LOL, Colorado did it, and we aren't anything special.
I'll bet Obama won't do it, because he loves being in control. He's a Socialist.
-John
In that, you support maintenance of a criminal supply chain & policing for profit.
If you were really a physician, you'd recognize the difference between correlation & causation.
It's not necessary to see any benefits, but rather to see that the harms of prohibition outweigh the benefits many times over.
You sure as Hell haven't addressed the rational arguments. Nor do you even care that they exist.
I am in favor of the minimum criminality necessary to deter expansion of rates of marijuana use to what I believe are a vulnerable population.
Then we should ban alcohol (again) and tobacco. the vulnerable population does need these addictive and harmful things.
Sure.
Uhm. Please tell me where the confounder is. I'm happy to admit that the research is not conclusive. I don't care. Almost no research in medicine is conclusive. It's the evidence we have, and the evidence is scary on my critical review of it. Some physicians take a different stance.
I pick the number 108883. It's not necessary to know what number you pick, just to see that that my number is really big and thus outweighs yours many times over. That's pretty dumb. There was a time where the housing market was in a boom. And we made laws that allowed people who did not usually qualify for loans become homeowners. And we even got interest rates so low that they were below prime. And it was easy to use mortgages in the finance game, because after all houses always went up in value over time. What could go wrong?
Just because one thing is readily apparent to you, does not mean that nothing else could be important, and even not become apparent until it is a major problem.
Sure I have, but I'll do so more formally if you wish.
1. I agree that the economic impact of legalization of marijuana would be good. Cost of imprisonment for marijuana related offenses is high, and it is ineffective at stopping the use of marijuana.
2. I agree that marijuana use should not be an offense which involves prison time. Nothing gained for that.
3. I agree that there are some limited legitimate medical uses of marijuana.
4. I agree that the DEA scheduling of marijuana limits cannabis & derivatives research, and it would be good to do more.
5. I agree that legalization of marijuana would lead to less imprisonment on the supply side of things, and probably therefore less ancillary (and sometimes violent) crimes in this country and others. I don't support it, but I agree it would happen.
6. I agree that the government has their hands in our business too often. They have a precedent for doing so, but it is often not very effective at acting in the best interest of the public, and certainly costs $ to do so
7. I disagree that criminalization of marijuana is racist. I do agree that arrests are unequally distributed among the races, and that racism absolutely plays a role in this. I do agree that legalization of marijuana would change the numbers a little bit, I merely disagree that these laws have anything to do with the underlying problem. And relieving this symptom won't address that problem.
There ya go. I think I addressed formally my stance on all of the arguments in favor of legalization posited here.
It's my belief that there is compelling cons of marijuana to the public that outweigh 1-7 above, and thus I am in favor of the minimum criminality necessary to deter expansion of rates of marijuana use to what I believe are a vulnerable population.
Sure what? Sure that you support the criminal underworld's control of the distribution of cannabis? Sure that you support swat teams in the middle of the night enforcing that? Sure that you support civil forfeiture by people transporting small quantities or growing their own in the privacy of their homes?
Diversional bullshit.
You have merely provided that cannabis use among teens may (may!) precede development of schizophrenia. You fail to account for the idea that people with a variety of mental problems will attempt to self medicate with cannabis use merely being one way to do that. Other than that, you offer no "cons" at all.
The minimum criminality necessary to deter use among the supposedly vulnerable population, teens, is to make it illegal to provide it to them, something that the legalization movement supports.
1. I agree that the economic impact of legalization of marijuana would be good. Cost of imprisonment for marijuana related offenses is high, and it is ineffective at stopping the use of marijuana.
2. I agree that marijuana use should not be an offense which involves prison time. Nothing gained for that.
3. I agree that there are some limited legitimate medical uses of marijuana.
4. I agree that the DEA scheduling of marijuana limits cannabis & derivatives research, and it would be good to do more.
5. I agree that legalization of marijuana would lead to less imprisonment on the supply side of things, and probably therefore less ancillary (and sometimes violent) crimes in this country and others. I don't support it, but I agree it would happen.
6. I agree that the government has their hands in our business too often. They have a precedent for doing so, but it is often not very effective at acting in the best interest of the public, and certainly costs $ to do so
7. I disagree that criminalization of marijuana is racist. I do agree that arrests are unequally distributed among the races, and that racism absolutely plays a role in this. I do agree that legalization of marijuana would change the numbers a little bit, I merely disagree that these laws have anything to do with the underlying problem. And relieving this symptom won't address that problem.
There ya go. I think I addressed formally my stance on all of the arguments in favor of legalization posited here.
It's my belief that there is compelling cons of marijuana to the public that outweigh 1-7 above, and thus I am in favor of the minimum criminality necessary to deter expansion of rates of marijuana use to what I believe are a vulnerable population.
Regarding other negative consequences of cannabis use, you're a dolt. You don't need me to tell you them. If you choose not to believe everything that's published (addiction, cognitive impairment, low testosterone, impairment in motor function/driving) then I doubt there's much more I can say here. More controversial are pulmonary, cardiac, and cancer risks which are best described as unknown but not likely large.
Poor Louisiana. I am in no way in favor of prison time for possession of Marijuana, and I think a rational approach is in ticketing for possession (also a much better financial alternative).
The only reason I want cannabis to remain illegal is for it to be a sufficient deterrent for people who might consider using it regularly from trying or increasing usage. I don't feel that legislation has any effect on people who have already made the decision to regularly consume cannabis.
The basis of my feeling so strongly is because I want to prevent schizophrenia, and the people who are harmed by cannabis in this fashion are typically doing so without knowledge of risks, and at a time in their lives when legally and developmentally they don't have full capacity to act on said knowledge. And that there is no opportunity for secondary prevention after the risk has been incurred.
You don't have to agree. In all other matters, I am not a fan of cannabis because I see no benefit in its common use, and potential for harm. Usually not big harm, but harm nonetheless. Where we balance that with individual liberty and financial implications in policing and / or taxing its use is more arbitrary to me, and deals more with the role of government in our lives than it has to do with cannabis itself.
I am only pursuing statements made in this thread in support of cannabis legalization when the rationale behind them is flawed, and the arguments made do not consider the totality of evidence for or against cannabis. I don't care if you feel pros outweigh cons.
I do think, though, that our society ought to be more able to look at evidence for controversial topics a bit more objectively before clearly stating that one action is right and another is wrong.
You are trying to protect certain people from themselves, which is noble as a profession. I have a friend in the same profession, but he doesn't share your view of criminalization.
However, the crux of your position is that you are an altruistic authoritarian. You would ban things for everyone in order to protect a few from their own poor choices.
In doing that, you are inevitably harming many others, and your statements are dismissive of this.
There are a great many others that do not suffer any notable negative effects beyond the existing risks of modern living, do understand the potential, and have made a choice to do this.
I'm a Coloradan, and being from the West, we tend to be more libertarian, which means adults get to make choices for themselves as well as be responsible for the consequences.
I have seen a great many people who have toked. Some do it responsibly, and others take it too far. Some rarely, some more than that, and others too much. I have not seen any of these people destroy their lives over it and find themselves unable to stop.
I have seen plenty of over indulgers do decide they've had enough, want to move on, and easily do so.
The rare number I have seen who are truly out of control and not turning around are not failing solely due to the weed. They have been people that engage in many risky behaviors, and this is just one more manifestation of that, and let's be honest, if it wasn't the weed, it would be likely something else.
So for the small number of those, we have criminalization and the destruction of countless more lives and livelihoods of reasonable, responsible adults who are doing nothing more than enjoying a pleasure in life.
There also needs to be a change in IRS rule that says that companies whose business is selling marijuana and related paraphernalia cannot deduct the cost of doing business when computing their profit (all that can be deducted is the cost of the MJ and paraphernalia). This has the effect of driving up retail MJ prices in "legal" states, decreasing the effectiveness of legalization in eliminating the black market.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-marijuana-reschedule_us_5704567de4b0537661881644
Place your bets. I would like to believe that the Obama admin will finally make this right.
There also needs to be a change in IRS rule that says that companies whose business is selling marijuana and related paraphernalia cannot deduct the cost of doing business when computing their profit (all that can be deducted is the cost of the MJ and paraphernalia). This has the effect of driving up retail MJ prices in "legal" states, decreasing the effectiveness of legalization in eliminating the black market.
I do not care if an adult chooses to use marijuana unless they are putting others in danger in so doing.
“There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others.”
“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”
If you are purchasing marijuana in a place where it is legal to do so, is it hard to know whether it's done legally or illegally?
But we should keep that illegal & prevent legal supply chains because of a poorly understood "link" between cannabis & schizophrenia among teen users. As if the war on marijuana has been even slightly effective in reducing teen use. OTOH, controls at the retail level are relatively effective at preventing teen acquisition of alcohol & tobacco.
You seem to think that there was some honest reason cannabis was made illegal in the first place. There never was. As the original rationalization fell out of favor authoritarians like yourself filled in with ever shifting fear mongering as required.
Why was it made illegal in 1937? In the words of the original Anti Marijuana crusader, Harry Anslinger-
White America was unabashedly racist back then & cannabis law enforcement serves as an instrument of racial oppression to this day, unsurprisingly.
@ interchange, I get the impression you focus on symptoms and believe addiction is a matter of degrees. Perhaps I'm misreading what you're saying but in my observation of patients in chronic pain the use of pot has far greater benefits than downsides. Again, in my observation addicts have a fundamental difference in perspective and behavior which is not learned through exposure to and use of pot but exacerbated existing mental defects. I've come to this conclusion through close observation of elderly patients and prison populations. It is a poor coping strategy to deny the public access to a drug with many advantages in order to protect the young by replacing good parenting with legislation or, a doomed to failure attempt to reduce addiction.
