Dateline NBC - scuba death

[spidey07]

OK - I'm not a rescue diver (do have 60+ dives) but the story the husband is an experienced diver, took the new wife on what I'd call not a dive suited for a novice.

Here's where my training comes in...he says she started sinking at 40 feet and he ascended. You don't do that with your buddy, you go down after them.

Something was wrong with this dive from the start.

 

[NFS4]

Scuba... fishy... I LOL'd

I meant to watch this b/c they kept talking it up during the Today Show this morning. Maybe I'll catch the rerun.

 

[spidey07]

It's weird, I'm only a intermediate diver and he left his buddy that was in clear distress. He says "well, I couldn't go down after her to 100 feet". WTF! Sure you can, you were only at 40 feet and she was sinking like a rock. At 40 feet she can drop her weight belt if needed and probably be just fine depending on how long she was down. At worst a day in a decompression chamber. You pull her belt.

And he's supposedly a rescue diver?

 

[Baked]

When the shit hits the fan, the coward rears its head.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Baked
When the shit hits the fan, the coward rears its head.

Coward is one thing, but you're TRAINED for these kinds of things. To many things don't add up - taking somebody on a dive like that for a novice is just stupid. Not staying with your buddy is just stupid. Leaving them is wrong. Dude's story is he lost his mask - screw that, you can live without a mask as long as you get to your buddy, especially if they're sinking like that.

I was hoping 911paramedic or some of our other dive masters and rescue divers could chime in.

 

[Zim Hosein]

For some strange reason, I'm reminded of that clip w/ the MSNBC reporter sitting in a boat complaining of the water level while people walked by wearing rain boots!

 

[ajskydiver]

I'm a certified Rescue Diver and have been diving actively for 4 years. My training consisted mainly of surface rescue scenarios since the majority of accidents happen at the surface. In the situation described, since I didn't see the show, you'd have to evaluate whether or not you could safely assist another diver without jeopardizing yourself and making the situation worse. However, 100' is well within the limits of recreational diving and I would never let what happened occur. If it was my wife, I'd go way beyond "safe" and get her on the boat regardless of the risk. Better to get to the surface and need hospitalization/chamber rides than just drown.

 

[wwswimming]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24713499/

doesn't sound like she was a strong swimmer.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Well, the police's reenactment isn't exactly the most scientific of explanations, and relying on the jumbled memories of a panicking husband probably doesn't help. Currents can change from day to day, which totally hoses their theory. Frankly, unless they went inside the ship (only watched the videos on the link...I hate reading transcripts), it shouldn't have been a dive outside of novice abilities.

you can live without a mask as long as you get to your buddy, especially if they're sinking like that.

Losing your mask alone induces panic in a lot of people. Just imagine how bad it is when you know you're in trouble. I've seen a lot of experienced volunteer divers do incredibly stupid things at the aquariums I've worked at in the past....and those are controlled environments. Nothing surprises me when it comes to diving accidents.

It's entirely possible he was just a shitty/neglectful diver. It is also possible there was foul play involved, but I think the police will have a hard time getting a conviction without some obvious motive and/or string of substantial circumstances (at least they would if I were on the jury).

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
It's entirely possible he was just a shitty/neglectful diver. It is also possible there was foul play involved, but I think the police will have a hard time getting a conviction without some obvious motive and/or string of substantial circumstances (at least they would if I were on the jury).

Dateline interviewed a divemaster who was on the same trip. He pointed out that if the wife was panicking, she would not have calmly sunk to the bottom with her arms outstretched. As he pointed out, panicked divers struggle, dead divers sink.

Secondly, according to her father, he had asked her to max out her life insurance and designate him as the primary beneficiary. She lied and told him that she had taken care of it prior to the honeymoon. This story comes from her father, so it's possibly a fabrication, but if its true than that's his motivation.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Baked
When the shit hits the fan, the coward rears its head.

Have to agree. Either that or it was intentional. And if he's a rescue diver then I'm Jacques Cousteau.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Well, the police's reenactment isn't exactly the most scientific of explanations, and relying on the jumbled memories of a panicking husband probably doesn't help. Currents can change from day to day, which totally hoses their theory. Frankly, unless they went inside the ship (only watched the videos on the link...I hate reading transcripts), it shouldn't have been a dive outside of novice abilities.

you can live without a mask as long as you get to your buddy, especially if they're sinking like that.

Losing your mask alone induces panic in a lot of people. Just imagine how bad it is when you know you're in trouble. I've seen a lot of experienced volunteer divers do incredibly stupid things at the aquariums I've worked at in the past....and those are controlled environments. Nothing surprises me when it comes to diving accidents.

It's entirely possible he was just a shitty/neglectful diver. It is also possible there was foul play involved, but I think the police will have a hard time getting a conviction without some obvious motive and/or string of substantial circumstances (at least they would if I were on the jury).

Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

 

[GasX]

I haven't gotten through the article yet, but this is not screaming foul play to me - more of a poorly trained diver issue. However, that is a judgement call based on an internet article. It would not surprise me if this guy was a bit of a control freak with a big ego who thought he could be the big man and take his cute little wife for a fun dive even though he was not really a good enough diver or strong enough person to actually show some heroism when his wife's life was at risk.

a few observations:
1. They realized on a drift dive that she was out of her comfort zone, so they tried to swim against the current back to the anchor chain. This is a bad idea as a novice who is nervous and now working REALLY hard to swim against the current is going to tire fast and is more likely to panic. You should finish the dive or surface unless you are VERY close to that chain...

2. I don't get the letting her go to clear his mask. That can be done easily with one hand unless the mask is completely knocked off. If that was the case then I understand, but still it is a 5 second procedure - she should have been right next to him. If she started sinking the second he let go, then she was already negatively bouyant and he should have been aware of that.

3. He swam after her, but could not catch up. huh? If he was fighting his own bouyancy, maybe, but that is just yet another issue with him being a crappy diver. Besides, if you push down far enough, you will overcome the bouyancy issues and start dropping fast too as the air in your BC compresses.

4. His thought process when he decided to leave her is a bit dodgy too.

And I thought, ?Well if I go to the bottom and she's unconscious or something I don't, other than dumping her equipment, I don't know of anything else to do.? So I thought, ?Well, I'm half way down. If I go all the way down, I can't come back up quick just because of how deep it is.? So I thought, ?Well, I'll just turn, shoot back to the anchor rope.?

Dumping her equipment and taking the express train to the top is not SOP, but it would have saved her life. I may not remember everything from rescue diver class, but I would not leave a diver in serious distress that I had eyes on to try and find help while in a current and hope to be able to find and get back to the distressed diver to save them.

5. While bottom time at 100 ft is only a few minutes, a bounce dive would not put him at risk for the bends. They were at 40 feet or so which gives you about 2 hours of bottom time. His concern in that regard was unfounded.

Bottom line is this guy is an asshat. He killed his wife either intentionally or through incompetence, stupidity and vanity.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2
Well, the police's reenactment isn't exactly the most scientific of explanations, and relying on the jumbled memories of a panicking husband probably doesn't help. Currents can change from day to day, which totally hoses their theory. Frankly, unless they went inside the ship (only watched the videos on the link...I hate reading transcripts), it shouldn't have been a dive outside of novice abilities.

you can live without a mask as long as you get to your buddy, especially if they're sinking like that.

Losing your mask alone induces panic in a lot of people. Just imagine how bad it is when you know you're in trouble. I've seen a lot of experienced volunteer divers do incredibly stupid things at the aquariums I've worked at in the past....and those are controlled environments. Nothing surprises me when it comes to diving accidents.

It's entirely possible he was just a shitty/neglectful diver. It is also possible there was foul play involved, but I think the police will have a hard time getting a conviction without some obvious motive and/or string of substantial circumstances (at least they would if I were on the jury).

Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

Unfortunently it really doesn't take a lot to get to rescue, 20 logged deep/nav is it, with combo of OW and AOW thats 29 dives and you can be rescue. The cert says experienced but the dive count doesn't.

He also said they swam aginst the current to get back to the anchor line.. supposed to swim aginst the current from the boat and return with the current.

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Bottom line is this guy is an asshat. He killed his wife either intentionally or through incompetence, stupidity and vanity.

QFT

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: ajskydiver
I'm a certified Rescue Diver and have been diving actively for 4 years. My training consisted mainly of surface rescue scenarios since the majority of accidents happen at the surface. In the situation described, since I didn't see the show, you'd have to evaluate whether or not you could safely assist another diver without jeopardizing yourself and making the situation worse. However, 100' is well within the limits of recreational diving and I would never let what happened occur. If it was my wife, I'd go way beyond "safe" and get her on the boat regardless of the risk. Better to get to the surface and need hospitalization/chamber rides than just drown.

Bold 1: Unless as I said, he was on a gas mixture intended for shallow depths.

Bold 2: EXACTLY, IF the Nitrox mixture I was breathing had a maximum depth of 80 ft, I'd easily go beyond 100 if I thought I could without nitrogen sickness hindering me. Chances are I wouldn't even THINK about that and risk kill myself trying to save her. Regardless, I'd do my best

If these guys were breathing normal air there is no reason for not going 100 ft. I've been well over 100 feet on air, you just can't stay down there for long.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: K1052


Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

Unfortunently it really doesn't take a lot to get to rescue, 20 logged deep/nav is it, with combo of OW and AOW thats 29 dives and you can be rescue. The cert says experienced but the dive count doesn't.

He also said they swam aginst the current to get back to the anchor line.. supposed to swim aginst the current from the boat and return with the current.

Originally posted by: Mwilding
Bottom line is this guy is an asshat. He killed his wife either intentionally or through incompetence, stupidity and vanity.

QFT

Even if he had the absolute minimum number of dives under his belt only for the certifications he should have (and probably did) known better.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

If she just got her certification before the trip I doubt she would have been diving Nitrox. IIRC, you can only take the Enriched Air course after you get your Open Water certification.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

If she just got her certification before the trip I doubt she would have been diving Nitrox. IIRC, you can only take the Enriched Air course after you get your Open Water certification.

Correct,

Edit: Ok AMD I see what you mean now from your next post

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

If she just got her certification before the trip I doubt she would have been diving Nitrox. IIRC, you can only take the Enriched Air course after you get your Open Water certification.

That's true but I was saying that HE might of been on the Nitrox, I had already assessed that she wouldn't be. Its the only thing that would even make me question myself before swimming down after her. And the only thing that would give the guys story any credibility at all. He'd still be a complete pussy in my eyes.

But regardless, this kind of thing would never happen to me. My wife would be holding my hand the entire time of her first dive, or I'd at least have her tethered to me somehow. And even if somehow this started happening, nothing would of prevented me from going down to get her. If I was on air I'd have gone well over 200 feet to save her, 100 feet would be like a normal dive for me. I've been 300 feet on tri-mix, this guy is just a douche bag.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

If she just got her certification before the trip I doubt she would have been diving Nitrox. IIRC, you can only take the Enriched Air course after you get your Open Water certification.

Correct,

Also to AMDzen they were diving at 40ft, she dropped to 100ft after he let go of her.

Thats the reason I am simply considering that he was on a high Nitrox mixture. The higher the nitrogen %, the lower the depth you can go but the longer you can be there. Cave divers use it the most because they might never go below 50 feet in the cave dive and thus, they have hours and hours of air. (with 2-3 tanks).

I'm definetely not trying to defend the guy, but when I go on dives that I only plan on being X feet, like a wreck dive or something - i'll use nitrox simply to stay down longer.

Thats probably not the case here, I didn't see the story and can't find a good write up of it.

Bottom line is that the OP is pretty much correct, I simply can't imagine a single Diver I know who would of been in this situation, much less not gone down to save her.

The only other thing to consider is depth perception. IF he is just estimating that she was 100 feet down once he saw she was sinking, she could of been as much as 200 feet down. Depth perception is difficult in very clear water, regardless I would of swam as absolutely hard as I could to get to her and wouldn't of thought twice about it. No way would I have taken my eyes off her any way if its her first dive, I mean come on.

I say it was murder personally.

 

[rh71]

If the life insurance thing is for real, he has to be extremely stupid to make this so obvious. But would they be able to convict on what they have?

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: AMDZen

Originally posted by: K1052
Loss/flooding of a mask shouldn't panic an experienced diver (husband) who possesses several certifications. His story reeks of bullshit. He should have had no trouble catching up to her descent or at the very least getting to her on the bottom at 100ft.

I'm an advanced diver, the only thing I can think of is maybe they were on Nitrox and not air. Depths at 100+ feet are very dangerous if you're breathing a gas mixture of some kind intended for shallow depths. Depending on the Nitrox (Nitrogen %)

Frankly I agree with everyone's assessment. The guy either strait up MURDERED his wife, or he is the biggest pussy known to man, either way he should suffer. The wife's parents should sue if no criminal charges can be brought up

If she just got her certification before the trip I doubt she would have been diving Nitrox. IIRC, you can only take the Enriched Air course after you get your Open Water certification.

Correct,

Also to AMDzen they were diving at 40ft, she dropped to 100ft after he let go of her.

Thats the reason I am simply considering that he was on a high Nitrox mixture. The higher the nitrogen %, the lower the depth you can go but the longer you can be there. Cave divers use it the most because they might never go below 50 feet in the cave dive and thus, they have hours and hours of air. (with 2-3 tanks).

I'm definetely not trying to defend the guy, but when I go on dives that I only plan on being X feet, like a wreck dive or something - i'll use nitrox simply to stay down longer.

Thats probably not the case here, I didn't see the story and can't find a good write up of it.

Bottom line is that the OP is pretty much correct, I simply can't imagine a single Diver I know who would of been in this situation, much less not gone down to save her.

The only other thing to consider is depth perception. IF he is just estimating that she was 100 feet down once he saw she was sinking, she could of been as much as 200 feet down. Depth perception is difficult in very clear water, regardless I would of swam as absolutely hard as I could to get to her and wouldn't of thought twice about it. No way would I have taken my eyes off her any way if its her first dive, I mean come on.

I say it was murder personally.

I agree, I think everything is there to say he's guilty, just no evidence to prosecute.

 

[wwswimming]

the widower-to-be asking his bride-to-be to max out her life insurance ?

the dive computer malfunction blamed on battery problems ?

the widower removing flowers from his wife's grave, using a bolt cutter ?

i don't know what the jurisdiction is, Aus. or Alabama. if i was the prosecutor
i'd want to get the guy behind bars before he flees or kills himself.

once they get him under oath and start asking him questions about the
multiple conflicting odd details, he'll need a Q9450 to keep his stories straight.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: rh71
If the life insurance thing is for real, he has to be extremely stupid to make this so obvious. But would they be able to convict on what they have?

I don't think they have enough to convict. But it'd be close.

They have motive, witnesses, statements and a body. Some of the testimony from the people on the boat may be enough to get a conviction. These people were experienced dive masters and nothing about his story seemed right.

The whole BS about his computer beeping/not working? You check ALL gear before you descend, hell before you even get in the water.