Customer brings back PC after a month and 6 days?

[VirtualLarry]

Not sure what to do about this situation.

Customer bought a Gateway AIO PC from me Sept 03. List price was $500 on Staples' website, I sold it for less than half of that. I acquired it from the store as a demo model, and I used it personally for a few months before I decided to sell it. The price was basically commensurate with the performance, it's not a high-performance machine, but compared to this customer's old Pentium 4 2.8Ghz box that they had asked me about installing Win7 on, it was about 3x the performance of that.

So I gave them a good deal.

I also let them try it out briefly before selling it. (They had the option of testing it for any reasonable amount of time, but they said "I'll take it", pretty much right away when they saw it, and I demoed the good speakers and Win8 for them.)

So I didn't sell it to them blind.

Now, I don't give refunds. I didn't explicitly tell them that when they purchased it, but they didn't ask, either. I give a limited hardware warranty of 6 months on used computers / hardware I sell.

The client called me, asked me if they could bring the computer over, complained that they were doing Windows Updates, and some update didn't work right, so it showed "Reverting Updates" on the screen. They left it for 45 minutes, and then they shut it off and brought it to me. They said that whenever they powered it up, it would go back to that "Reverting Updates" screen.

I believed, at the time, that they simply wanted me to fix up the PC for them. I had a factory restore USB drive that I had saved, with the factory image on. I asked the client if they had anything important on the PC, such as pictures or documents. They said no.

So I did a "clean all", and restored the factory image. (Actually, given the opportunity, I first installed Win10TP briefly, played with it for all of 2 minutes, and then wiped it and put Win8 back on.)

So I called the client up, and told them that I had restored Windows 8 to their PC, and did all of the updates (first batch of 75 took 2.5 hours, second batch of 86 took 3.5 hours). Even though that technically wasn't covered by my warranty, I was doing the work for free as a favor.

Client tells me that they "don't want" the PC, it's "too slow", and "I'll continue to have problems with it".

Mind you, the computer is in perfect shape, hardware-wise.

Mind you, this is also way past any reasonable return window. (If they didn't want it in the first week, I could see potentially giving them a refund. BestBuy and Staples have a 14-day return policy on PCs. But past 30 days? C'mon.)

I feel a little bit used, since the client didn't tell me up front that they wanted a refund on the PC, rather they indicated that they wanted it fixed, at least that's what it sounded like. If they had told me that they simply wanted to return it, I would have told them not to bother dropping by with the PC.

So now I have the PC, and they don't want it back.

I told them that I would give them credit towards a different PC (I have plenty to sell, most faster than this one), but not a refund.

They said that they weren't too worried about that.

I consider this client a friend too, because they've helped me out personally in the past. That's partially why I've given them such good deals in the past, such as 50% and even 75% off labor, and ridiculously low prices on some of my (used) PCs.

I suspect that Windows 8 played a large part in this decision by them to attempt to return it. I suspect that they just got fed up with it. I offered to put Win8.1 on, but they wouldn't hear it.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the client went out and bought a crappy J1900 budget desktop later on, either. That's just how they are.

I've got a couple of nice Lenovo i3 computers, which are like 4-5x faster than the E1-2500 in this PC, but of course, I wouldn't be able to give them as large a discount as on this particular PC. (Considering that one of them is NIB, and one of them has been upgraded with an aftermarket PSU, and memory increased to 8GB.)

I'm just trying to figure out how to save this relationship with the client, and still try to profit from this transaction.

 

[pcgeek11]

After a month they should not expect a refund. That is asking too much from a friendship IMO. I would just say no, you need to pick up your computer and let them figure out what they are going to do.

I too have had people "friends" take advantage of me and I put an end to that. It is a business transaction and should be treated as such. You cannot mix the two, it doesn't work.

 

[Essence_of_War]

I'm a little confused. Did they actually ask for a refund, or do you feel like they're passive-aggressively hoping for one by just dumping the AIO off with you and not asking for it back?

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm a little confused. Did they actually ask for a refund, or do you feel like they're passive-aggressively hoping for one by just dumping the AIO off with you and not asking for it back?

Well, what would you think, if someone brought back something that you had sold them over a month ago, and told you that they didn't want it. Either they're gifting you back something you sold them, or they want a refund.

 

[inachu]

I have seen it all. Customers who install every god forbidden addon to their internet browser. Visit every god forbidden website that secretly install fake video drivers.

Infected beyond belief then blame it on the seller since they can not control themselves from visiting bad websites.

Yeah never blame customers for their stupidity and accept their return for a in store brochure for similar priced in house item only... NO CASH!

This will keep the customer honest indeed! Customers like that only deserve an ipad.

 

[corkyg]

This is really a social issue, i.e., are they really friends or simply acquaintances? If I valued their friendship more than the $$$, I would simply keep the monitor and give them their money back. I might even reduce the amount by a reasonable fee for having to repair the damage they have caused.

Snyway, to me it is simply a matter of how much I value the friendship. Oh, BTW, this is why I never sell anything to friends. It is often a good way to lose that relationship. I would rather give stuff away to charity and add it to my tax deduction list. 🙂

 

[biostud]

Since they knew what they bought they are not entitled to refunds. If they don't want it they can sell it to someone else just like you did.

 

[mfenn]

After a month they should not expect a refund. That is asking too much from a friendship IMO. I would just say no, you need to pick up your computer and let them figure out what they are going to do.

I too have had people "friends" take advantage of me and I put an end to that. It is a business transaction and should be treated as such. You cannot mix the two, it doesn't work.

Agree with this. If you're not good enough friends with somebody that they'll understand the distinction between a business transaction and a favor, then you should not be doing business with them.

EDIT: Also, this should be a lesson to you to come up with an invoice that lists the terms and conditions of the sale. Print two copies up for EVERY sale, one for you and one for them. Have the customer sign your copy before you hand over the goods.

I'm just trying to figure out how to save this relationship with the client, and still try to profit from this transaction.

Looking at it from a different perspective: what kind of friend tries to damage their friend's (ie. your) livelihood by asking him to take a loss on a business deal? That's not the sort of friend that I've want to keep.

 

[vailr]

Either they're gifting you back something you sold them, or they want a refund.

Call them back and say: "Your computer is ready for pick up", conveniently forgetting what they said about not wanting it back. That should induce them to actually spell out: whether they want a full refund (which is now past 30 days), credit towards a faster machine, donate it to Goodwill, or whatever.
If they insist on an "all in one" machine, there are options for roll-your-own "all in one" machines, where you buy a specialized monitor separately and add a Thin Mini-ITX motherboard into the back side of the monitor. Not super fast video, since it would be using the CPU's video output instead of a discrete video card.
Check the 2nd half of this video:
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-...s-4K-Display-Support-and-Thin-Mini-ITX-Boards
Another option: a used iMac running Windows 8.1.

 

[MongGrel]

I have seen it all. Customers who install every god forbidden addon to their internet browser. Visit every god forbidden website that secretly install fake video drivers.

Infected beyond belief then blame it on the seller since they can not control themselves from visiting bad websites.

Yeah never blame customers for their stupidity and accept their return for a in store brochure for similar priced in house item only... NO CASH!

This will keep the customer honest indeed! Customers like that only deserve an ipad.

I rarely ever build things for friends or people I know because of this.

I remember the last time I went into a local PC place, and was a long time ago, they had built a "business" computer for some guy that was picking it up griping and they had wiped about 150 viruses off the thing and tried telling him how to prevent it.

Was interesting to listen to and was resisting the urge to grin a lot.

Actually, I probably did grin a lot was resting the urge to laugh.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yeah never blame customers for their stupidity and accept their return for a in store brochure for similar priced in house item only... NO CASH!
This will keep the customer honest indeed!

That's what I basically did, I said that they could have credit towards purchasing another, faster, PC. Which I will of course charge list price for, just because.

Since they knew what they bought they are not entitled to refunds. If they don't want it they can sell it to someone else just like you did.

That would be the rational way to look at this.

EDIT: Also, this should be a lesson to you to come up with an invoice that lists the terms and conditions of the sale. Print two copies up for EVERY sale, one for you and one for them. Have the customer sign your copy before you hand over the goods.

Yeah, it kind of happened so fast, I was a bit un-prepared. I went to my storage, picked up the PC, took it back to my apt., hooked it up and showed the client, and like that, they were like, "I'll take it", and handed me cash, and was out of there. Normally, I write up a small receipt.

The way I left it was, that they have credit towards another PC. I will attempt to work with them, to get them a PC they can like to use, but it seems like they want a caviar machine on a tuna-fish budget.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

You've got the money and the PC. I fail to see the problem, you hold all the cards, so to speak. Their impulsive purchase and inability to maintain their PC is simply another opportunity for you to prosper. If he want's the computer back it's $150.- time and labor or you can write off the charges if he does not want it back.

Business ain't charity and the "caviar for tuna prices" type customers are huge time/$$$ vampires.

 

[Sunrise089]

I don't see a need for passive-aggressive "it's ready for pickup [pause to let them ask for a refund]" and I definitely don't see a need to charge them for updating the machine when you didn't bring that up prior to the work.

I'd just let them know the computer is ready for pickup and should work fine, and that you can't offer a refund for it after such a long time, but like you told them previously you're willing to exchange it or take it back for credit. You keep the cash and you hopefully preserve the business relationship.

 

[Phynaz]

You're worried about making a profit from a friend?

 

[VirtualLarry]

You're worried about making a profit from a friend?

You don't think that my time, effort, and expertise deserve compensation? I'm not a slave to my friends either. Do you fix all of your friends and family PCs, for free, all the time?

I have a friend who is a mechanic. I paid him (IMHO, well), to work on my car. I wouldn't expect him to work on my car for free, just because I needed it and he was a mechanic.

 

[Majcric]

The friend part is where you're screwed. I don't even like putting together computers for friends and family as a result of being obligated to give free (lifetime) tech support.

 

[crashtech]

Maybe another frank discussion is called for. Seems like some people don't tend to communicate very directly and this can be a problem in business transactions. Figure out what the machine is worth in its present state and what you need to make to get it sold. That way if they don't want it back you will be armed with some numbers. I suspect they should only be owed a partial credit toward another machine of their choice.

 

[VirtualLarry]

As much as my "policy" would seem like I don't want the computer back (and I don't really want computers back, in general), this one isn't so bad. I kind of liked this one, I just wasn't so happy with Windows 8 myself, so I decided to sell off my three Windows 8 machines. But it has great speakers / sound. I'll just use it to listen to internet radio in my living room. Only problem is I only have so many computer desks, and this one is taking up my dining room table.

I suspect that my client just got fed up with Windows 8. They don't really like change, and wanted me to refurb their Pentium 4 computer with Windows 7. I think that they would prefer to use a slow-as-dirt Pentium 4 (with Win7) rather than using a modern Kabini-based AIO with Windows 8.

I offered to put 8.1 on there, but they wouldn't have it either.

I wonder if they decided on buying the PC, without talking to their S.O., and that caused some friction, that they decided the easiest way to deal with it was just to return it? I don't know for sure.

This client previously expressed interest in a Brazos (E-350) mini-ITX PC I had for sale, for dirt-cheap (basically for the cost of the Windows 7 license), twice telling me that they wanted it (but not making a payment), and then a week / month later saying that they weren't interested. I think that they have trouble making up their mind.

I should probably talk to them about a possible custom-built PC, but of course, I would be express and firm about no returns on a custom PC. But at least then, they could get Windows 7 on it.

Edit: Still selling for $385 new.
http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-ZX4270.../dp/B00F5V8NLC

Edit: Interesting, two reviews indicate that they tried to upgrade to Win8.1, and it rejected it, and went back to Windows 8.

I asked the client if they tried to upgrade to Windows 8.1 in the store, and they said they they didn't. But I wonder if they were telling the truth, or knew the difference?

But surely, rolling back from Windows 8.1 to Windows 8 would have taken longer than 45 minutes (I remember my Lenovo i3-3240 with a 7200RPM HDD taking three hours to update to Windows 8.1). Clearly if that's what happened, the client simply wasn't patient enough.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, personally I would never consider buying or selling a desktop with a kabini or atom processor. That said, you seemed to give the owners ample opportunity to investigate the performance before they made the purchase, so I don't think they are owed a refund. I don't think legally you are even required to give them a credit toward another computer, but it would be a nice gesture.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I just thought of something. I wonder if they registered the computer with Gateway. If they did, there's no way I can accept it back or even try to resell it.

I'll call them Monday and see what I can find out.

 

[Blain]

Not sure what to do about this situation...

I'm just trying to figure out how to save this relationship with the client, and still try to profit from this transaction.

Can't be done with a client who's thought process is as you've described.

If it were me, I'd eat the cost, resell the PC, not give them a big discount on hardware in the future, definitely institute a 30 day return (refund or credit is your call) on used hardware.

BTW, Why couldn't you resell the PC if it had been registered?
You'd be selling it as "used", no matter what... correct?

 

[Raizinman]

You broke a few rules:

1) Never sell to friends or family. Even if the computer breaks down years later, they will still remember you as the one who sold them the terrible computer.
2) Never let them bring the computer back to you. Always go to them and charge for your time, even if a minimal $25 service charge. Your time is worth money.
3) Most all stores NEVER give a refund on computers and neither should you. You can't stay in business like this.

To correct your situation/mess you got into. I would suggest that since you broke so many rules, that you break another and give a full refund with an apology.

 

[VirtualLarry]

BTW, Why couldn't you resell the PC if it had been registered?
You'd be selling it as "used", no matter what... correct?

Legal reasons. They could later come after me or whomever I sell the computer to and claim that it was stolen, and that they are the legal, registered owner.

 

[bononos]

You have to admit that it was a risk installing win8 for unsavvy customers. And you need some sort of boilerplate agreement on your receipts to deal with these sort of returns where theres nothing broken and the s/w works and you have to tell them about it too.

 

[Blain]

Legal reasons. They could later come after me or whomever I sell the computer to and claim that it was stolen, and that they are the legal, registered owner.

Can you ask the customer/friend if they did register the PC?
The Gateway site says that products can be re-registered after a sale or transfer.

"Warranties on Gateway computers are transferable from one customer to another after the original purchase.

The following are the conditions of the warranty transfer:
•The computer must be registered within the first year of warranty to the original purchaser of the computer.
•The warranty dates remain the same and the new owner will receive the remainder of the original warranty.

Once ownership of the computer has changed please contact Gateway support to re-register the computer"