Deadly Shootings, Explosions In Paris

[lotus503]

So you should point the finger at the chicago politicians, i say. The local guys don't give a rats ass, why should anyone else?


I don't disagree with you. Pull military to police chicago and many more to police the southern border.

The point I was referring to was about spending billions or trillions on another ground war in the middle east and really no effort or resource to solve our own issues surrounding murder and death.

 

[LegendKiller]

We have had 450 murders or so in Chicago alone this year.

So how many of that is urban terrorists killing each other?

How do you propose we "fix" that?

How about we start calling a spade a spade. Then we can do that with sanctuary cities and illegal immigrants. Then we can do that with radical islamists. Perhaps we can eliminate all of this PC liberal bullshit and get down to the problem.

Deal with shitheads, effectively, harshly, and stop letting them hide behind PC bullshit.

 

[JSt0rm]

So how many of that is urban terrorists killing each other?

How do you propose we "fix" that?

Not with opportunity and education.

 

[lotus503]

So how many of that is urban terrorists killing each other?

How do you propose we "fix" that?

I have no idea how many. how I would try and fix it would be determined by the amount of resource i had.

If I had the dollars and commitment to the tune of our MidEast adventures I'm sure I would come up with something.

 

[norseamd]

The point I was referring to was about spending billions or trillions on another ground war in the middle east and really no effort or resource to solve our own issues surrounding murder and death. You really have to follow the comments from the start or miss out on a ton of context.

That had less to do with a response and more to do with apathetic and exploitive politicians, bureaucrats, generals, and businessmen who made a mess of military operations.

You can do far smaller and more efficient operations than the years of war under the Bush administration.

 

[rudder]

Interesting, please provide a link to where said that about this attack or stop being an ignorant troll.

No need to provide a link dipshit. If you were worth my time I could post multiple examples of our useless president refusing to term this kind of incident as the act of Islamic extremists. Links going back all the way to the Ft Hood workplace violence incident.

 

[lotus503]

So how many of that is urban terrorists killing each other?

How do you propose we "fix" that?

How about we start calling a spade a spade. Then we can do that with sanctuary cities and illegal immigrants. Then we can do that with radical islamists. Perhaps we can eliminate all of this PC liberal bullshit and get down to the problem.

Deal with shitheads, effectively, harshly, and stop letting them hide behind PC bullshit.

While my knee jerk reaction is to agree with you, I don't imagine all involved got that way because they were born that way. I tend to think something in their life circumstance allowed the evil shit to flourish.

So I don't think spending trillions to just punish and kill is a real long term solution even if it would make you feel better.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I hope the backlash is immense, in particular against the German government for encouraging mass Muslim migration with their asinine OPEN BORDERS policy for MUSLIMS [of all people, are you fucking kidding me ? Most rational people knew something like this would happen].

Best case scenario for Europe - deport its Muslim population back to the shit holes they crawled out of.

When you look at us, humans, what most of us dream of is a world where we can live together in a good way. Expand to the stars, colonize and explore distant worlds.

Sadly events like this and reactions like yours make me think that will never happen. I'm not saying you're totally incorrect, but try and let kindness and reason win out, even if it's worse for you.

 

[lotus503]

That had less to do with a response and more to do with apathetic and exploitive politicians, bureaucrats, generals, and businessmen who made a mess of military operations.

You can do far smaller and more efficient operations than the years of war under the Bush administration.

My opinion is that were have been short sighted for far too long. The true cost of those types of wars/operations occur over generations.

How many terrorists for example have become terrorist since our invasion of Iraq? Seems to me we spent trillions to breed more terrorists and causes more problems then we solved.


Im not saying do nothing, I am saying waging these wars and simply killing people doesn't seem to be getting the job done.

 

[LegendKiller]

When you look at us, humans, what most of us dream of is a world where we can live together in a good way. Expand to the stars, colonize and explore distant worlds.

Sadly events like this and reactions like yours make me think that will never happen. I'm not saying you're totally incorrect, but try and let kindness and reason win out, even if it's worse for you.

Get rid of religion, or at least deal with extremists harshly, and you'll get that.

 

[LegendKiller]

While my knee jerk reaction is to agree with you, I don't imagine all involved got that way because they were born that way. I tend to think something in their life circumstance allowed the evil shit to flourish.

So I don't think spending trillions to just punish and kill is a real long term solution even if it would make you feel better.

Sure, but then if you want to stop the cycle you have to own up to your shortcomings and fix them.

Nobody wants to own up to the problems.

 

[Ichinisan]

Yeah, just a bunch of guys who threw this together within 24hrs.


Not.

I heard this attack was expected closer to the holidays, but was *possibly* moved-up as a response to Jihadi J.

 

[OCNewbie]

Irrelevant. And those killed in any large city cover a large variety of society.

Lotus was trying to equate the events in the ongoing attacks in Paris to the deaths in Chicago. I'm basing that on my assumption that the majority of those deaths in Chicago are gang related, and not merely people killing random strangers (correct me if I'm wrong). I disagree, and I do think it's relevant.

 

[peonyu]

When you look at us, humans, what most of us dream of is a world where we can live together in a good way. Expand to the stars, colonize and explore distant worlds.

Sadly events like this and reactions like yours make me think that will never happen. I'm not saying you're totally incorrect, but try and let kindness and reason win out, even if it's worse for you.

We will NEVER colonize the stars with backwards Muslims. Their culture and religion is the bastard child of Earth. Asians [Indians, East Asians etc] clearly mesh well with Western society overall, the stars can be colonized with those cultures, but Islam ? No ! It is to intolerant, its a cancer in any society it infects. The results speak for themselves, just look at Europe, that continent is dying before our very eyes ! How long before Sharia becomes dominant in one of the western European nations at this rate ? France is already 10% Muslim [from 0% a hundred years ago] and at their rate of growth, they will be 30% before 2050. And the terror attacks are becoming to common in Europe, Europe IS becoming colonized by the Middle East and is beginning to look like it both ethnically, religiously AND violence wise..

 

[lotus503]

Sure, but then if you want to stop the cycle you have to own up to your shortcomings and fix them.

Nobody wants to own up to the problems.

I don't disagree with that. But woudl also add its not just owning up to our own shortcoming but also understanding the shortcomings of others.


But then again humans have been killing each other since there were Humans, maybe were not at a point of evolution to override our genetics as a species.


I'm trying to do my part and not kill people, so far so good.

 

[rudder]

Obama should just stay on the golf course the remainder of his presidency...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/politics/obama-isis-contained-decapitated-abc-news/

 

[CZroe]

This has nothing to do with the US, it's the fucking French for fuck sake. There is no reason for any of this bullshit.


"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

When you get fundies who read this crap and the THOUSANDS of other lines just like it as literal this is the kind of crap we end up with.

"JV Team."

I don't know any of the people killed in Paris or Chicago. I don't know the breakdown of good vs bad people or what your benchmark for either is.



The only thing im sure of is Murder is when another person takes someone elses life without permission.



But while your wanting to quantify the value of human life, lets go a step further and place the monetary value on it.



Thousands murdered here in the US every year and we don't want to put resource into alleviating that problem. But folks are willing to put trillions into stopping terrorist attacks, which by in large are far lower in number.





So if were going to assign value to human life where are the dollars better spent?

The number of Americans killed by terrorism is only so low because of the dollars spent, so unless you have better statistics then you don't have a point.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

While my knee jerk reaction is to agree with you, I don't imagine all involved got that way because they were born that way. I tend to think something in their life circumstance allowed the evil shit to flourish.

So I don't think spending trillions to just punish and kill is a real long term solution even if it would make you feel better.

Enforcing our immigration laws isn't punishment it is preserving the core values of our society, i.e. "Rule of Law" and neither is having standards on who is allowed into this country versus who we keep out.

Yes, you have to keep out certain people even if the PC crybabies say otherwise because they love burying their heads in the sand.

The sad part is just how blind the left has become to pragmatic thinking. Hell, about 1 month ago in SF the board of supervisors decreed that there was nothing wrong with the sanctuary policy that was used to prevent a felon from being deported and which as a result contributed to the death of Kathryn Steinle by an illegal immigrant who had past felonies but again was released because of that insane policy.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Supervisors-say-SF-s-sanctuary-city-policies-6580287.php

I won't even get into the details of the Bologna family mass murders in SF at the hands of a illegal alien gang banger who was later found out to be under investigation by the FBI for another murder he was suspected of committing.

 

[lotus503]

Lotus was trying to equate the events in the ongoing attacks in Paris to the deaths in Chicago. I'm basing that on my assumption that the majority of those deaths in Chicago are gang related, and not merely people killing random strangers (correct me if I'm wrong). I disagree, and I do think it's relevant.

Not really, you have to read further back, the point I was really going after is that spending billions or trillions on the war on terror seems like wasted resources given we have a lot of murder and death here.


I was responding to a post that stated we should own up to causing some of these issues and send ground troops to the mideast because of it. (Clean up our mess). I simply woudl rather spend the money on preventing murder and death in the US. I thinks it a better use of resources.

 

[norseamd]

Like I said earlier these were not some small fry running these terrorist attacks.

 

[OCNewbie]

So if were going to assign value to human life where are the dollars better spent?

I believe the life of a gang member destined for the prison system or an early death via the activities they choose to partake in is worth much less than a person performing the typically useful and beneficial actions of a productive member of society (working at a job, paying taxes, not victimizing others, etc.). If terrorists were going to attack Americans, they're not going to go after gang members, because they know that most people don't value the life of a gang member as much as the other type of citizen I described.

 

[lotus503]

Enforcing our immigration laws isn't punishment it is preserving the core values of our society, i.e. is "Rule of Law" and neither is having standards on who is allowed into this country versus who we keep out.

Yes, you have to keep out certain people even if the PC crybabies say otherwise because they love burying their heads in the sand.

The sad part is just how blind the left has become to pragmatic thinking. Hell, about 1 month ago in SF the board of supervisors decreed that there was nothing wrong with the sanctuary policy that was used to prevent a felon from being deported and which as a result contributed to the death of Katherine Steinle by an illegal immigrant who had past felons but again was released because of that insane policy.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Supervisors-say-SF-s-sanctuary-city-policies-6580287.php

I won't even get into the details of the Bologna family mass murders in SF at the hands of a illegal alien gang banger who was later found out to be under investigation by the FBI for another murder he was suspected of committing.

While I don't know if I agree with your proposed measures, I would rather spend the money and resources here in the United states vs another Mideast. war. It sounds to me like you agree with that given your proposing spending money here too.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

We will NEVER colonize the stars with backwards Muslims. Their culture and religion is the bastard child of Earth. Asians [Indians, East Asians etc] clearly mesh well with Western society overall, the stars can be colonized with those cultures, but Islam ? No ! It is to intolerant, its a cancer in any society it infects. The results speak for themselves, just look at Europe, that continent is dying before our very eyes ! How long before Sharia becomes dominant in one of the western European nations at this rate ? France is already 10% Muslim [from 0% a hundred years ago] and at their rate of growth, they will be 30% before 2050. And the terror attacks are becoming to common in Europe, Europe IS becoming colonized by the Middle East and is beginning to look like it both ethnically, religiously AND violence wise..

Very well, there is no correct answer here.

Get rid of religion, or at least deal with extremists harshly, and you'll get that.

Killing them will just result in more popping up. Someone will always have a twisted view of the world, and they can always explain away other's actions as attacks on their beliefs, whether religious or not.
Make it better, maybe. Fix it, sadly not.

 

[lotus503]

If terrorists were going to attack Americans, they're not going to go after gang members. And yes, I believe the life of a gang member destined for the prison system or an early death via the activities they choose to partake in is worth much less than a person performing the typically useful and beneficial actions of a productive member of society (working at a job, paying taxes, not victimizing others, etc.).

How much more? thats sort of my point if were assigning value to life then assign the value and then we can do the math and see whats more beneficial to spend money on. My hunch is it isn't conflict in the middle east, but without knowing your numbers I cant be sure.

 

[OCNewbie]

How much more? thats sort of my point if were assigning value to life then assign the value and them we can do the math and see whats more beneficial to spend money on. My hunch is it isn't conflict in the middle east, but without knowing your numbers I cant be sure.

Maybe I got into the discussion too late. I don't think I'm informed enough to have an opinion on whether or not the U.S. is spending too much or too little in the middle east fighting terrorism.