Dateline NBC - scuba death

[Scarpozzi]

This was on Dateline?

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: rh71
If the life insurance thing is for real, he has to be extremely stupid to make this so obvious. But would they be able to convict on what they have?

I don't think they have enough to convict. But it'd be close.

They have motive, witnesses, statements and a body. Some of the testimony from the people on the boat may be enough to get a conviction. These people were experienced dive masters and nothing about his story seemed right.

The whole BS about his computer beeping/not working? You check ALL gear before you descend, hell before you even get in the water.

Not to mention that every dive computer in existance lets you know WELL in advance if the battery is running down.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Ken Snyder with 25 years of experience and the highest level of certification (dive master) says in the article "None of his story was plausible, in fact."

 

[Narse]

Even if he was on EAN I would think he was not using a crazy high mix on a drift dive. EAN32 and EAN36 would be safe to 100ft at a 1.6 partial pressure. He is eithier a lier or a real wimp.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

For those of you who dive - how long would it take for an intermediate diver to surface from 40 odd feet?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
For those of you who dive - how long would it take for an intermediate diver to surface from 40 odd feet?

20 seconds or less, you can shoot right up without worry unless you've been there for like 45 minutes. No equipment dropping, no nothing, just kick to the surface and keep breathing/expelling air. You're only at a little more than twice normal atmospheric pressure.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
For those of you who dive - how long would it take for an intermediate diver to surface from 40 odd feet?

20 seconds or less, you can shoot right up without worry unless you've been there for like 45 minutes. No equipment dropping, no nothing, just kick to the surface and keep breathing/expelling air. You're only at a little more than twice normal atmospheric pressure.

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

I've done things I shouldn't do, stayed down a bit longer then I should - things like that.

The fact is you do what you have to do in an emergency. The guidlines are there for your protection, but they aren't scripture. Everyones different (body chemistry of course) and some people can withstand more then others.

As of 4-5 years ago I bought a dive computer which is quite a bit more accurate. Before that I was diving on charts, and after owning the computer realized that the charts are very conservative. For example, if the charts say you can only stay at 120 feet for 7-10 minutes (regular air) you can actually stay there for a bit longer then that.

I only mention this because the guy is using the fact that his computer wasn't working as an excuse when in reality, anyone who owns a computer will probably be quite advanced at reading charts and realize this. Yes you can go past 120-130 feet even if novice charts say you can't. You just need to compensate by starting your ascent right away, and making sure you stop at every atmosphere and for longer then you have to from a shallower depth.

When you dive obscene depths on tri-mix, say 300 feet. It takes an hour just to ascend if you do it properly. You stop at various depths and there are tanks with different gas mixtures that you breath to balance your nitrogen/blood ratios and get them where they should be.

AND, if all else fails and you are running out of air - surface any way, every major scuba location has Hyperbaric Chambers. I'd risk it in a heart beat if it meant saving my wife.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
AND, if all else fails and you are running out of air - surface any way, every major scuba location has Hyperbaric Chambers. I'd risk it in a heart beat if it meant saving my wife.

That's the point I'm trying to make. I could probably go from 40 feet to 100 feet in maybe 30 seconds, just swim down. Grab her, dump her belt, and do an emergency ascent. There is a risk by doing this, but it's small if you just go down and right back up.

I know folks will say "well you're not really thinking clearly at that moment". actually you ARE, especially if it's you're buddy. You keep an eye on them you are both there for each other. This is all through training and the various exercises you go through so that you don't think, you just do because it's natural through training.

 

[sygyzy]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

Sorry, I don't dive so much of these responses are like a foreign language to me. What do you mean by exhale all the way up? You mean for 20 seconds you can't inhale? You just have to keep breathing out?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

Sorry, I don't dive so much of these responses are like a foreign language to me. What do you mean by exhale all the way up? You mean for 20 seconds you can't inhale? You just have to keep breathing out?

You MUST exhale, sure you can inhale as well but you MUST exhale a little bit all the way up. The air in your lungs is expanding as you ascend, by exhaling you prevent your lungs from exploding. That's generally a good idea.

At 40 feet you're a little over 2 atmospheres of pressure. So you have twice as much air in your lungs than at the surface. You breath in air equal to the pressure of the water.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

Sorry, I don't dive so much of these responses are like a foreign language to me. What do you mean by exhale all the way up? You mean for 20 seconds you can't inhale? You just have to keep breathing out?

Yes. A lungful of air at 40 feet is under far greater pressure than surface air and will expand as you rise and you need to let it out.. If you don't exhale, you will have a pulmonary embolism and probably die. It is THE most basic and important lesson in SCUBA.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

Sorry, I don't dive so much of these responses are like a foreign language to me. What do you mean by exhale all the way up? You mean for 20 seconds you can't inhale? You just have to keep breathing out?

think of it this way:

if you blew a balloon up with air at the surface, and then descended 40 feet, the balloon would shrink to half of its size. this is because the water is pressing the balloon at all sides, the deeper you go the smaller it will become.

likewise, if you blow a balloon up at 100feet, and then begin your ascent, the balloon be about twice as big at the surface.

your lungs are essentially that balloon. if your lungs expanded to twice their size, you'd be in major trouble.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: sygyzy

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Exactly, and even if you had been down for 45 minutes you can go strait up. There is a little risk but if you have to, you have to. You just need to make sure you exhale all the way up. You can do this because as you go up the air in your lungs expands.

Sorry, I don't dive so much of these responses are like a foreign language to me. What do you mean by exhale all the way up? You mean for 20 seconds you can't inhale? You just have to keep breathing out?

Others already did a fantastic job of explaining it. Also since I touched on mixed gases, Nitrox and tri-mix in my posts here is some info on those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enriched_Air_Nitrox

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trimix

Its cool how many scuba divers we have around here any way. I've been doing it since I was 14, which at that time was the youngest you could start so I've been doing it for 14 years or so now.

Another interesting fact, at least this was true when I read it 4-5 years ago. Colorado has more divers per capita then any other state. Which is weird because there is absolutely NO WHERE in Colorado to dive.

 

[Alyx]

I didn't read the whole story but if he complained that his mask broke or flooded and he couldn't clear it once his wife started descending he'd probably loose sight of her, its hard to see more than 3' without a mask. That said even without a mask I can dive without any problems and I'm a beginner (10 dives) so I doubt he'd have any trouble, he'd just be blind.

 

[dquan97]

Near the end of the story, there was a witness who saw someone who had her in a bearhug, then let go. Possibly to turn off her O2 and keep her from surfacing.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: dquan97
Near the end of the story, there was a witness who saw someone who had her in a bearhug, then let go. Possibly to turn off her O2 and keep her from surfacing.

If her O2 was off then he'd already be arrested. THAT would be more than enough to prosecute IMO.

Side story:

I was bugging (hunting lobster) off West Palm Beach years ago, with a friend. One of the divers (on the sister boat) set traps at a few places, and then got in an underwater confrontation with another diver when his traps were poached.

One of the divers managed to get behind the other and shut off his air at 110ft. The other diver used his pony bottle while he had to take off his BCD and turned his air back on (big guy, couldn't reach the valve otherwise).

Thankfully some other divers witnessed the whole thing, restrained him as soon as they all surfaced, and the guy was charged with attempted murder.

Boy that was all exciting. Talk about a "WTF is going on" response when my buddy and I surfaced.

 

[wwswimming]

somehow this one hits closer to home than the OJ thing. i still don't
know exactly where Brentwood is.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
Which is weird because there is absolutely NO WHERE in Colorado to dive.

Don't I know it :brokenheart:

 

[AbsolutDealage]

Originally posted by: AMDZen
The only other thing to consider is depth perception. IF he is just estimating that she was 100 feet down once he saw she was sinking, she could of been as much as 200 feet down. Depth perception is difficult in very clear water, regardless I would of swam as absolutely hard as I could to get to her and wouldn't of thought twice about it. No way would I have taken my eyes off her any way if its her first dive, I mean come on.

From the article:

The Yongala lies 100 feet down...

This guy's whole story is complete BS. He sabatoged her in some fashion, and then stayed down long enough to make sure she wasn't gonna come back up.

What I'm surprised with is that this guy, with all those dives under his belt, could not come up with a better story then he did. You have to assume that this sort of thing was premeditated... and to come up to the surface with some BS about her listlessly sinking to the bottom is just pathetic.

When I got my open water cert, I panicked in about 30 feet of water, and shot up to the surface... probably took me all of 20 seconds. The instructor tried to keep me calm and on the bottom, but I was just not having it. I was convinced that I needed to be on the surface.

If she was in distress in any way, she would have surely struggled her way up to the surface if she was physically able to.

On a side note, if I were a member of that girl's family and caught that asshole taking flowers from her grave, you would find me locked up in the county jail on assault charges. I can't believe that someone in the family did not go apeshit over that.

 

[spidey07]

Yeah, there's some big threads on scuba boards after I searched around some. All pretty much saying the same thing - it all sounds like complete BS. None it sounds plausible or reasonable.

 

[AndrewR]

Finally read through the article, and the guy's account is crap. It's no wonder the police are suspicious, and the accounts of that dive from the husband are simply not credible. What I wonder is why that boat would allow a newly certified diver to go on a 100 ft drift dive? That is simply NOT a dive for a brand new diver, unless (and even this is a stretch), you paired the new diver with one of the dive masters from the boat.

The idiot's story about his computer, even though it's false, is the reason why I carry a backup for mine, which isn't an air-integrated one. Depth gauge, air gauge, and dive watch. If my computer fails on the dive, I'm still covered.

 

[911paramedic]

Total crap. If the instructor was able to recover her, after seeing her later, the husband could have too. I don't remember my dive tables off hand, but non-decompression allows for somewhere between 12-20 minutes at that depth. If he was already kicking down to get her, he should have continued.

The problem is if she was overweighted, and it sounds like she was, the deeper you go the more buoyancy you lose form suit compression. However, all he needed to do was release her belt. (BTW, often a struggling person will knock your mask off.)

I would need a few more details to make a better guess as to what should have been done, but if it were my wife (or buddy) I would've followed them down. There was a bottom at 100 ft, not like it was a bottomless abyss...

P.S. If they were both horozontal while swimming against the current (which is stupid to begin with) and then she was vertical, she probably dumped her BCD rather than inflated it. This one needs some serious investigation into the equipment and her weight situation. But the husband is a dumbass or murderer, one of the two.

 

[buck]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein
For some strange reason, I'm reminded of that clip w/ the MSNBC reporter sitting in a boat complaining of the water level while people walked by wearing rain boots!

That was classic.

 

[Gravity]

Much simpler than divorce. Boyancy changes substantially in the first 30 feet. She sank like a rock...ok. Just because she went to 100 feet doesn't mean she stopped breathing. Assuming all else was fine, she would sit there for 15-25 minutes until her air ran out. Of course, a pinhole in the regulator diaphram would really mess up her day!

I was a SCUBA instructor and trained rescue divers. This is totally lame.

Gravity

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Gravity
Much simpler than divorce. Boyancy changes substantially in the first 30 feet. She sank like a rock...ok. Just because she went to 100 feet doesn't mean she stopped breathing. Assuming all else was fine, she would sit there for 15-25 minutes until her air ran out. Of course, a pinhole in the regulator diaphram would really mess up her day!

I was a SCUBA instructor and trained rescue divers. This is totally lame.

Gravity

I didn't notice in the article whether or not her tank still had air in it, or did I miss that? The Aussies were working on the theory that he grabbed her and shut off her air so residual air in the tank would fit that scenario.