Dakota Pipeline - Protestors Assaulted With Water Cannons In Freezing Weather

[JSt0rm]

You didn't answer my question. Define socialism "done right". I want some details.

Norway. The topic of discussion for the last few of my posts? Your turn. What % tax do you pay now?

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah but you want to leave our oil in the ground so under your ideals we would nationalize it and then send even more money overseas since we would use little or no domestic oil. You can't use the economic argument and the "leave it all in the ground until we use all of everyone else's" and the "we will make way more money if we nationalize our oil" argument 10 posts apart.

They would pull it out of the ground over the next 1000 years. Whats the problem? You didnt get to feast on it yourself? Thats the exact problem with the human brain. They feel they deserve everything.

 

[Darwin333]

I love how they always bring out the worst examples of anything as if we are teetering on the edge of being the worst instead of striving to be the best. Like if this country was ruled by the coasts we would all be in a much better place. The middle and south of the country drags us down.

The coasts have the vast majority of the .01% while the middle and south that are "dragging the coasts down" feed and fuel the coasts. The coasts would be on their knees within weeks of getting rid of the middle and south, so don't get all uppity.

 

[jackstar7]

The coasts have the vast majority of the .01% while the middle and south that are "dragging the coasts down" feed and fuel the coasts. The coasts would be on their knees within weeks of getting rid of the middle and south, so don't get all uppity.

CA has agribusiness and oil. Pretty sure until it drops off the country, it'd be fine on its own.

And that doesn't even factor in the tech and culture.

 

[Darwin333]

They would pull it out of the ground over the next 1000 years. Whats the problem? You didnt get to feast on it yourself? Thats the exact problem with the human brain. They feel they deserve everything.

So we would get zero economic advantage from it now, your singular argument of nationalizing it, and we'd keep it in reserve well past the point that it was no longer valuable. Absolutely great idea!

 

[imported_tajmahal]

CA has agribusiness and oil. Pretty sure until it drops off the country, it'd be fine on its own.

And that doesn't even factor in the tech and culture.

You mean all those red areas in your state? The ones you're stealing their water from and putting out of business? Why would they stick with the coastal elite rebels?

 

[jackstar7]

I, for one, would appreciate less pollution and a stronger push toward nuclear, solar, hydro, etc.

 

[jackstar7]

You mean all those red areas in your state? The ones you're stealing their water from and putting out of business? Why would they stick with the coastal elite rebels?

They are welcome to leave, I guess. Then we'll see what happens when the communes or whatever else you imagine takes over. Probably orgies aplenty. Lots of nice looking people out here.

 

[Darwin333]

CA has agribusiness and oil. Pretty sure until it drops off the country, it'd be fine on its own.

And that doesn't even factor in the tech and culture.

Seriously? Cali only supplies a 1/3 of it's oil to it's own refineries which doesn't even touch on the refined petrochemicals, including gas and diesel, that are imported from other states. Oh yeah, how would Cali do if it had to source all of it's own water and fuck all of those other states? I haven't even googled this but does Cali even produce enough electricity on it's own to keep the lights on?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

They are welcome to leave, I guess. Then we'll see what happens when the communes or whatever else you imagine takes over. Probably orgies aplenty. Lots of nice looking people out here.

Why would they leave when they can just tell the city folk to screw off, shut off your food and oil supplies and wait for you to eat each other (and not in a good way)

 

[jackstar7]

You guys are hilarious.

Take a deep breath and look at what you're going on about. It is silly.


Though I would like less pollution. And ideally no pipeline.

 

[FelixDeCat]

...

 

[K1052]

Seriously? Cali only supplies a 1/3 of it's oil to it's own refineries which doesn't even touch on the refined petrochemicals, including gas and diesel, that are imported from other states. Oh yeah, how would Cali do if it had to source all of it's own water and fuck all of those other states? I haven't even googled this but does Cali even produce enough electricity on it's own to keep the lights on?

California does have substantial remaining oil and gas reserves that the state has largely not elected to tap due to environmental concerns, that's not to say it couldn't technically be done if required. I don't think it would be anyway as nearly all the oil coming to CA refineries is either sourced from foreign countries or produced in CA with a very small minority brought down from Alaska. So basically it would be business as usual on that front.

Water would be a problem, mostly for the growers and LA. This is more easily solvable in urban areas if there was pressure. Agriculture would have to change a lot but it's possible. The slow motion version of this is already playing out now. Assuming Nevada and the NW comes along it would be slightly less of a problem.

CA imports about 30% of it's power from neighboring states at present. Presumably the Northwest and Nevada would go along with CA since all their economies are tied at the hip and a lot of that power is generated there and sold to CA. I'll guess they'd have to make up for a 10%ish shortfall which, while temporality inconvenient, is achievable.

This is all crazy talk anyway but amusing lol.

 

[SMOGZINN]

So we would get zero economic advantage from it now, your singular argument of nationalizing it, and we'd keep it in reserve well past the point that it was no longer valuable. Absolutely great idea!

I doubt if oil is ever going to lose it's value. It is just too energy dense and too easy to get and use all that energy. As oil reserves world wide go down the price is going to continue to go up. Sooner or later (and probably sooner rather than later) the world is going to start fighting over who gets to use the world's oil supply, and then we will be glad we have a lot of it.

 

[K1052]

I doubt if oil is ever going to lose it's value. It is just too energy dense and too easy to get and use all that energy. As oil reserves world wide go down the price is going to continue to go up. Sooner or later (and probably sooner rather than later) the world is going to start fighting over who gets to use the world's oil supply, and then we will be glad we have a lot of it.

Forever is a long time.

Given that 80% of our oil is used for transportation and viable alternatives are emerging at an increasing rate while their costs come down I don't think I'd make the same prediction.

 

[JSt0rm]

Norway is a country, not an answer. If you like its system you need to describe why you do, and why giving away 50% of our income is worth it. Otherwise your argument is falling short.

Its already been discussed. But you are clearly not willing to engage in a conversation. What is it you fear by walking down this path with me?

oh and I said 45% and thats 45% of gdp. Taxes per person are 38% or so.

 

[JSt0rm]

Forever is a long time.

Given that 80% of our oil is used for transportation and viable alternatives are emerging at an increasing rate while their costs come down I don't think I'd make the same prediction.

oil is an amazing substance that we throw away by burning.

 

[Darwin333]

Forever is a long time.

Given that 80% of our oil is used for transportation and viable alternatives are emerging at an increasing rate while their costs come down I don't think I'd make the same prediction.

Exactly, I'm guessing in the next two decades the oil we use for transportation is either going to have dropped dramatically or at the very least going to start dropping dramatically. At that point oil is going to become vastly less important and lose a metric ton of it's value. We are already developing a lot of synthetics for other stuff we use oil for and will continue to do so. I can foresee a time in the not so distant future that oil is worth less than it costs to take out of the ground.

 

[FelixDeCat]

....

 

[imported_tajmahal]

California does have substantial remaining oil and gas reserves that the state has largely not elected to tap due to environmental concerns, that's not to say it couldn't technically be done if required. I don't think it would be anyway as nearly all the oil coming to CA refineries is either sourced from foreign countries or produced in CA with a very small minority brought down from Alaska. So basically it would be business as usual on that front.

Water would be a problem, mostly for the growers and LA. This is more easily solvable in urban areas if there was pressure. Agriculture would have to change a lot but it's possible. The slow motion version of this is already playing out now. Assuming Nevada and the NW comes along it would be slightly less of a problem.

CA imports about 30% of it's power from neighboring states at present. Presumably the Northwest and Nevada would go along with CA since all their economies are tied at the hip and a lot of that power is generated there and sold to CA. I'll guess they'd have to make up for a 10%ish shortfall which, while temporality inconvenient, is achievable.

This is all crazy talk anyway but amusing lol.

Why would the northern, central and eastern parts of California want to go with the coastal elites? There's already a move by some counties to secede from California and make the new State of Jefferson. Most people don't realize just how fragile the big urban population centers really are.

 

[JSt0rm]

Personal information is none of your business, but suffice it to say, it is much less than the 50% (or 45%) that it would take to pay for stupid socialist programs.

This is why you are stupid. You won't even play a brain game with me for fear of enlightenment.

 

[JSt0rm]

Why would the northern, central and eastern parts of California want to go with the coastal elites? There's already a move by some counties to secede from California and make the new State of Jefferson. Most people don't realize just how fragile the big urban population centers really are.

You are living a dream. How are the economic juggernauts that are the cities fragile?

 

[bshole]

So we would get zero economic advantage from it now, your singular argument of nationalizing it, and we'd keep it in reserve well past the point that it was no longer valuable. Absolutely great idea!

If we ever have a war with a 1st world nation, it would be critical to survival. I tend to agree with js that we should just keep it in the ground and use everybody else's.

 

[JSt0rm]

oil is so cheap and we are pumping ours now. For no reason other then jerbs

 

[Darwin333]

If we ever have a war with a 1st world nation, it would be critical to survival. I tend to agree with js that we should just keep it in the ground and use everybody else's.

That's also not a good argument because of the time it takes to find it and bring it to the market, the war would be over by the time we started to refine the first drop. Unless of course you are talking about drilling the wells, capping said wells and pre-building the infrastructure to get it to where it needs to go. Then we'd have an actual "backup plan" but just not exploring and not drilling in case of emergency is a shitty plan.