Dave Baumann of Beyond3D joins ATI

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Specifically, how did Nvidia cheat? And how did ATI cheat? And how did each company react to getting caught? If you want to be fair, we should be comparing the details of each situation instead of instead of simply making a general statement implying equivalency.

No we shouldn't, this isn't the thread for that.

Also, I'm thinking you're trying to make something out of nothing, with all do respect. Your post has no point, other than the desire for a momentous debate. I withdraw myself from such a rehash, but encourage you to take it elsewhere, granted you are greatly invested in this particular issue.

 

[kylebisme]

My investment is in fairness here. If you don't want to be fair, there was no reason for you to try and claim otherwise.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Congrats and good luck Dave. :beer: Don't feeeze your unit off up thar1

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
My investment is in fairness here. If you don't want to be fair, there was no reason for you to try and claim otherwise.

Please object to any of my statements involving both ATI and nVidia using cheating methods in the past, and both sides stooping low when it came to tactics they used.

You're the one with the problem of me saying "To be fair, both teams had their own cheating methods," so it's up to you to refute that asservation, not me to further elaborate on something I already agree with.

I'm reading your posts, scratching my head thinking "Um...ok "

 

[Gstanfor]

Don't worry, Nelsieus, the fanatics will happily clutch at any straw, however small they think they can use against us or derail the thread with. If they are so interested in the cheats/lies issue they can look it up for themselves. The issue has been thoroughly debated in the past.

 

[josh6079]

So everyone who is saying that you're exaggerating is a fanATIc? BFG10K is a fanATIc with a 7900GTX, redbox is a fanATIc with a volted 7800GT, I am a fanATIc with a 6600GT, two 7800GT's, and one X1900XTX under the belt, etc. Why do you see everything as red and green and not what it really is? You are making a very bogus and opinionated claim, then reinforcing it with more opinions that you believe to be true. You haven't provided one shred of evidence that backs what you have claimed. All you've really done here is troll.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
My investment is in fairness here. If you don't want to be fair, there was no reason for you to try and claim otherwise.

Please object to any of my statements involving both ATI and nVidia using cheating methods in the past, and both sides stooping low when it came to tactics they used.

You're the one with the problem of me saying "To be fair, both teams had their own cheating methods," so it's up to you to refute that asservation, not me to further elaborate on something I already agree with.

I'm reading your posts, scratching my head thinking "Um...ok "

I'm just curious how much you know what you are talking about with your attempt to downplay Munky's mention of Nvidia's blatent cheating. If you don't care to elaborate on your position, that's your bag.

 

[Keysplayr]

Member 1: "I'm right."

Member 2: "No, I'm right."

Member 1: "You can't possibly be right, just admit you're wrong. I'm right."

Member 2: "You're a FanATIc!!"

Member 1: "You're an Nvidiot!"

Member 2: "Nyaaaaah, nyah nyah nyaaaah nyah........"

Member 1: "Well, my dad can beat up your dad!!"

MOD: "Why didn't you guys just tell me that you didn't want to post at AT any longer?"

 

[fierydemise]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Member 1: "I'm right."

Member 2: "No, I'm right."

Member 1: "You can't possibly be right, just admit you're wrong. I'm right."

Member 2: "You're a FanATIc!!"

Member 1: "You're an Nvidiot!"

Member 2: "Nyaaaaah, nyah nyah nyaaaah nyah........"

Member 1: "Well, my dad can beat up your dad!!"

MOD: "Why didn't you guys just tell me that you didn't want to post at AT any longer?"

Nice keys, only I think your missing a step before the mods get involved:

Member 1 goes to compain about member 2's flaming in FI
Member 2 retaliates by spamming Member 2's FI thread and creating his own FI thread complaining about Member 1's FI thread
Both members create FI threads accusing the other of being AEG/HRC

 

[kylebisme]

Why don't you understand that your "Member 1"'s claim has no value as long as he fails to provide evidence to back it? Oh wait, I know why, never mind.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Why don't you understand that your "Member 1"'s claim has no value as long as he fails to provide evidence to back it? Oh wait, I know why, never mind.

But, you're member 1.

 

[kylebisme]

Oh yeah. what claim are you suggesting I started an argument with here?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Oh yeah. what claim are you suggesting I started an argument with here?

I claim that you are not mature enough to just back down and let it be. You need me to prove my claim? I think you'll do that for me.

 

[Ackmed]

Why should someone who is right, back down. And let more ignorance and misinformation be spread around?

Why dont you "back down"?

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
My investment is in fairness here. If you don't want to be fair, there was no reason for you to try and claim otherwise.

Please object to any of my statements involving both ATI and nVidia using cheating methods in the past, and both sides stooping low when it came to tactics they used.

You're the one with the problem of me saying "To be fair, both teams had their own cheating methods," so it's up to you to refute that asservation, not me to further elaborate on something I already agree with.

I'm reading your posts, scratching my head thinking "Um...ok "

I'm just curious how much you know what you are talking about with your attempt to downplay Munky's mention of Nvidia's blatent cheating. If you don't care to elaborate on your position, that's your bag.

Will this shut you up?

Reported by PCWorld:
An organization that produces benchmark tests for measuring the performance of graphics chips has updated its test after it found code in Nvidia's graphics chip drivers that detected certain tests and altered the chip's performance to inflate results.

Futuremark, which developed the 3DMark03 benchmark, posted a statement on its Web site Friday detailing allegations that some Nvidia drivers have "detection mechanisms" that trigger a higher level of performance when certain tests within 3DMark03 are detected. ATI Technologies, Nvidia's rival, also appears to have altered its drivers in order to boost test results, Futuremark said.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110896,00.asp

 

[kylebisme]

Are you saying you don't know any details beyond that?

 

[josh6079]

Where'd Dave go?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Why should someone who is right, back down. And let more ignorance and misinformation be spread around?

Why dont you "back down"?

Can I ask if any of you are getting through to the FUD spreader in question, Ackmed?
What exactly should I back down from? Or is this just something you're saying back to me because I said it? You know, like nursery school.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Are you saying you don't know any details beyond that?

I think he is showing you a source for his information. You know, what you call FUD and misinformation. NOW that he has provided a source of a sort, it is now up to you to follow through fully to discredit it for no apparent reason and liken the source he posted to the likes of the inquirer. Never...ending...cycle. Getting boring.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: josh6079
Where'd Dave go?

Canada Red.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Are you saying you don't know any details beyond that?

I think he is showing you a source for his information. You know, what you call FUD and misinformation. NOW that he has provided a source of a sort, it is now up to you to follow through fully to discredit it for no apparent reason and liken the source he posted to the likes of the inquirer. Never...ending...cycle. Getting boring.

The never ending cycle is just in your delusional head along the unfounded accusation you made against me a bit ago.

I never made any claims here to contradict what his source says and I have no reason to do so as I know it is true. I'm just curious to hear if he knows any of the details of the situation which have yet gone unmentioned here.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
My investment is in fairness here. If you don't want to be fair, there was no reason for you to try and claim otherwise.

Please object to any of my statements involving both ATI and nVidia using cheating methods in the past, and both sides stooping low when it came to tactics they used.

You're the one with the problem of me saying "To be fair, both teams had their own cheating methods," so it's up to you to refute that asservation, not me to further elaborate on something I already agree with.

I'm reading your posts, scratching my head thinking "Um...ok "

I'm just curious how much you know what you are talking about with your attempt to downplay Munky's mention of Nvidia's blatent cheating. If you don't care to elaborate on your position, that's your bag.

Will this shut you up?

Reported by PCWorld:
An organization that produces benchmark tests for measuring the performance of graphics chips has updated its test after it found code in Nvidia's graphics chip drivers that detected certain tests and altered the chip's performance to inflate results.

Futuremark, which developed the 3DMark03 benchmark, posted a statement on its Web site Friday detailing allegations that some Nvidia drivers have "detection mechanisms" that trigger a higher level of performance when certain tests within 3DMark03 are detected. ATI Technologies, Nvidia's rival, also appears to have altered its drivers in order to boost test results, Futuremark said.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,110896,00.asp

That's barely scratching the surface of the cheating issue. Here's an article that shows just how bad Nvidia cheated, and is in no way comparable in scale to whatever cheats Ati may have used.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

 

[SolMiester]

Dont you mean ATI werent as good as Nvidia with their 'cheating/enchancements'. We are all aware how much better Nvidia drivers are anyway.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: munky
That's barely scratching the surface of the cheating issue. Here's an article that shows just how bad Nvidia cheated, and is in no way comparable in scale to whatever cheats Ati may have used.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1086025,00.asp

Cheating is cheating. The fact that you feel compelled to defend one "cheater" over the other is disturbing, but expected from someone like you, nonetheless.

All you did was link to a source covering nVidia's driver cheats. So I guess you expect me to link to sources covering that of ATI (to equivilate my statement of both nVidia and ATI using cheating methods)?

Reported by XbitLabs:
ATI Technologies? Director of PR, Chris Evenden, responded to accusations in cheating with the CATALYST drivers in order to achieve higher results in 3DMark03. The scandal broke on Friday, the 23rd of May, when Futuremark, the developer of the 3DMark03 issued a document stating that NVIDIA and ATI Technologies implemented cheats in drivers in an attempt to score better in 3DMark03 benchmark
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030526040035.html

Going further back in 2001....

Reported by TechReport:MOST OF YOU ARE probably familiar by now with the controversy surrounding the current drivers for ATI's Radeon 8500 card. It's become quite clear, thanks to this article at the HardOCP, that ATI is "optimizing" for better performance in Quake III Arena?and, most importantly, for the Quake III timedemo benchmarks that hardware review sites like us use to evaluate 3D cards.
http://www.techreport.com/etc/2001q4/radeon-q3/index.x?pg=1

But I guess you're argument is still that nvidia "cheated more?" :roll:

Oh well, at least Extremetech sees my logic...

Reported by ExtremeTech:
Our original test results misstated ATI's performance drop with 3DMark03 version 3.30, and we'll provide correct, updated results that set ATI in a much better light, with far less performance hit moving to version 3.30. However, ATI still detected 3DMark03 within their driver, and substituted a "better optimized" shader, and that is still benchmark cheating in our book, even if the overall performance boost was modest.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1191535,00.asp

EDIT: Took out some stack quotes so only Munky was quoted (to shorten up the post)

 

[josh6079]

It's good to see that this is still about Dave's promotion......