Dang road jogging is harder than treadmill jogging

[episodic]

Having enjoy success on the treadmill - I figured it was a pretty day, I'd go run outside.

I made a mile - just barely. It was nothing like the treadmill. The uneveness of the road hurt my ankles, hills kicked my butt to a shuffle, and oncoming traffic made me feel like a sideshow. . .

So - I'll be keeping that gym membership a while longer

Ran 1.1 miles in 11:10 - a little worse than treadmill - but hills. . .

Managed to make it back 1.1 miles in 14:20 - some light shuffling and fast walking. . .

Sigh. . .

 

[abaez]

Of course it is. You don't propel your body on the treadmill. I thought I was awesome doing 10mph on a treadmill but all I was doing was touching the treadmill fast enough so I would go backwards. There is no contest which is better.

I wonder if anyone has ever trained for a marathon on a treadmill...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Of course it is. You don't propel your body on the treadmill. I thought I was awesome doing 10mph on a treadmill but all I was doing was touching the treadmill fast enough so I would go backwards. There is no contest which is better.

I wonder if anyone has ever trained for a marathon on a treadmill...

Yes, you do propel your body on the treadmill. That makes no sense otherwise. It's easier to run on a treadmill due to the lack of wind resistance and incline. On top of that, there's the psychological effects of things like bikes, cars, and other traffic flying by you. Plus you're not in a cozy, air conditioned gym.

 

[episodic]

Yes, you do propel your body on the treadmill. That makes no sense otherwise. It's easier to run on a treadmill due to the lack of wind resistance and incline. On top of that, there's the psychological effects of things like bikes, cars, and other traffic flying by you. Plus you're not in a cozy, air conditioned gym.

Mostly the hardest thing for me was the uneven road surface. And the hills to some extent.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Just isn't the same. I hate jogging on the treadmill. Almost a waste of time except the calories burned. Jogging outdoors is the only way to go. I go when it's hot or cold. About 100f and 32f are my limits though. Any hotter or colder and I'll use the treadmill.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I think running outside is 1000x easier. Maybe worse on your body but I find it to be so much easier on the mind. I'd rather be able to look around at changing scenery than stare at a wall or a TV while running in place.

 

[brikis98]

Physically, treadmill running is a bit easier than running outside. The major factors are wind resistance, varying terrain/elevation, and temperature/weather differences. This study showed that running on a treadmill with a 1% incline tends to approximate outdoor times at most common running speeds.

Mentally, which one is easier depends on the person. I personally find my times on a treadmill are far better because the treadmill makes pacing much easier. I set the speed for the exact workout I want and can basically disable my brain. Running outside, I constantly have to make sure I'm not going too fast or slow, which gets tougher and tougher as I fatigue. Some people find treadmills incredibly boring and mentally do much better with the changing scenery of the outdoors.

 

[Bateluer]

I wonder if anyone has ever trained for a marathon on a treadmill...

I'm sure many newbs have tried.

Treadmill running is a very poor substitute for running. Its what you do when its lightning outside or a dust storm, not when you're trying to actually train for something more than just breaking a sweat.

 

[kamper]

I personally find my times on a treadmill are far better because the treadmill makes pacing much easier. I set the speed for the exact workout I want and can basically disable my brain. Running outside, I constantly have to make sure I'm not going too fast or slow, which gets tougher and tougher as I fatigue. Some people find treadmills incredibly boring and mentally do much better with the changing scenery of the outdoors.

Personally, I find the opposite, to some degree. While having a treadmill set a pace is nice, it's too rigid. If I accidentally drift a little faster or a little slower, I find having to immediately correct (over-correct actually, to get back to the middle of the treadmill and then correct again to stay there) is awkward. It would be easier, I'm sure, if treadmills were twice as long.

With constant feedback from a watch, it's not too hard to consistently stay within perhaps a 20 second/mile pace range outdoors, barring any significant elevation irregularities.

Another thing about treadmills, although it probably only applies to heel strikers on cheap treadmills, is that a little bit of forward pressure when landing will cause the tread to jump a bit, which feels very awkward. Ground doesn't give way like that.

 

[swerus]

Cross country is even better.

 

[Kelemvor]

Make sure you have relaly good shoes when outside. The treadmill is far softer of an impact that the hard cement/asphalt is.

I don't like using the treadmill because I always set it too fast and burn out. Outside I can just run at whatever speed feels good and go for a while.

 

[skace]

Another thing about treadmills, although it probably only applies to heel strikers on cheap treadmills, is that a little bit of forward pressure when landing will cause the tread to jump a bit, which feels very awkward. Ground doesn't give way like that.

That may be a heel striker issue, but I also found it's usually an issue with people trying to run faster than they really should on the treadmill. They can only barely keep up, so they cause the treadmill to slip/jump because they can't move their feet as fast as they think they can.

I think most of the pros and cons for each have been listed in this thread. It's also important to realize that you can run on a constant 5% (or 12%) incline if you feel treadmills are too easy. I guarantee you will change your tune quickly though. Most recent treadmills also allow you to set a course that will constantly change like the outdoors, however most people will choose not to use these courses.

I like my treadmill because I can run barefoot on it without any concern, even better is that the friction tends to wear down callouses on my feet and smooth them out. I've noticed that when I go from running barefoot on my treadmill, to running in shoes outside that I have a massive burst of strength at the foot, to the point where I can almost outrun myself. It's a pretty fun effect.

 

[RagingBITCH]

If they're new to running and/or overweight, I advocate the folks I train to run on the treadmill. Otherwise, if they're already in 5K shape and looking to up their distance to a 10K, half, or full, I advocate running outside. For most people it's a shock to go from the creature comforts of AC, a TV playing ESPN, an iPod, and a reading that tells you all stats while you chug along next to the hottie on the treadmill to your left.

Running isn't supposed to be about distractions - it's supposed to be about getting you in shape and clearing your head of all distractions. Not to mention the varied/banked road surface, change in temperature, wind, incline/decline. Running inside really does nothing to prepare you for the conditions of running outside. If it's iced over outside, if it's pouring rain in 30 degree weather, then yes, there might be a legitimate excuse. Otherwise, get outside and run. Use www.mapmyrun.com to layout a route if you don't have a GPS watch or know the distance you're running. And time goes by infinitely faster running outside than the mind numbing boredom of running inside.

 

[irishScott]

That's why I run at a minimum 3% incline when using a treadmill.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Physically, treadmill running is a bit easier than running outside. The major factors are wind resistance, varying terrain/elevation, and temperature/weather differences. This study showed that running on a treadmill with a 1% incline tends to approximate outdoor times at most common running speeds.

Mentally, which one is easier depends on the person. I personally find my times on a treadmill are far better because the treadmill makes pacing much easier. I set the speed for the exact workout I want and can basically disable my brain. Running outside, I constantly have to make sure I'm not going too fast or slow, which gets tougher and tougher as I fatigue. Some people find treadmills incredibly boring and mentally do much better with the changing scenery of the outdoors.

I disagree. I run outside, and refuse to run treadmill unless I have no other choice (too cold, too much snow, too hot, etc). I get bored by mile 3 and then the rest is just doing it to do it, instead of doing it because I enjoy it.

You enjoy turning off your brain and going on auto-pilot, and there is nothing wrong with that if it's what you enjoy and works for you. For me though, running outdoors keeps my mind active and stimulated. Before I know it I'm 1/4 of the way done with the run, then 1/2, and it's over without really going through any times of dreary "this is exactly like the last mile, and 5 miles before that."

Also, as I have run more I have learned to regulate my pace much better. I have found that I am able to estimate my pace fairly accurately, if not 100%. I don't want 100% accuracy though, I want to go with what feels right and have stopped caring as much about time. I have found much more enjoyment out of running this way.

Just isn't the same. I hate jogging on the treadmill. Almost a waste of time except the calories burned. Jogging outdoors is the only way to go. I go when it's hot or cold. About 100f and 32f are my limits though. Any hotter or colder and I'll use the treadmill.

I have to agree here. I really wish I lived in San Francisco or something where it's ~70 and sunny almost every day.

Personally, I find the opposite, to some degree. While having a treadmill set a pace is nice, it's too rigid. If I accidentally drift a little faster or a little slower, I find having to immediately correct (over-correct actually, to get back to the middle of the treadmill and then correct again to stay there) is awkward. It would be easier, I'm sure, if treadmills were twice as long.

With constant feedback from a watch, it's not too hard to consistently stay within perhaps a 20 second/mile pace range outdoors, barring any significant elevation irregularities.

Another thing about treadmills, although it probably only applies to heel strikers on cheap treadmills, is that a little bit of forward pressure when landing will cause the tread to jump a bit, which feels very awkward. Ground doesn't give way like that.

I agree here too. On a treadmill, I find that I am much less focused on my running/body and paying more attention to the treadmill.

Even without constant watch feedback (I don't run with a watch, but use runkeeper on my phone which I don't check often), you can stay within your pace fairly well once you have run enough. Also, if you find a set loop from your front door (for example I have a 6.25 mile loop from my house>my house), you can guage your run very easily. Obviously the problem with this is that you might be learning the course instead of your body, but if you switch it up (maybe run opposite direction) then you can avoid this.

IMHO treadmills are useful in these situations:
-regular barefoot runs
-if it's too hot (90+ with high humidity for example)
-if it's too cold
-other weather conditions (snow, hail, thunderstorms, etc)
-starting a weight loss program or starting running
-you want to avoid the increase stresses from outdoors running

Outside of those situations, there are very few reasons to do treadmill running IMO. To each their own though, and I'll admit that I have thought about picking up a treadmill lately for myself.

Also, as a side note. If you run outdoors, you get a much more varied workout with every step. Maybe you hit a cool patch of air, the ground might be different, different sounds/noises, etc. It makes me feel much more in touch with nature and my core body/psyche. I don't feel treadmills allow me to let go of the daily stresses as easily.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

Of course it is. You don't propel your body on the treadmill. I thought I was awesome doing 10mph on a treadmill but all I was doing was touching the treadmill fast enough so I would go backwards. There is no contest which is better.

I wonder if anyone has ever trained for a marathon on a treadmill...

I did. Went from 0 miles to a full in ~14 weeks or so. First/second time i actually ran outside was the actual marathon. I did set an incline for for most of the training and I usually ramped it up for the last 5 miles or so depending on the length of the run. I found it easier to run inside because it was easier to track my miles, I could set my pace ahead of time, and I could watch The Office. If you look in the 10,000 mile thread I posted most of my training runs in there. This was around '08.

Edit: Also because I was training during the colder months. (Run was in May?)

 

[brikis98]

I disagree. I run outside, and refuse to run treadmill unless I have no other choice (too cold, too much snow, too hot, etc). I get bored by mile 3 and then the rest is just doing it to do it, instead of doing it because I enjoy it.

Not sure why everyone is "disagreeing" with me: I clearly said that "Mentally, which one is easier depends on the person."

You enjoy turning off your brain and going on auto-pilot, and there is nothing wrong with that if it's what you enjoy and works for you. For me though, running outdoors keeps my mind active and stimulated. Before I know it I'm 1/4 of the way done with the run, then 1/2, and it's over without really going through any times of dreary "this is exactly like the last mile, and 5 miles before that."

Actually, I prefer running outside and enjoy it more, but I find it mentally much tougher to achieve my workout goals outdoors. I'm not good at regulating my pace and as I fatigue, what I think feels like 8 mph might actually be 7 mph. Moreover, I hit a mental wall and without a belt turning under me at a constant speed, I sometimes can't push myself to maintain a certain pace even though my body could definitely handle it. On the treadmill, I simply set the speed and find it mentally much easier to stick with it. I guess I just have an easier time convincing myself to "not stop" (and not fall off!) on a treadmill than to be consistently vigilant and "not slow down" while running outside. It also helps to always know exactly how far you've gone, how much is left, and have a TV/audiobook to keep you company.

If I could have a similar "task master" when running outdoors, I'd definitely prefer to do that. Maybe I just need some sort of GPS gizmo to beep loudly at me when I drop below my desired pace... Having said that, I still do a lot of my running outside, and the most frequent reason I use a treadmill is because I usually workout after work, at night, when it's too dark to run safely outside (esp. barefoot or in VFFs).

 

[Terzo]

Moreover, I hit a mental wall and without a belt turning under me at a constant speed, I sometimes can't push myself to maintain a certain pace even though my body could definitely handle it. On the treadmill, I simply set the speed and find it mentally much easier to stick with it. I guess I just have an easier time convincing myself to "not stop" (and not fall off!) on a treadmill than to be consistently vigilant and "not slow down" while running outside. It also helps to always know exactly how far you've gone, how much is left, and have a TV/audiobook to keep you company.

I have the same issue. When I first started running, I ramped up to ~5k pretty quickly, but after that never really improved. I was always running the same path, and my mind would just turn off and wander. The run wasn't really difficult and I found it generally enjoyable, but my speed remained the same.

Maybe I just need some sort of GPS gizmo to beep loudly at me when I drop below my desired pace...

I can just imagine some person hooking up some sort of shock device that jolts them every time their speed drops below a certain mark.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

/\ spammer lol

 

[RagingBITCH]

Not sure why everyone is "disagreeing" with me: I clearly said that "Mentally, which one is easier depends on the person."


Actually, I prefer running outside and enjoy it more, but I find it mentally much tougher to achieve my workout goals outdoors. I'm not good at regulating my pace and as I fatigue, what I think feels like 8 mph might actually be 7 mph. Moreover, I hit a mental wall and without a belt turning under me at a constant speed, I sometimes can't push myself to maintain a certain pace even though my body could definitely handle it. On the treadmill, I simply set the speed and find it mentally much easier to stick with it. I guess I just have an easier time convincing myself to "not stop" (and not fall off!) on a treadmill than to be consistently vigilant and "not slow down" while running outside. It also helps to always know exactly how far you've gone, how much is left, and have a TV/audiobook to keep you company.

If I could have a similar "task master" when running outdoors, I'd definitely prefer to do that. Maybe I just need some sort of GPS gizmo to beep loudly at me when I drop below my desired pace... Having said that, I still do a lot of my running outside, and the most frequent reason I use a treadmill is because I usually workout after work, at night, when it's too dark to run safely outside (esp. barefoot or in VFFs).

That's part of the challenge though - anyone can run X miles indoors. If you're training for a race - it doesn't help you at all to run inside on a treadmill. Mentally you're handicapped (no I'm not bashing you, finish reading) because you *THINK* you need to run inside. Just because you have it on a slight incline is not nearly the same as running on varied camber surfaces, varying degrees of incline/decline, wind, weather, humidity, etc. What are you going to do when you train consistently in a 75 degree gym on a treadmill at 3 percent incline, and you go do a race that's 40 degrees with a 20mph headwind? You're going to epic fail. My best friend is running the KC Marathon on Saturday - most of his training except for long runs are on the treadmill - I've had to let him down and tell him he's not going to do as well as he's expecting on a super hilly course - his "hill training" on a treadmill isn't going to accurately prepare him.

You've obviously made a big change in your life from a fitness perspective (I've followed your story and am happy to see you where you're at) - the only thing stopping you from mentally achieving your workout goal outdoors is you telling yourself that you can't do it. Get up off your ass and get outside - you've had this great attitude in changing yourself physically...why can't you mentally get over this small hump? Looks like your big distraction is the lack of knowing your stats - you can get a Forerunner (205/305) off eBay for around $100-$120 now. It's the best investment you will ever make if you're a runner hands down. I mean that in the best possible way brik - go out there and challenge yourself. Why take the easy way out? And for the record - I do all my training runs in the early morning in the dark - street or head lamps are more than sufficient for watching for potholes, etc.

 

[brikis98]

That's part of the challenge though - anyone can run X miles indoors. If you're training for a race - it doesn't help you at all to run inside on a treadmill.

Running on a treadmill may not be as good as running outside, but to say it "doesn't help you at all" is taking it a bit too far. It's an effective training tool, especially considering that I'm training for overall fitness (general physical preparedness) rather than solely trying to get better at road/trail races (sport-specific training). Moreover, if I drop my 5k time on a treadmill from 25 minutes to 20 minutes, my time on a 5k road race will drop as well; the road race time may be slower than my treadmill time (e.g. 22 min instead of 20), but it'll still be faster than before the treadmill training, which means fitness has improved.

You've obviously made a big change in your life from a fitness perspective (I've followed your story and am happy to see you where you're at) - the only thing stopping you from mentally achieving your workout goal outdoors is you telling yourself that you can't do it. Get up off your ass and get outside - you've had this great attitude in changing yourself physically...why can't you mentally get over this small hump? Looks like your big distraction is the lack of knowing your stats - you can get a Forerunner (205/305) off eBay for around $100-$120 now. It's the best investment you will ever make if you're a runner hands down. I mean that in the best possible way brik - go out there and challenge yourself. Why take the easy way out? And for the record - I do all my training runs in the early morning in the dark - street or head lamps are more than sufficient for watching for potholes, etc.

Heh, I'm working on it

To be fair, as I said above, the treadmill running does help: I get to work on my running fitness in a very precise & controlled manner that I haven't been able to achieve with outdoor runs. In the meantime, I have been running outside as well: looking at the last several weeks of my workout journal, I've done 12 workouts that have included running and 6 of them were outside (on random streets, trails or an olympic track) and 6 of them were on a treadmill. These outdoor runs are gradually building up mental toughness while the treadmill runs are building up my physical fitness.

I've considered getting a forerunner, but is it any better than an iPhone on an armband? I've recently started using the latter as a way to time myself and monitor my pace, which has been fairly effective. The iPhone has a GPS too - anyone know if it's accurate enough to track running (and if so, some good apps for doing it)?

 

[Paleo]

3 parts when running on the ground: foot strike, push off, then recovery.

2 parts running on treadmill: ground is spinning so there is no push off.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Running on a treadmill may not be as good as running outside, but to say it "doesn't help you at all" is taking it a bit too far. It's an effective training tool, especially considering that I'm training for overall fitness (general physical preparedness) rather than solely trying to get better at road/trail races (sport-specific training). Moreover, if I drop my 5k time on a treadmill from 25 minutes to 20 minutes, my time on a 5k road race will drop as well; the road race time may be slower than my treadmill time (e.g. 22 min instead of 20), but it'll still be faster than before the treadmill training, which means fitness has improved.



Heh, I'm working on it

To be fair, as I said above, the treadmill running does help: I get to work on my running fitness in a very precise & controlled manner that I haven't been able to achieve with outdoor runs. In the meantime, I have been running outside as well: looking at the last several weeks of my workout journal, I've done 12 workouts that have included running and 6 of them were outside (on random streets, trails or an olympic track) and 6 of them were on a treadmill. These outdoor runs are gradually building up mental toughness while the treadmill runs are building up my physical fitness.

I've considered getting a forerunner, but is it any better than an iPhone on an armband? I've recently started using the latter as a way to time myself and monitor my pace, which has been fairly effective. The iPhone has a GPS too - anyone know if it's accurate enough to track running (and if so, some good apps for doing it)?

Well ok I think you took it out of context on "not helping at all". (Or maybe I phrased it poorly) Yes it helps...but from a mental and physical aspect - it's a distant second to running outside. Even pool running is more effective than running on a treadmill or an Alter-G IMO, but normally you'd resort to pool running when you have stress fractures or some other injury that severely affects normal running.

Granted I too was much like you - I started with a combination of running on a track, and then switched exclusively to running on a treadmill for over a year when I was only doing 5K's. Once I went up in distance and moved, it was all outside. It's amazing how much of a difference it made for my endurance and overall running ability. True, improving from a 25 min 5K to a 20 min 5K on a treadmill will improve you overall, but it's no substitute for the real thing IMO. Now I avoid the treadmill at all costs - I'd rather slit my wrists than run on that thing. But again, I do understand your mindset and where you're coming from - I too was once there.

In terms of iPhone vs Forerunner - the iPhone is not sweat nor water resistant to my knowledge. I wouldn't risk ruining a $200 phone to track distance and speed. I know a few people who do...but is the risk worth it? They're running a few miles here and there for fun. You're better off getting a Nike+ chip or band if you want a cheaper option than a Forerunner. With a Forerunner - you can customize the stats shown and download/analyze on a computer later. Just turn it on, get a signal, and go out and run. If you plan on keeping at it and perhaps doing something other than improving general fitness, it's an invaluable tool. I can guarantee - once you get one and run outside, you'll never want to run indoors on a treadmill again. There's a certain joy and peace I get from running outside with no iPod...alone to my thoughts. Distractions such as TV's and hot girls in spandex (ok I do miss the latter) from running in the gym shouldn't be part of one's running routine IMO.

 

[kamper]

Running on a treadmill may not be as good as running outside, but to say it "doesn't help you at all" is taking it a bit too far. It's an effective training tool, especially considering that I'm training for overall fitness (general physical preparedness) rather than solely trying to get better at road/trail races (sport-specific training). Moreover, if I drop my 5k time on a treadmill from 25 minutes to 20 minutes, my time on a 5k road race will drop as well; the road race time may be slower than my treadmill time (e.g. 22 min instead of 20), but it'll still be faster than before the treadmill training, which means fitness has improved.

I find this quite odd, coming from you, the guy who insists on mimicking real life as much as possible with all other forms of exercise. Why is running an exception? Running a race may be a specific sport, but in other sports where you run, do you have guides around you that tell you exactly how fast to go?

Heh, I'm working on it

To be fair, as I said above, the treadmill running does help: I get to work on my running fitness in a very precise & controlled manner that I haven't been able to achieve with outdoor runs. In the meantime, I have been running outside as well: looking at the last several weeks of my workout journal, I've done 12 workouts that have included running and 6 of them were outside (on random streets, trails or an olympic track) and 6 of them were on a treadmill. These outdoor runs are gradually building up mental toughness while the treadmill runs are building up my physical fitness.

Sure, and lifting with machines builds up strength while occasionally lifting with free weights builds up stabilizer muscles.

I've considered getting a forerunner, but is it any better than an iPhone on an armband? I've recently started using the latter as a way to time myself and monitor my pace, which has been fairly effective. The iPhone has a GPS too - anyone know if it's accurate enough to track running (and if so, some good apps for doing it)?

To gauge it's accuracy, you can easily test it. Run a known distance and see what it says. Put your run on google earth and compare the path it says you ran with what you know you ran. The forerunner 305 is old technology and is quite good in the open but quite bad near large obstacles. I would imagine a modern iphone would behave similarly.

 

[brikis98]

I find this quite odd, coming from you, the guy who insists on mimicking real life as much as possible with all other forms of exercise. Why is running an exception? Running a race may be a specific sport, but in other sports where you run, do you have guides around you that tell you exactly how fast to go?

I insist on "functional exercises", or exercises that produce adaptations that transfer well to real life. This does NOT mean that I only do exercises that mimic real life. For example, there are not many cases in the real world where I would ever need to do an overhead squat, but the exercise is still invaluable in building strength, balance, stability and mobility. Likewise, double-unders aren't something likely to be important in the real world, but the timing, agility, speed and endurance you get from them transfers very well to real world activities. On the other hand, exercises like leg extensions and bicep curls do not transfer very well to the real world, so I don't spend time on them.

In my opinion, the fitness gained from treadmill running transfers fairly well to the real world. It's certainly not perfect, but then again, nothing other than sport specific training is: C2 rowers aren't a perfect substitute for being on the water, stationary bikes aren't a perfect substitute for road bikes, power cleans aren't a perfect substitute for jumping, and so on. However, they all lay the foundation needed for those athletic movements and skill work (ie, actual running, biking, rowing and jumping) at them gets you the rest of the way. Just how much sport specific training you need depends on your goals: obviously, running specialists should spend tons of time running.

Sure, and lifting with machines builds up strength while occasionally lifting with free weights builds up stabilizer muscles.

I know the point you are trying to make, but for the record, the idea that some sort of magical "stabilizer muscles" are why you should do free weights is kind of dumb. Almost any muscle can be a "stabilizer muscle" depending on the exercise being performed. For example, all the muscles of the core (abs, obliques, erectors, etc) are "stabilizers" when squatting. And yet, that's not really why I squat. The real value of free weight exercises like the squat is that they typically involve (a) far more muscles in general and (b) require you to balance the weight and consequently develop proprioception. The latter is a big reason free weight exercises transfer well to the real world and machines don't: big, strong muscles are useless if you can't apply the force to objects in the real world which are not on convenient slide rails and fixed paths. This has little to do with "stabilizer muscles" and a whole lot to do with CNS adaptations to training.