Dad allegedly trying to protect daughter charged with murder in Humansville

[her209]

http://www.news-leader.com/article/...g-protect-daughter-charged-murder-Humansville

Was this a good shoot? The now dead guy pushed the shooter's daughter twice and punched the windshield of the shooter's truck, breaking it on the second punch.

 

[alzan]

1) Grandfather Ball had no business going to his daughter's home in the first place.

2) Kristy's boyfriend should not have gone out to the truck.

3) BF shouldn't have pushed Kristy away but he doesn't appear to have done it with malice.

4) BF shouldn't have punched windshield.

5) Grandfather went above and beyond on the stupid scale when he shot the boyfriend.

Conclusion: Hotheads need to cool down. All charges are valid and called for although the bail amount should be higher.

Bad shoot!!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

1) Grandfather Ball had no business going to his daughter's home in the first place.

2) Kristy's boyfriend should not have gone out to the truck.

3) BF shouldn't have pushed Kristy away but he doesn't appear to have done it with malice.

4) BF shouldn't have punched windshield.

5) Grandfather went above and beyond on the stupid scale when he shot the boyfriend.

Conclusion: Hotheads need to cool down. All charges are valid and called for although the bail amount should be higher.

Bad shoot!!

Sounds like a whole chain of bad, but I'll conditionally disagree on point #1. If I thought my daughter was in danger I'd be there no matter how far away she was. Domestic violence is often low on police priority and if I had reason to believe this a real possibility you couldn't keep me away. Also consider that we had a man who punched out a windshield and that's not a normal act. We might be looking at a "last straw" situation where there was violence before. The OP made a thread where a woman killed her son because she thought he was gay. Would it have been better to let a boyfriend kill a daughter?

I'm not saying my scenario reflects the facts but it seems likely that this "argument" wasn't the first trouble she had.

 

[alzan]

Sounds like a whole chain of bad, but I'll conditionally disagree on point #1. If I thought my daughter was in danger I'd be there no matter how far away she was. Domestic violence is often low on police priority and if I had reason to believe this a real possibility you couldn't keep me away. Also consider that we had a man who punched out a windshield and that's not a normal act. We might be looking at a "last straw" situation where there was violence before. The OP made a thread where a woman killed her son because she thought he was gay. Would it have been better to let a boyfriend kill a daughter?

I'm not saying my scenario reflects the facts but it seems likely that this "argument" wasn't the first trouble she had.

I'll admit to the possibility that the daughter and boyfriend had troubles prior to the incident but without facts that's a lot of assumption to swallow.

I don't have any data to support it but I'd say a significant number of domestic disturbance calls are placed to the police by neighbors and relatives. Grandpa could've called in the problem and let the police, who would've had cooler heads, handle the issue.

I agree that I'd have trouble staying away from a potentially violent situation involving a daughter or son but I wouldn't take a gun to a vocal argument.

Both the BF and Grandpa escalated the situation; had the BF not been shot dead he should be facing criminal charges as well.

 

[Genx87]

Police and cooler heads lol. Have you been paying attention to how many times the police escalate the situation and somebody gets shot?

 

[Newell Steamer]

Kristy Ball told officers that Houston pushed her in the process of trying to get past her and that her father said he would shoot Houston if he pushed Kristy again.

Oh, instead of calling the police?

Better yet, call the police when the 1st shoving happened.

Sure the cops won't teleport in, or even show up for a while,... but, he could have covered his ass. Then, AFTER the call was made, you start the good ole boy herp-a-derpin.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Police and cooler heads lol. Have you been paying attention to how many times the police escalate the situation and somebody gets shot?

So, let the cops shoot this asshole (the boyfriend).

Instead, someone who wanted to vindicate his daugther is charged with murder. Lets be honest, she wasn't in real danger, this guy wanted to kill the man who pushed his little princess.

Vindictive behavior doesn't fly too well in this country.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Police and cooler heads lol. Have you been paying attention to how many times the police escalate the situation and somebody gets shot?

That can happen but lots of calls are handled but like anything else we only hear about things gone wrong. More likely is that a beating would happen and nothing done.

My point however is that we don't know the background to judge anyone's actions based on so little information.

 

[her209]

1) Grandfather Ball had no business going to his daughter's home in the first place.

2) Kristy's boyfriend should not have gone out to the truck.

3) BF shouldn't have pushed Kristy away but he doesn't appear to have done it with malice.

4) BF shouldn't have punched windshield.

5) Grandfather went above and beyond on the stupid scale when he shot the boyfriend.

Conclusion: Hotheads need to cool down. All charges are valid and called for although the bail amount should be higher.

Bad shoot!!

Castle Doctrine extends to the truck. AFAICT, Grandpa never exited the vehicle. Grandpa can claim that punch out the windshield of his truck consisted of a violent act against his property and he felt his life and the life of his passengers were in danger. Its not like Houston threw popcorn in Gramp's face.

As for not exiting the vehicle to help Houston, he has no duty to do so if he believes Houston is still capable of doing harm, i.e., concealed knife or gun.

 

[waggy]

1) Grandfather Ball had no business going to his daughter's home in the first place.

2) Kristy's boyfriend should not have gone out to the truck.

3) BF shouldn't have pushed Kristy away but he doesn't appear to have done it with malice.

4) BF shouldn't have punched windshield.

5) Grandfather went above and beyond on the stupid scale when he shot the boyfriend.

Conclusion: Hotheads need to cool down. All charges are valid and called for although the bail amount should be higher.

Bad shoot!!

i agree to a point #1 i kinda disagree. IF i thought my daughter was in danger and getting hurt damn right i would be over.

I am not sure 100% either way though. both made some mistakes. the boyfriend shouldn't have continued to commit battery on his daughter. then he hit the windshield. Teh an continued to escalate the violence when the old man didn't exit the vehicle.

 

[Wreckem]

Castle Doctrine extends to the truck. AFAICT, Grandpa never exited the vehicle. Grandpa can claim that punch out the windshield of his truck consisted of a violent act against his property and he felt his life and the life of his passengers were in danger. Its not like Houston threw popcorn in Gramp's face.

As for not exiting the vehicle to help Houston, he has no duty to do so if he believes Houston is still capable of doing harm, i.e., concealed knife or gun.

So its okay for someone threaten to kill someone and point a gun at them without there being any danger(a shove to move someone out of the way is not danger). Legally the guy who is dead could have killed the old guy and it would have been self defense on his part. Its a stretch to say the old guys shoot was good. Pulling a gun on someone and threatening to kill them without valid cause(what the old dude did) and then shooting them should not be protected. Baiting someone so you can kill them(what happened in this case) should not be protected.

 

[thraashman]

There are so many reasons here why the father acted wrongly. This is murder.

 

[Wreckem]

i agree to a point #1 i kinda disagree. IF i thought my daughter was in danger and getting hurt damn right i would be over.

I am not sure 100% either way though. both made some mistakes. the boyfriend shouldn't have continued to commit battery on his daughter. then he hit the windshield. Teh an continued to escalate the violence when the old man didn't exit the vehicle.

If the report is correct, his pushing her away/out of the way as she tries to block his path/restrain him would NOT BE CONSIDERED battery. Nor does it justify pulling a gun and threatening to kill someone.

Furthermore it sounds like the father was on Balls property uninvited. Threatening to kill someone on their own property isn't going to lead to a justified shoot most of the time. There was no danger to the daughter(the daughter was trying to restrain/restrict balls movement, a person cannot do that to another so push aside wouldn't battery), the father was at the residence where Ball resided uninvited, he threatened to kill Ball for no valid reason. If anyone had the right to self defense in the case it was Ball not the father.

 

[Rakehellion]

Steven Ball is charged with first-degree murder, armed criminal action, unlawful use of a weapon and endangering the welfare of a child, the last charge because his grandson was standing near where Ball allegedly fired.

Sounds about right.

 

[dphantom]

based on the story so far, appears to be the correct charges.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Hard to say. Driving over to check on the wellbeing of your daughter is not illegal. Similarly, walking up to the truck is also not illegal. Trying to attack the person in his vehicle by going as far as punching the windshield through is an assault and IMO the grandfather was justified in defending himself. The problem here is that it's not the whole story. I have problem with Granfather warning he will shoot. Was that a threat or a warning he will defend himself/his daughter? Also grandfather saying "let him sit and die" doesn't help his cause either. Basically, hard to say with the facts we have right now. I could see it going either way depending on what we find out later.

 

[Knowing]

Hard to say. Driving over to check on the wellbeing of your daughter is not illegal. Similarly, walking up to the truck is also not illegal. Trying to attack the person in his vehicle by going as far as punching the windshield through is an assault and IMO the grandfather was justified in defending himself. The problem here is that it's not the whole story. I have problem with Granfather warning he will shoot. Was that a threat or a warning he will defend himself/his daughter? Also grandfather saying "let him sit and die" doesn't help his cause either. Basically, hard to say with the facts we have right now. I could see it going either way depending on what we find out later.

This.

I don't think it's ethical to respond to a push with lethal violence. I could go both ways on the "I will shoot you if..." on one hand that could be seen as a rural "offer you can't refuse" on the other hand a declaration of intent. This clearly amped up the boyfriend who shouldn't have damaged the integrity of the vehicle because as I see it, as soon as he was trying to enter the vehicle they did have cause to shoot him.

 

[Vic]

The “let him sit there and die" part is where he's going to be convicted. His actions up to that point were arguably justifiable, but Houston posed no threat to him while he was bleeding out.

 

[SaurusX]

The police would have shot this guy if they had been called and showed up first and he punched a hole through their windshield. There's no doubt in my mind. They would not have had charges filed against them.

 

[fleshconsumed]

The police would have shot this guy if they had been called and showed up first and he punched a hole through their windshield. There's no doubt in my mind. They would not have had charges filed against them.

I agree that punching a hole through the windshield is an assault and justifies deadly response. However, in cases like these intent and circumstances matter. As I wrote in my last post 1) prior to the shooting the grandfather warned/threatened (unclear which) to shoot the guy and 2) post shooting he has said "let him sit and die". The article lacks details on the verbal exchange between grandfather and his daughter's fiance prior to the shooting, the grandfather could have said anything, but whatever he said can either be construed as a warning as in "if you harm me or my daughter I will be forced to respond with a deadly force" or a threat as in "you're a POS and I'm going to shoot your sorry ass". Depending on which one it is, the shooting can be either self defense or a second degree murder. Unfortunately, the "let him sit and die" strongly supports that it was the latter.

 

[alzan]

Hard to say. Driving over to check on the wellbeing of your daughter is not illegal. Similarly, walking up to the truck is also not illegal. Trying to attack the person in his vehicle by going as far as punching the windshield through is an assault and IMO the grandfather was justified in defending himself. The problem here is that it's not the whole story. I have problem with Granfather warning he will shoot. Was that a threat or a warning he will defend himself/his daughter? Also grandfather saying "let him sit and die" doesn't help his cause either. Basically, hard to say with the facts we have right now. I could see it going either way depending on what we find out later.

No it isn't but she did not ask her father to come over either.

From the article, "According to a probable cause statement, Ball thought he heard Houston and his daughter, Kristy Ball, arguing while he was on the phone with Kristy..."

The grandfather "invited" himself over, brought a gun and now the BF is dead, all because Grandpa "thought" she was arguing with her BF.

 

[fleshconsumed]

No it isn't but she did not ask her father to come over either.

From the article, "According to a probable cause statement, Ball thought he heard Houston and his daughter, Kristy Ball, arguing while he was on the phone with Kristy..."

The grandfather "invited" himself over, brought a gun and now the BF is dead, all because Grandpa "thought" she was arguing with her BF.

As I said before I have my doubts whether this is a self defense or second degree murder.

However, so what if she didn't ask him to come over? So what if he was "uninvited"? He was a free man to go wherever he wanted. You can't tell people where they can and cannot go. That doesn't make the shooting any more egregious as you're trying to imply.

 

[her209]

The “let him sit there and die" part is where he's going to be convicted. His actions up to that point were arguably justifiable, but Houston posed no threat to him while he was bleeding out.

Gramps doesn't know that. Houston could have been faking it to lure Gramps in and stab him or shoot him at close range.

 

[OverVolt]

This was murder. Gramps knows it. I don't think he cares.

 

[MongGrel]

Wasn't there but sounds like first degree murder to me.

Case closed.