My confirmation email doesnt say anything about the product giveaways.
Edit: If they are truely time limited that is stupid. They used to give away NFR copies.
Edit: If they are truely time limited that is stupid. They used to give away NFR copies.
Hot deal but seminars I'd be interested in attending are already Full in Seattle. Thanks for the post though!
Originally posted by: Ktulu
I received a reminder email a couple days ago and noticed this:
so far, the only other email i got from them speaks of a Joint Launch Event and its sweepstakes: Ford Fusion or Xbox Elite. i'm more interested in the Windows Server 2008 disc than anything else, but if any of those progs they will give away turns out to be trialware, i'll be utterly disappointed at MS. makes it look like they are gathering a bunch of 4th graders and giving them free soda....
i guess the only way to confirm this is emailing them and asking.
There is an extended discussion of this here:
Using Windows Server 2008 as a SUPER workstation OS
http://blogs.msdn.com/vijaysk/...-super-desktop-os.aspx
Im using as a desktop right now... there are things to watch out for (64 bit SIGNED!! drivers only), etc.
What just caught my eye was the "Enterprise" part of the note above giveaways. Early the discussion was assuming it would be Standard. I put Standard on -- it's easy to move Eval Standard to Licensed Standard...
What just caught my eye was the "Enterprise" part of the note above giveaways. Early the discussion was assuming it would be Standard. I put Standard on -- it's easy to move Eval Standard to Licensed Standard...
this feature can be disabled on Vista, right? so maybe it can be disabled on Server 2008 too.... i know such move undermines the security of the OS, but what else can one do if a needed driver isnt available as signed....
i'm confused. what you mean?
Mr. Lennon
Diamond Member
- Jul 2, 2004
- 3,492
- 1
- 81
You can disable it in Server 2008 too, at least as a per-boot (F8) option. I would also assume, but have not yet tested, that test signing still works too (which is what I'm doing in Vista x64 right now, but takes a bit of work to set up).
As far as totally disabling it (with no need to test sign drivers or press F8 at every boot), they seem to have removed that several months back in Vista x64 updates, so I would venture to say that it's not possible to do in Server 2008 either (but again, I've not tested it to be sure).
That's the one that recent Windows Updates (for Vista x64) have disabled. Since Server 2008 is mostly equivalent to Vista SP1 as far as the kernel is concerned, that's my basis for the assumption that it won't work in either anymore.
I signed up for one of these events. It took about 9 days or so to get the email confirmation of my registration back (they say it may take up to 10 days in the registration web site).
I'm of somewhat mixed feelings about the software give-away; in a promotional thing from one year ago they gave away free Office 2007 Pro. and Vista Business both NFR licenses, and the Office was a download, no physical media was given.
That was nice (though really one sort of had to wait for SP1 which just came out before one could really USE either very well).
The not so nice thing is that (in the PAST promition -- I'm not sure what they intend to do NOW) they sent out a 1099 income tax form reporting $800 of 'income' given to you from Microsoft as the 'value' of the gifts. While it is expected and proper to send a 1099 in such circumstances, they valued the products at a cost HIGHER than the actual cost of FULL RETAIL products that would NOT be limited by a NFR condition, and one would get the packaging / manuals / install disc. etc with the full retail versions while you get none of that with the give-aways.
So I can only speculate that there may be some pricing / 1099 shenanigans going on with respect to this offer; I'd really hate to see something like $3000 dollars or whatever arbitrary figure they pull out of their hat reported as income for software which is likely going to be Not-Resellable, and according to a previous posted a time limited 'evaluation' copy in at least one case. I think they should be straightforward about what the EULA terms of these give-aways are right upfront, AND list any specifically taxable value that they're intending to attribute to them also right from the start.
AFAIK it is up to them to set the 'value' of any copy of software they produce, so there's no legal reason they couldn't just say, well these are NFR copies, without media, without support, so we're saying they're worth $5 a piece tax value or whatever and not have it appear to be some outrageously expensive item on the taxes of many people who'll never put the software to real commercial use but will use them as personal learning tools or whatever.
If they DID end up reporting this stuff as a REAL 1099 tax value of $3000 or whatever, then that means that you might end up paying $1000 REAL dollars in taxes on your 'free' software not all of which may really be worth that much money to you if you're just experimenting / learning with it. At those kinds of hypothetical rates it'd be cheaper and more valuable to just buy a TechNet / MSDN subscription or whatever and get to evaluate the full versions of the softwares without paying that kind of tax hit.
The REASON they value things at high or inflated rates above MSRP is that then they get to take a tax write-off for the 'full value' of promotional software they gave away for 'marketing' purposes.
On the other hand maybe they're going to be reasonable and value any NFR / no-media / no-support software at levels MUCH less than retail MSRP, and maybe since the Server 2008 is (according to the poster above) a trial version it'll be considered as zero taxable value or whatever. In that case we can all enjoy our learning experience and educational software without having to wonder whether we just went broke getting 'free' NFR software.
In my case I'd be interested in Server 2008 as a learning platform for administration and experimentation, but I can't see how it'd ever be worth major bucks to *me personally*, though I might recommend it to a client or something like that if it works well and makes sense for their needs.
Same deal for SQL server; I'd recommend it to a client / business where appropriate but for my personal needs, eh, Postgres, MySQL, or the free SQL Express versions will probably do just fine.
I'd be most personally interested in VS2008 Standard or whatever just because I do like to keep up on my development skills and have some projects I'd like to write with it that wouldn't work as well in Express.
I'm of somewhat mixed feelings about the software give-away; in a promotional thing from one year ago they gave away free Office 2007 Pro. and Vista Business both NFR licenses, and the Office was a download, no physical media was given.
That was nice (though really one sort of had to wait for SP1 which just came out before one could really USE either very well).
The not so nice thing is that (in the PAST promition -- I'm not sure what they intend to do NOW) they sent out a 1099 income tax form reporting $800 of 'income' given to you from Microsoft as the 'value' of the gifts. While it is expected and proper to send a 1099 in such circumstances, they valued the products at a cost HIGHER than the actual cost of FULL RETAIL products that would NOT be limited by a NFR condition, and one would get the packaging / manuals / install disc. etc with the full retail versions while you get none of that with the give-aways.
So I can only speculate that there may be some pricing / 1099 shenanigans going on with respect to this offer; I'd really hate to see something like $3000 dollars or whatever arbitrary figure they pull out of their hat reported as income for software which is likely going to be Not-Resellable, and according to a previous posted a time limited 'evaluation' copy in at least one case. I think they should be straightforward about what the EULA terms of these give-aways are right upfront, AND list any specifically taxable value that they're intending to attribute to them also right from the start.
AFAIK it is up to them to set the 'value' of any copy of software they produce, so there's no legal reason they couldn't just say, well these are NFR copies, without media, without support, so we're saying they're worth $5 a piece tax value or whatever and not have it appear to be some outrageously expensive item on the taxes of many people who'll never put the software to real commercial use but will use them as personal learning tools or whatever.
If they DID end up reporting this stuff as a REAL 1099 tax value of $3000 or whatever, then that means that you might end up paying $1000 REAL dollars in taxes on your 'free' software not all of which may really be worth that much money to you if you're just experimenting / learning with it. At those kinds of hypothetical rates it'd be cheaper and more valuable to just buy a TechNet / MSDN subscription or whatever and get to evaluate the full versions of the softwares without paying that kind of tax hit.
The REASON they value things at high or inflated rates above MSRP is that then they get to take a tax write-off for the 'full value' of promotional software they gave away for 'marketing' purposes.
On the other hand maybe they're going to be reasonable and value any NFR / no-media / no-support software at levels MUCH less than retail MSRP, and maybe since the Server 2008 is (according to the poster above) a trial version it'll be considered as zero taxable value or whatever. In that case we can all enjoy our learning experience and educational software without having to wonder whether we just went broke getting 'free' NFR software.
In my case I'd be interested in Server 2008 as a learning platform for administration and experimentation, but I can't see how it'd ever be worth major bucks to *me personally*, though I might recommend it to a client or something like that if it works well and makes sense for their needs.
Same deal for SQL server; I'd recommend it to a client / business where appropriate but for my personal needs, eh, Postgres, MySQL, or the free SQL Express versions will probably do just fine.
I'd be most personally interested in VS2008 Standard or whatever just because I do like to keep up on my development skills and have some projects I'd like to write with it that wouldn't work as well in Express.
let me see if i understand you.... they claimed that your NFR copies of Office 2007 Pro & Vista Business -- together -- were valued at $800 and they represented an income...?
isnt the purpose of the 1099 form to tax freelancers (who are not employees but are paid on a "per job" basis) for services they sporadically provide? to me, this sounds logic and fair since it's real "income" (money) for a real job done (ie, the provided service). although a giveaway has monetary value, attendees of those events are not providing any services to MS.... i mean, if the programs were being given to the attendee's "employer", then that would be a diff story, since such business would most definitely make use of the giveaway to generate revenue.... well, i'm probably wrong, but this is the way i see it....
exactly! however, since they are totally ninja, they will not. there is, however, a mention to possible taxation on their site... i just noticed it: Taxes, if any, are the sole responsibility of the recipient.
that's exactly what i had in mind: "personal use"! if they are really going to appraise the combined software (NFR or not) at a value above $100, i'll elect to stay home. after all, the only program i really care for is Server 2008 (once again, for personal use!) and i'm more than fine with my free Express Edition of Visual C# 2005.... yes, 2005! :beer:
//can't program for sh!te
Yes, indeed, that's exactly what they did. I believe the rule is that any gifts made by a corporation to someone are considered taxable income to the recipient, and if the value is over $600 in any given year, the giver of those gifts must report the value and the recipient to the IRS as a 1099.
And if they gave away fully supported, resellable, retail versions of all the products then I suppose claiming MSRP as the value would be at least understandable. But not if they're not including media, support, are NFR, or may be time limited, non-upgradable, or whatever other restrictions may exist.
I can tell you that I've never seen anyone get a 1099 from past "events" on the things they gave out, though typically they'd only give out one major thing (e.g. VS2005) and maybe in that case the MSRP was low enough that they didn't have to 1099 it anyway.
The only time I've seen the tax thing happen was a year ago in that promotion I mentioned, though since that was the most recent giveaway they've done that I know of / was involved in, I can only speculate they may do the same now and in the future if it's a new policy / trend / whatever.
Good catch, I missed seeing that entirely... Though as you said, they're being a bit ambiguous about it, they should specifically state any EULA restrictions AND the exact taxable values for whatever they're giving away so people aren't taken by surprise or misled by thinking they're getting something they're not.
Really it's all a bit of a 'game'... what makes VS2008 EXPRESS edition = FREE, whereas STANDARD edition is $500 or whatever it may be MSRP, it does Intellisense context sensitive help system, lets you program Windows Mobile PDAs, can accept a couple of plug-in add-ons, and otherwise they're identical. So they can really call anything any value they want since there's no real sense in it given that example.
That's exactly the way I feel about it. I'll gladly take all the free or inexpensive software I can get as a personal learning / exploration / testing resource. But if it's going to cost substantial money in cost or in taxes, I'd have to have a justifiable business need that made sure I'd be profiting off of that specific software as opposed to it just being something that "might" be useful one day.
The VS2005 is pretty decent and is certainly mostly all you'll need for general programming. It has a few compatibility problems with Vista that are only partly resolved by its only service pack. Its support for .NET 3.0 / .NET 3.5 / WPF / WCF / LINQ / similar is either limited (partial beta level) or nonexistent; not really a problem unless you use Vista and/or are specifically wanting to develop with those new APIs and versions. Otherwise you can do basically everything you need in .NET 2.0.
There is VS2008 express free for download now that has better support for those new APIs and running on Vista etc. etc. otherwise you're not missing much.
Since I'm running Vista 64 now, and occasionally do mobile (PDA) device programming (express doesn't do that), I figured a real copy of VS2008 would be nice to get, and also for learning the new NET 3.x APIs.
i was just told that the people presenting the Oscars get a basket with mementos (cells, iPods, etc) from the Academy....and a few years ago Uncle Sam cought up with this practice and requested all the mementos to be declared....
i havent verified the story, but i found it interesting and on topic.... now i wont be surprised if MS does send someone a 1099. i'd still expect them to be fair about the estimated value of their half-baked giveaways.which made me wonder if an attendee could choose to only accept one of the 3 giveaways, thus keeping the total cost of the endevour below the aforementioned $600 mark...(?) well, in order to cut the guessing down a little, i decided to call the event's Registration Team and inquire about the giveaways. here is what i was planning to ask:
1) will any of the giveaways be a "Trial-Time-Limited" version?
2) will they be Regular, NFR, RC or CTP editions?
3) what is the individual value of each program?
4) will MS send 1099 forms to attendees?
5) will the attendee be able to pick which of the 3 programs to accept?
well, according to the guy who took my call, the giveaway programs will be Trial versions and they will expire. after hearing that, i decided that the other 4 questions were no longer relevant. i believe it would be good if someone else -- who cared enough -- emailed them or gave them a call to double-check any of those things. in cases like this, it's not uncommon to get different answers from different reps. their Toll-Free number is on the very first email they sent.
Thank you for following up on the questions to try and get some concrete answers for us all. I hadn't assumed they'd have any straight answers to give about the software or its possible valuation since usually they haven't been well informed about that in the past when I've asked. I'll see if I can get some clarification on this to support the information you've collected.
If the phone rep. was correct that they're ALL time limited trials, that's a bit disappointing to me, especially considering that at least in part those are already easily obtainable, and so aren't much of an added "perk" for going to the event when interested parties probably already would have downloaded the trial / demo / pre-release versions.
It'd be better if they were just all unlimited time duration licenses but perhaps with NFR conditions and perhaps lack of tech. support or whatever, and $0 nominal valuation.
It is even more perplexing why they wouldn't give such gifts (if they're basically the same as the time limited demos anyone can download FREE from their www site now) to employees of government / educational institutions et. al. since giving away something that's free anyway certainly doesn't seem to be a sensibly prohibited gift that would incite corruption lol.
I'm hoping / suspecting that they gave you the wrong information about them all being demo. versions, I guess we'll know when we ask further for confirmation and especially after people start coming back from these late February events and tell the rest of us what they actually got and whether there are any special details we should know about this.
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition ISO image or individual downloads.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...8461ee0&DisplayLang=en
Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (90-day Trial)
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...db0192b&DisplayLang=en
Windows Server 2008 Release Candidate 1 Enterprise with Hyper-V Beta
This time-limited release of Windows Server® 2008 Release Candidate will expire on June 30, 2008. After this time, you will need to uninstall the software or upgrade to a later release or a fully-licensed version of Windows Server® 2008.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...b354919&DisplayLang=en
Microsoft SQL Server 2008 CTP, February 2008
Brief Description
Download the latest SQL Server 2008 Community Technology Preview (CTP) and try out the latest features of SQL Server 2008! The SQL Server development team uses your CTP feedback to help refine and enhance product features. Download it today and send your feedback.
Microsoft SQL Server 2008, the next release of Microsoft SQL Server, provides a comprehensive data platform that is more secure, reliable, manageable and scalable for your mission critical applications, while enabling developers to create new applications that can store and consume any type of data on any device, and enabling all your users to make informed decisions with relevant insights.
This CTP will automatically expire after 180 days.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...3ed1053&DisplayLang=en
If the phone rep. was correct that they're ALL time limited trials, that's a bit disappointing to me, especially considering that at least in part those are already easily obtainable, and so aren't much of an added "perk" for going to the event when interested parties probably already would have downloaded the trial / demo / pre-release versions.
It'd be better if they were just all unlimited time duration licenses but perhaps with NFR conditions and perhaps lack of tech. support or whatever, and $0 nominal valuation.
It is even more perplexing why they wouldn't give such gifts (if they're basically the same as the time limited demos anyone can download FREE from their www site now) to employees of government / educational institutions et. al. since giving away something that's free anyway certainly doesn't seem to be a sensibly prohibited gift that would incite corruption lol.
I'm hoping / suspecting that they gave you the wrong information about them all being demo. versions, I guess we'll know when we ask further for confirmation and especially after people start coming back from these late February events and tell the rest of us what they actually got and whether there are any special details we should know about this.
Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition ISO image or individual downloads.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...8461ee0&DisplayLang=en
Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition (90-day Trial)
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...db0192b&DisplayLang=en
Windows Server 2008 Release Candidate 1 Enterprise with Hyper-V Beta
This time-limited release of Windows Server® 2008 Release Candidate will expire on June 30, 2008. After this time, you will need to uninstall the software or upgrade to a later release or a fully-licensed version of Windows Server® 2008.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...b354919&DisplayLang=en
Microsoft SQL Server 2008 CTP, February 2008
Brief Description
Download the latest SQL Server 2008 Community Technology Preview (CTP) and try out the latest features of SQL Server 2008! The SQL Server development team uses your CTP feedback to help refine and enhance product features. Download it today and send your feedback.
Microsoft SQL Server 2008, the next release of Microsoft SQL Server, provides a comprehensive data platform that is more secure, reliable, manageable and scalable for your mission critical applications, while enabling developers to create new applications that can store and consume any type of data on any device, and enabling all your users to make informed decisions with relevant insights.
This CTP will automatically expire after 180 days.
http://www.microsoft.com/downl...3ed1053&DisplayLang=en
Originally posted by: nordloewelabs
i was just told that the people presenting the Oscars get a basket with mementos (cells, iPods, etc) from the Academy....and a few years ago Uncle Sam cought up with this practice and requested all the mementos to be declared....
which made me wonder if an attendee could choose to only accept one of the 3 giveaways, thus keeping the total cost of the endevour below the aforementioned $600 mark...(?) well, in order to cut the guessing down a little, i decided to call the event's Registration Team and inquire about the giveaways. here is what i was planning to ask:
1) will any of the giveaways be a "Trial-Time-Limited" version?
2) will they be Regular, NFR, RC or CTP editions?
3) what is the individual value of each program?
4) will MS send 1099 forms to attendees?
5) will the attendee be able to pick which of the 3 programs to accept?
well, according to the guy who took my call, the giveaway programs will be Trial versions and they will expire. after hearing that, i decided that the other 4 questions were no longer relevant. i believe it would be good if someone else -- who cared enough -- emailed them or gave them a call to double-check any of those things. in cases like this, it's not uncommon to get different answers from different reps. their Toll-Free number is on the very first email they sent.
The software that Microsoft is giving out is NOT a limited trial or have any expiration date. They are the full featured software. Whenever I received any software from Microsoft after attending their seminars, it always has been the full featured software. The seminar in 2007, Microsoft handed out full feature Vista Ultima and Office 2007 with Grove. These are not trial software and no limitations either. So if you attend this seminar, you get all the software . There is no 1099's either. You'll end up with the full versions of Windows Server® 2008 operating system, Microsoft® SQL Server® 2008, and Microsoft Visual Studio® 2008. It's a great deal for attending a 1 day seminar. It's well worth taking a day off. Good luck everyone !
i've done some Googling on which software versions will be given away.... it seems that some ppl who have attended past events have got trial versions, others have got CTPs or RTMs. some of those who got CTPs, managed to download RTMs from MSDN later on, then they used the license from the event's "giveaway" to register the RTM.
i was reading the info on the Microsoft Compliance with Government Gift and Ethics Rules page and spotted some interesting stuff in it. here goes a quick excerpt:
to read the whole enchilada, check out the link ("government rules") on your Registration Confirmation email.... incidentally, i also found this informative blog about the software versions on MSDN.
i was reading the info on the Microsoft Compliance with Government Gift and Ethics Rules page and spotted some interesting stuff in it. here goes a quick excerpt:
to read the whole enchilada, check out the link ("government rules") on your Registration Confirmation email.... incidentally, i also found this informative blog about the software versions on MSDN.
Ktulu
Diamond Member
- Dec 16, 2000
- 4,354
- 0
- 0
No, I got completely different emails from those folks, seriously.
All very non-specific stuff about the licenses / software / valuations / whatever.
And from the web site:
And another generic newsletter email:
Indeed I remember hearing about that kind of stuff on at least two occasions. Some people were getting vista ultimate Beta / CTP Discs and keys, others got no such things. I was looking to see if they'd be giving that away at the event I went to and there were none of the Vista discs at all anywhere.
Honestly I think these events are sort of thrown together by somewhat independent teams of people for different locations and whatever they happen to be able to grab as a demo / freebie they may or may not have available at any given event. In the Vista Ultimate case I think they were just trying to get rid of old stock of CTP/Beta discs they had a bunch of. Some of the stuff was given out by MS Partner companies exhibiting at the shows. Even the stuff directly given out by Microsoft seems to vary depending on the event you go to.
Also I think they probably have some kind of bus that road-trips among various events, so I imagine if they run out of certain things at one event the people at the next event may not get those things e.g. demo discs or flashing pens or whatever.
I assume they more carefully kit up the 'main' stuff they say they're giving out to make sure there's enough for everyone who registered, but even then, they may be drawing from different stocks of discs / key cards or whatever so I suppose it's possible that some are CTP / Beta / Trial, some not, etc. Sometimes nothing they publish is super specific about the version / license of the stuff.
That's interesting stuff, good find. Though I suppose even that doesn't mean that the exact experience you get won't vary with which show you go to. I think someone said the show they were registered for was a full day thing, whereas in smaller towns I've seen them have just half-day events with less tracks of informational presentations than in the big cities. Also less give-aways too at least in a couple of cases.
i think the emails they send depend on where you will be attending the Launch Event. i have only got 2 emails from them so far. the 1st was the Registration confirmation; the 2nd was about a sweepstakes in which the prizes would be a Ford and an Xbox.
btw, i called the Event Team once more and again i was told "the progs will be Trials and they will expire"....( ! ) maybe the rep was misinformed, maybe not. if any of the lads here is attending the LA event tomorrow (aka Wed 27th), please make a quick "report" once you're back home.
btw, i called the Event Team once more and again i was told "the progs will be Trials and they will expire"....( ! ) maybe the rep was misinformed, maybe not. if any of the lads here is attending the LA event tomorrow (aka Wed 27th), please make a quick "report" once you're back home.
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