Customer brings back PC after a month and 6 days?

[VirtualLarry]

You have to admit that it was a risk installing win8 for unsavvy customers. And you need some sort of boilerplate agreement on your receipts to deal with these sort of returns where theres nothing broken and the s/w works and you have to tell them about it too.

What do you mean "installing Win8"? That's what the PC came with. I was just reselling it.

Anyways, I just chatted Gateway support, and they said it wasn't registered, so that's a relief.

Also found out that the warranty is transferable.
http://gateway-us.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/224

 

[Burpo]

From a similar experience I had.. Sold a couple I knew a used system w/keyboard mouse & monitor. More than 30 days later they showed up at the shop with the PC demanding their money back because they said the monitor was dim. I offered them to swap it for a different monitor. They refused and again demanded their money back. I said you've had it over a month and there are no refunds. She said she wasn't leaving with out a refund & that she was going to call the police. The husband spoke up & said just give her the money back, she doesn't want the computer. I said there are no refunds. She called the police and they waited for them to come. When the officer arrived, they went out & spoke to him. They all came in and he asked my side of the story. I explain what happened & that I offered them a dif monitor, but they refused and demanded a refund. She's in the background running her mouth, and I told her to get out of my store. The cop looks at me and says That's how you want to handle this? I said Yes, get them off the premises. He starts trying to convince me to take a different approach (be nice), at which point I looked at the cop and said do your job! Get her outa here or do I have to call your boss? He turns around and says ma'am you have to leave. The husband then carts everything out to the car, including the dif monitor I offered. They had to leave with whatever I offered.. The end

 

[crashtech]

Friends don't sell friends PCs with tablet CPUs.

Only partially kidding. As someone with intimate knowledge of PCs, you should know that AIO has about half the CPU power of a 2.5GHz C2D. It's hardly better than the P4 it was supposed to replace, but since modern software expects to see something more, the net result can only be horrible performance.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Friends don't sell friends PCs with tablet CPUs.

Only partially kidding. As someone with intimate knowledge of PCs, you should know that AIO has about half the CPU power of a 2.5GHz C2D. It's hardly better than the P4 it was supposed to replace, but since modern software expects to see something more, the net result can only be horrible performance.

Again, nothing from this person indicated that they were a performance-oriented user. They fact that they had considered refurbishing their P4 2.8 indicated just the opposite.

And the price I offered my client was commensurate with the performance, considering that this was an AIO that included a nice monitor, good speakers, an OS, and even bluetooth.

Where are the hordes of Kabini defenders from the CPU & Overclocking forum when I need them?

Again, the top selling laptops on Amazon are Bay Trail. The vast majority of consumers are content with that level of performance, as long as they get a good price.

I'll admit, that personally, at $500 list, I wouldn't consider that a good value for the performance. But for $220?

 

[Essence_of_War]

Where are the hordes of Kabini defenders from the CPU & Overclocking forum when I need them?

They're too busy defending the idea of "kabini is good enough for the masses" while actually using kaveri, FX, or PIIx4/6 themselves

 

[Gunbuster]

Oh so sad, poor baby's $200 computer is not a superstar. People like that are not worth your time.

 

[crashtech]

Again, nothing from this person indicated that they were a performance-oriented user. They fact that they had considered refurbishing their P4 2.8 indicated just the opposite.

And the price I offered my client was commensurate with the performance, considering that this was an AIO that included a nice monitor, good speakers, an OS, and even bluetooth.

Where are the hordes of Kabini defenders from the CPU & Overclocking forum when I need them?

Again, the top selling laptops on Amazon are Bay Trail. The vast majority of consumers are content with that level of performance, as long as they get a good price.

I'll admit, that personally, at $500 list, I wouldn't consider that a good value for the performance. But for $220?

I didn't mean to make you defensive. Maybe I can convey more meaning with a personal example. In my own business, there is a lot of pressure to utilize lower cost materials and procedures because profit margins are very thin. But I have made the decision not to do this, staying instead with all top-shelf stuff. The problem with this is it effectively cuts off my ability to serve the low-end market in many cases. It's been hard to learn to say no, but in the long run, it seems that a reputation for poor quality is FAR more damaging that pricing yourself out of the reach of a few.

Basically I employ this mentality in my side PC business as well. A low end PC for me starts around $300 without an OS, which means the bottom rung is $400 for most people. And not too many people take me up on that, most of my business is in the midrange. The people that want the cheapest machine go get one of those "best sellers" you are talking about. What their true satisfaction is, though, is probably not entirely discernible just from volume of sales.

Just my two cents, no hard feelings.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Basically I employ this mentality in my side PC business as well. A low end PC for me starts around $300 without an OS, which means the bottom rung is $400 for most people. And not too many people take me up on that, most of my business is in the midrange. The people that want the cheapest machine go get one of those "best sellers" you are talking about. What their true satisfaction is, though, is probably not entirely discernible just from volume of sales.

Just my two cents, no hard feelings.

Thanks for clarifying. Now I see what you mean. My clientele is generally lower-income people, sadly. Thus my focus on extreme-budget rigs, and taking as much advantage of Hot Deals as I can to snag cheap parts that I can use to cobble together PCs with.

Maybe I'm taking the wrong approach, though, and your approach is much wiser.

One thing that I do do, is use SSDs predominately in my custom builds.

Unfortunately, this AIO has no visible screws to take it apart, otherwise I might upgrade it to an SSD.

I get a little sketched out having to do plastic-snap work, I always seem to mar the finish a little bit, and then it loses its "perfect" appearance, and looks like crap. (One reason I don't replace laptop screens.)

 

[crashtech]

I will replace screens in the refurbed Thinkpads I sell, because I know how to work on them and parts are very plentiful.

Come to think of it, a refurb Thinkpad is where I steer customers who want something cheap but decent.

I feel a duty to educate customers (as much as they want to be) on why for instance a $275 used Thinkpad will run rings around new stuff in the same price bracket.

 

[crashtech]

Thanks for clarifying. Now I see what you mean. My clientele is generally lower-income people, sadly. Thus my focus on extreme-budget rigs, and taking as much advantage of Hot Deals as I can to snag cheap parts that I can use to cobble together PCs with.

Maybe I'm taking the wrong approach, though, and your approach is much wiser.

I'm not sure about the last part, I just know what works for me. I think it is because as a small vendor it may be more effective to go the "boutique" approach, where you are not just selling a product, you are selling your knowledge and no-hassle service. Big companies will beat you down on price all day long. There's really no way a little guy can compete that way, imo. But if you learn how to convey useful knowledge about the products, and people perceive you as friendly, helpful, and knowledgeable, that is an arena where you can beat the big guys all day long.

 

[JackMDS]

Can't be done with a client who's thought process is as you've described.

If it were me, I'd eat the cost, resell the PC, not give them a big discount on hardware in the future, definitely institute a 30 day return (refund or credit is your call) on used hardware.

BTW, Why couldn't you resell the PC if it had been registered?
You'd be selling it as "used", no matter what... correct?

+1

 

[KeithP]

Legal reasons. They could later come after me or whomever I sell the computer to and claim that it was stolen, and that they are the legal, registered owner.

Seems like a signed return receipt would take care of that issue.

-KeithP

 

[mfenn]

Where are the hordes of Kabini defenders from the CPU & Overclocking forum when I need them?

They get stymied by the fanboy detection system I installed at the door to GH a while back.

<---- this guy

 

[Phynaz]

You don't think that my time, effort, and expertise deserve compensation? I'm not a slave to my friends either. Do you fix all of your friends and family PCs, for free, all the time?

I have a friend who is a mechanic. I paid him (IMHO, well), to work on my car. I wouldn't expect him to work on my car for free, just because I needed it and he was a mechanic.

As a rule I don't do business with friends. I would never charge a friend for computer work and I would't expect them to charge me.

My next door neighbor just did some welding for me. The mention of money never came up.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Thanks for clarifying. Now I see what you mean. My clientele is generally lower-income people, sadly. Thus my focus on extreme-budget rigs, and taking as much advantage of Hot Deals as I can to snag cheap parts that I can use to cobble together PCs with.

All the more reason to have ironclad no return policy. Upsell additional support services for $19.95 per month. Upsell free diagnostic screenings for life if they purchase support services for a year in advance. Upsell yourself and your time because razor thin margins on budget equipment mean you get to eat cat food and ramen tonight.

 

[mistersprinkles]

You sold them the computer. They got to try it first. If it's too slow that's T.S. They should have noticed that when they tested it. I think they owe you another $100 for reinstalling windows and updating it for them, though you're a doink for putting 300 updates on. You never do that. Important updates ONLY. Always.

Anyways, these otherwise very nice people I'm sure think they can do anything they want, they can't. Tell them to either take the computer back, or not. Either way they aren't getting one penny out of you. I'd tell them they owed you another $100 personally.

Inappropriate language removed.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[VirtualLarry]

though you're a doink for putting 300 updates on. You never do that. Important updates ONLY. Always.

Those were the important updates. I take it you've never freshly-installed Win7 or 8?

Your other points were well-taken, except that I think you need a little tact.

 

[crashtech]

Can the user can really be 100% blamed for not realizing what a dog that AIO was right away? Did they base their decision on trust in Larry as a computer guy that would not steer them wrong?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Can the user can really be 100% blamed for not realizing what a dog that AIO was right away? Did they base their decision on trust in Larry as a computer guy that would not steer them wrong?

I guess perhaps I should have shown them some numbers at cpubenchmark.net. I guess I trusted that they would be able to decide for themselves if the computer was "slow".

Edit: See, I don't even know that I would say that it's a "dog". I've been using it the last few days for web browsing and listening to internet radio. (Did I mention the great speakers?)

Yes, it's towards the slower end of the PC spectrum, and browsing Newegg or TigerDirect bogs down a bit with Waterfox, but overall, it's not horrible.

I guess it depends on what my client used it for, or perhaps they thought it was just slow doing updates (it is, but so are most other machines to one extent or another. I've had machines with SSDs and much faster CPUs still take an hour to do updates on a fresh install.)

Skype does take a huge chunk of the CPU time though, especially with the HD webcam that's built-in. I remember when I was using it before I sold it, running Skype video-chatting, listening to internet radio using Flash Player, and web browsing all at the same time (oh, and running BOINC Einstein@home on the IGP), made it bog down something fierce, something that doesn't happen with my G630 rig with a dGPU.

Edit: TBH, using my Q9300 @ 3.0, and doing BOINC on the GT630 384SP video card, and web browsing, it's nearly as slow as the E1-2500 in the AIO.

 

[crashtech]

So what are you going to do, anyway? Have you talked to them?

 

[VirtualLarry]

So what are you going to do, anyway? Have you talked to them?

I called them today. They were busy, so I told them to call me back some time when they were free, I just wanted to discuss a few things with them.

I already said that I couldn't give them cash back, but that I was willing to give them credit in the amount of the purchase price towards a different computer.

I just want to get a sense of what they didn't like about this one, was it the speed? Was it Windows 8? I kind of got a sense from them saying that they "would just have trouble with" this computer, like it was somehow pre-ordained, when the PC's hardware was fine, and they just didn't have enough patience for the software. (Turning the PC off in the middle of doing updates, actually, "reverting updates", when it explicitly tells you not to turn off the PC.)

I have some pre-built Lenovo i3 machines (3.4Ghz with HyperThreading, anywhere from 4-5x as fast as the CPU in this thing), that I wouldn't mind unloading. But again, they are Windows 8. If the client's problem is primarily with Windows 8, then I will try to steer them towards a custom computer with Windows 7 and SSD.

I need to find some way to make it clear, though, that you will have to pay for performance, either CPU (i3) or disk (SSD). You can't get away with paying only $200 for a PC, and get one that is top-end, performance-wise.

I have most of the parts to build some S775 ITX rigs, I just need PSU + case, and OS. An E3300 (2.5Ghz C2D dual-core), and 4GB of DDR2-667/800, and a 40GB Kingston (Intel X25-V) SSD, would make a potent browser / Skype machine. I was thinking of using them myself for that, actually. Maybe a 128GB SSD if they wanted more room. I have a couple of M500 SSDs in stock right now that are BNIB.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=677&cmp[]=2019

This client has expressed interest previously in ITX rigs, and says that they want to get away from the "big towers".

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...41&amp;ignorebbr=1
ECS H61 mini-ITX $35.99
I built my HTPC with that board. It's decent (well, I had to spend a little time debugging it, since it's ECS.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...05&amp;ignorebbr=1
iStarUSA ITX case + 120W laptop-style PSU brick. $61.98

S775 Intel mini-ITX mobo $35
E3300 Intel C2D dual-core $20
2x2GB (4GB) DDR2-667/800 $50
iStarUSA mini-ITX case+PSU $62
Kingston 40GB SSD $30
total: $197
Windows 7 64-bit OEM $100

 

[crashtech]

Would trying to run Windows Update in the background while a couple other things are running along with web browsing make a machine like that unusable?

I have found that Windows 8 is palatable to those coming from 7, Vista, or XP as long as one of the simple Start Menu replacement programs is installed. I've used StartIsBack and Start8, they both seem OK, and they are cheap.

Edit: I just looked at the Passmark ST numbers for the E1-2500, and wow, are they in the basement. E1-2500 scores 514 while a CPU like the P4 2.8GHz scores 633 (I just threw a couple of those in the trash).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Would trying to run Windows Update in the background while a couple other things are running along with web browsing make a machine like that unusable?

Maybe. It depends on what "a couple of other things" are. Skype, definitely.

I have found that Windows 8 is palatable to those coming from 7, Vista, or XP as long as one of the simple Start Menu replacement programs is installed. I've used StartIsBack and Start8, they both seem OK, and they are cheap.

Maybe I should have pre-installed a start screen replacement program.

Edit: I just looked at the Passmark ST numbers for the E1-2500, and wow, are they in the basement. E1-2500 scores 514 while a CPU like the P4 2.8GHz scores 633 (I just threw a couple of those in the trash).

Yeah, ST scores aren't so hot, but MT isn't horrible. Still, they are definitely not the snappiest of machines. And this one has a 5400RPM HDD, as far as I know. (Laptop drive?)

The thing is, this is a "contemporary" machine. Or was, until the Bay Trail model superseded it. List price is an amazingly-high $500.

If you figure a decent-quality 1600x900 19.5" LED LCD screen is worth $90, and Windows 8 64-bit OEM is $90, then $40 for the rest of the computer really isn't bad. Not to mention, it comes with 2.4Ghz/5Ghz wifi + bluetooth, and a mouse and keyboard.

 

[escrow4]

Hand over heart, if I did own a business selling PC's or laptops, none of them would contain anything slower than an i3. Period. E1-2500 or Bay Trail or Kabini are just trash. Celeron or Pentium are only a small step up. Forget the price - $200 is nothing for a complete PC and you will get nothing but pain.

You buy a PC for home, especially an AIO, it will be used as an all-rounder (isn't that the point?) and it will be slow. So so slow. I still have a G1610 somewhere, it really was crap. You could feel a definite difference between it and an i3 3220, never mind the 4770 I use daily now.

Tell him the truth, you wanted cheap and you got cheap. Too bad. And last I clean installed 8.1 on this 1TB EVO, updates and install were done in an hour.

 

[crashtech]

...I still have a G1610 somewhere, it really was crap. You could feel a definite difference between it and an i3 3220, never mind the 4770 I use daily now.

Funny you say that, because the G1610 is miles better than the E1-2500. Matter of fact I have one sitting hare right now that came back in for a wonky hard drive. It works plenty fine because (for once) they listened to me and haven't installed a bunch of crap except for the Ask Toolbar by mistake.

The G1610's Passmark ST score is 1402, almost 3 times the E1-2500...