Custom build versus Out-of-the Box: Input please

[mfenn]

I guess the same applies to Dell. I've been loyal to them for a long time (4 desktops and 2 laptops) but I am annoyed because of the lack of flexibility with the components. That 8100 still looks sort of OK, but I don't like that it has such a low-rated PSU and don't get me started on the GPUs... That's why I was counting on my friend (the "builder", but really agree with those who said suggesting a pricey ATI gamer card for a system intended for heavy CS5 use is pretty ludicrous. (If even I am questioning that I don't even want to think about the stuff I know nothing about.) And I don't approve of the AMD or nothing approach either. I've searched for a reputable builder in the NYC area, but came up dry: I guess everyone's buying HPs and Dells no questions asked...

Are you really that uncomfortable assembling it yourself? When you build you own, you have the luxury of picking and choosing the perfect parts for your own specific situation.

 

[dg27]

I've never dealt with mobos or PSUs, though I've swapped in just about everything else on three of my desktops over the years. My main concern is that the system I'm looking to replace is used for business as well as 'pleasure' and I can't afford the downtime or run the risk of f'ing something up due to my inexperience. But that's a cart-before-the horse issue anyway because I can't even get out of the gate in terms of determining the some of the specs, particularly the mobo. I'm more comfortable with Intel out of habit and simply want the fastest I can afford. I just checked and I've had 10 different builds spec'd out, all of which were widely panned by those who know more than I do.And it was only this week that I learned here and via subsequent googling that I really do need an Nvidia card due to my reliance on Adobe... I wish this were more like buying a car! It's not like I'm trying to cut corners... Sorry for the semi-rant.

 

[Mycroft]

Others can offer better advice on the custom build vs. particular dell models, but I can say this:

I bought a Dell Studio 15 for web design purposes (no video editing), so using Adobe Web Premium CS3 primarily. I previously built a custom desktop (now 5 yrs old). Having gone both the custom and Dell routes, i can say that while it is nice to be able to call Dell 24/7 to get something fixed, you have to figure out the cost of getting a warranty that lasts more than a year. I got a 1 year warranty, and now that it's done, I'm in not so different of a situation as I have with the custom build. To even talk to Dell, I'd have to pay some $$. Then more $$ to have them fix it. I guess that I'd still have the option of going to Dell in a pinch to fix something, which can be more convenient than trying to get a buddy to fix your custom build. Food for thought.

 

[FishAk]

I wish this were more like buying a car!

Which part?

Buying from Dell, HP, Compaq, Gateway... isn't that just like buying a car?

You can change the wheels, paint, audio, a few other things, but they still only give you a limited choice.

 

[j03h4gLund]

Just build it yourself.... it's really not that bad.

I found a nice deal on a Dell a couple weeks ago... ended up around $1500 after about $400 savings.

I almost bit.

Now, after thinking and going to reuse my old HDD, case, OS, keyboard, mouse, dvd/cd drives, im building a rig that is nearly the same speed cpu , a much nicer LCD, better power supply, and a ~25% increase in gpu, thanks to newegg! I do like Dells, they make quality products - but building your own can save you money/add to teh system exactly where you need it like mfenn said. I am saving myself nearly $900 building it myself!


EDIT: thank god buying a computer is not like buying a car..... i used to work for Circuit City in PC sales, then i worked at a Chevy dealership in sales.... god id hate to be a car customer dealin with some of my old coworkers. talk about lying cheating scumbags.

 

[Zap]

My main concern is that the system I'm looking to replace is used for business as well as 'pleasure' and I can't afford the downtime or run the risk of f'ing something up due to my inexperience.

Because of this, I'd suggest one of Dell's premium lines. Pay extra for the next day on-site service.

 

[mfenn]

I've never dealt with mobos or PSUs, though I've swapped in just about everything else on three of my desktops over the years. My main concern is that the system I'm looking to replace is used for business as well as 'pleasure' and I can't afford the downtime or run the risk of f'ing something up due to my inexperience. But that's a cart-before-the horse issue anyway because I can't even get out of the gate in terms of determining the some of the specs, particularly the mobo. I'm more comfortable with Intel out of habit and simply want the fastest I can afford. I just checked and I've had 10 different builds spec'd out, all of which were widely panned by those who know more than I do.And it was only this week that I learned here and via subsequent googling that I really do need an Nvidia card due to my reliance on Adobe... I wish this were more like buying a car! It's not like I'm trying to cut corners... Sorry for the semi-rant.

Woah, this changes everything. I was assuming that you were doing your photo, etc. editing on the hobbyist level. If this is for your business, forget the consumer-level stuff that we've been discussing.

I'd look into a Dell Precision T3500 with 12GB of memory, at least a W3530, and a Quadro 4000. That should run you about $2700 with 3-year NBD onsite warranty. This double what you were looking at on the consumer side, but what's $1300 when compared to potentially days of downtime?

 

[dg27]

Thanks for your replies. I had been looking at the Dell Precisions, but I simply cannot swing the cost of those. Also, keep in mind that I'm replacing a P4 (Dell 8400): what I'm seeing is great, but like replacing a cap pistol with an Uzi. I need to be realistic in terms of what I can afford, what I've been using, and how much better anything I get would be than what I have.

I found a possible builder if I go that route and have pasted in two builds below. I really need for this to come in under $2000, preferably around $1800.

These are based on builds I found on another forum (someone else who does photo editing): I did a bit of mixing and matching.

Thanks again for all your sage advice--dg

Version 11

Component

Processor Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-211-_-Product

295.00

Motherboard

ASUS Sabertooth X58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-665-_-Product

200.00

Memory

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9T-12GBRL

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-356-_-Product

195.00

Power supply

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...rsair%20HX650W

120.00

Boot drive OCZ Agility 2 OCZSSD2-2AGTE120G 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...GB%20SATA%20II

230.00

Secondary drive

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136533

90.00

Optical drive 1

LG WH10LS30K 10X Blu-ray Burner - LightScribe Support - Bulk -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-181-_-Product

110.00

Optical drive 2

LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Writer LightScribe Support

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...l%20iHAS424-98

26.00

Video card

EVGA 012-P3-1470-AR GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-550-_-Product

260.00

Sound card: on board audio; may add card later
-
OS Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116758

140.00

Case COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0ABS%20ATX%20M

80.00
total: 1,746.00

Version 12

Component

Processor

Intel Core i7-950 Bloomfield 3.06GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor BX80601950

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-211-_-Product

295.00

Motherboard

GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128423

210.00

Memory

Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 998770

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226096

195.00

Power supply

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371015

100.00

Boot drive

Corsair Force CSSD-F120GB2-BRKT 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233125

230.00

Secondary drive

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152185

75.00

Optical drive 1

LG WH10LS30 Super Multi Blu-ray Rewriter - BD-R 10X, BD-R DL 8X, BD-RE 2X, DVD+R/-R 16X, DVD-RAM 12X, CD-R 48X, CD-RW 24X, BD-ROM 10X, DVD-ROM 16X, CD-ROM 48X, SATA (OEM)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...531&CatId=3636

140.00

Optical drive 2

LG GH22NS50B DVD Writer - w/o Software, DVDRW, 22X, SATA, OEM

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...13479&CatId=89

20.00

Video card

GIGABYTE GV-N470UD-13I GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-321-_-Product

245.00

Sound card: on board audio; may add card later 55.00

OS Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116758

140.00

Case COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...vanced%20Black

80.00

Total: 1,785.00

 

[mfenn]

Does your builder offer a 3-year warranty with NBD on-site service? If they don't, then you simply cannot afford to go with them.

If the Dell Precisions are too expensive, then go with an Optiplex. A business machine should never be custom built. Full stop. You can get an Optiplex 980 with an i5 760, 8GB of RAM, and a GeForce GT 330 for ~$1400.

I repeat, do not go with a custom builder who cannot offer NBD on-site service for a business machine.

 

[dg27]

Thanks for the warning, mfenn, but I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue.

With my current machine (5-yr old Dell 8400) I never had any issues that I didn't resolve myself, such as HDs tanking, which required replacement and a reinstall. In my 11 years of using Dells for 6 machines I never even utilized whatever warranties I had on the system itself. I've had a couple of IPS panels go bad under warranty, and those were quickly replaced. I've used my own system for business for years.

I will check out the Optiflex though.

dg

 

[mfenn]

You're a statistical outlier then. 🙂 All computers can fail, and IMHO it is unwise to have your livelihood riding on chance.

 

[dg27]

You're a statistical outlier then. 🙂

In more ways than one, or so I've been told!

Point certainly well taken.

I actually don't know the warranty terms yet, but this is through a very reputable computer repair outfit in New York who subcontracts builds for clients (that is, it's not via a posting in a laundromat or anything like that: it's an actual company). The company I know forwarded the above builds to them and they're supposed to come back with a formal bid.

dg

 

[dg27]

OK, as configured this comes in @ $1848.

Troubling issues:

Not sure about this CPU or the GPU (I want CUDA)
It's only got a 305W PSU. Concerned about that because I'd want to add @ least one HD plus a blu-ray burner...

BASE OptiPlex 960 Minitower Base Standard PSU
OPERATING SYSTEM

Genuine Windows® 7 Professional wXP Mode,No Media, 64-bit, English
PROCESSOR
Intel® Core™ 2 Quad Q9650 with VT (3.0GHz, 12M, 1333MHz FSB)

O
WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year ProSupport and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service

MEMORY 8GB DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM, 800MHz, (4DIMM)

MONITOR No Monitor

HARD DRIVE 160GB 10,000 RPM 3.5" SATA, 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with 16MB Cache

VIDEO CARD 256MB nVidia GeForce 9300 GE (Dual DVI/ VGA /1 TV-out), full height

OPTICAL DRIVE 16X DVD+/-RWand16X DVD,SATA,RoxioCreator; CyberlinkPowerDVD™,NoMedia edit

SPEAKERS Internal Dell Business Audio Speaker

FLOPPY & MEDIA READER Dell 19 in 1 Media Card Reader

ADDITIONAL NETWORK CARD Broadcom NetXtreme 10/100/1000 PCIe Gigabit Networking Card, Full Height

POWER SUPPLY OptiPlex 960 Minitower Standard Power Supply

 

[mfenn]

There's no point in buying a new 960 since the 980 is out and pricing is similar. The 960 is only still around for corporations who want a long-term stable desktop.

 

[dg27]

Update: Apparently the 980 only has ATI GPUs. 🙁

 

[mfenn]

Update: Apparently the 980 only has ATI GPUs. 🙁

No, it doesn't. The 5th option down is a GT330.

 

[dg27]

You're right: I have to select the minitower to see that.

 

[dg27]

I spec'd out the OptiPlex 980, as well as the 8100 and two versions of the 9100 (from both the Home and Small Biz stores.

The processors that are in play are:

i7-960 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.20GHz) (The 980X is $1000 more: can't do that)
i7-930 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.80 GHz)

(These are on the 9100: the 960 is $470 more than the 930)

i7-870 processor(8MB Cache, 2.93GHz)
i7-880 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.06GHz)

(These are on the 8100: the 880 processor is $350 more than the 870). The 870 is also the top option on the OptiPlex.

I don't like that the OptiPlex only has a 305W PSU and I'd likely want to add a blu-ray burner.

Which of these makes the most sense? I do not play any games at all; use CS5 heavily, which is why I want Nvidia.

I really wonder whether the upgrades for the faster processors make sense from a cost standpoint. In all cases I'd add an Audigy sound card.

Specs/Price:

Option #1: 9100: $1690

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™i7-930 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.80 GHz)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English
MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
VIDEO CARD NVIDIA GeForce G310 512MB DDR3
HARD DRIVE 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE
Dual Drive: Blu-ray Disc Drive (BD/DVD/CD burner w/double layer BD write capability) +16X DVD+/-RW
SOUND CARD THX® TruStudio PC™
SERVICE PLAN 1 Year Basic Service Plan
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months
DATASAFE ONLINE BACKUP Dell Online Backup 2GB for 1 year
OS RECOVERY MEDIA Recovery DVD for Windows® 7 Professional OS, 64bit, English

--> with Intel® Core™i7-960 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.20GHz) $470 more = $2160 total

PSU = 525W

Option #2: 9100: $1815

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™i7-930 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.80 GHz)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English
MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5
HARD DRIVE 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE
Dual Drive:
Blu-ray Disc Drive (BD/DVD/CD burner w/double layer BD write capability)
+16X DVD+/-RW

SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months
SOUND CARD THX® TruStudio PC™ edit
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 2 Yr Ltd Warranty, On-site Service, and 2 Yr Tech Support

--> with Intel® Core™i7-960 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.20GHz) $470 more = $2285 total; would replace video card (~$150-175) to get Nvidia card

PSU = 525W

Option #3: 8100: $1554

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7-870 processor(8MB Cache, 2.93GHz)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, 64bit, English
MEMORY 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
VIDEO CARD nVidia GeForce GTS240 1024MB GDDR3
HARD DRIVE 640GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: Blu-ray Disc (BD) Burner (Writes to DVD/CD/BD) and DVD+/-RW
SECURITY SOFTWARE McAfee SecurityCenter, 15-Months
SOUND CARD THX® TruStudio PC™
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1 Yr Ltd Hardware Warranty, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis

--> with Intel® Core™i7-880 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 3.06GHz) $350 more = $1904 total

--> PSU = 375W; with this option I'd add a 1TB HD for ~$80 since Dell's option is $300 (!!!)

Option #4: OptiPlex 980 Mini Tower: $1767

BASE/ POWER SUPPLY OptiPlex 980 Minitower for Standard Power Supply
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Professional w/XP Mode,No Media, 64-bit, English
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 870 with VT (2.93GHz, 8M)
MEMORY 8GB DDR3 Non-ECC SDRAM, 1333MHz, (4 DIMM)
HARD DRIVE 160GB 10,000 RPM 3.5" SATA, 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with 16MB Cache
2ND HARD DRIVE 1TB 7,200 RPM 3.5" SATA, 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with NCQ and 16MB Cache
VIDEO CARD 1GB NVIDIA GeForce GT330 (1 DP & 1 DVI), Full Height edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 16XDVD+/-RWand16XDVD,SATARoxio Creator™ CyberlinkPowerDVD™NoMedia
WARRANTY & SERVICE 3 Year ProSupport and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service edit
SYSTEM RECOVERY OPTIONS Recovery Media for Cyberlink Power DVD™ and Roxio Creator Dell Edition for DVD+/-RW
SYSTEM RECOVERY OPTIONS Recovery Media for Genuine Windows® 7 Professional,64bit,Multiple Language
SYSTEM RECOVERY OPTIONS Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers

--> PSU = 305 W; I don't like that this only has one optical drive and no blu-ray. Also has a much smaller boot drive, which isn't really an issue. (I went with the smallest boot drive available in all cases.)

 

[mfenn]

You're worrying way too much about the PSU. And I mean waaaay too much. Dell knows what the system needs. Realistically speaking 305W gives about a 125W safety margin on the Optiplex.

I would absolutely not buy a consumer-level machines (Studio XPS) for business purposes because the warranty is different. The Optiplex has their standard NBD business warranty (which is quite good) whereas the Studio line only has a standard home user warranty even if you buy it through the small business store.

 

[dg27]

mfenn: Thanks for your reply. I'm aware of the warranty differences. As I said earlier, I've been using my main system for business for many years and aside from never having used any warranty, wouldn't any hardware modifications void any warranty anyway? (That's why I've never bought warranties that were more than a year: I always add and/or swap in hardware.)

In terms of the PSU, it's very likely that I would want to replace the GPU, I would definitely add a blu-ray burner, and would possibly add one more HD. Are you saying that a 305W PSU is sufficient for all of that?

Or isn't the reality that these business machines are designed to use lower power PSUs in applications where a company would have dozens of these machines and would want to run them in the most cost-effective manner?

I also question the logic of getting an i7-870 when the i7-980 is already out...I feel like I'd be settling for older technology for the sake of a warranty.

I had my Dimension XPS T500 for six years and have had my 8400 for five years. Considering how long I hang on to hardware, I think a smarter investment is to get the newest technology I can afford.

I should also add that in the course of my job I spend a month at a time in India, several times a year, where all I've got is my Dell XPS Studio 16 laptop (which I bought in August and which I absolutely love). I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time because I need two screens. But, if I had a meltdown on my main desktop, I'd use that while it was being resolved. I really don't need an NBD warranty.

dg

 

[mfenn]

mfenn: Thanks for your reply. I'm aware of the warranty differences. As I said earlier, I've been using my main system for business for many years and aside from never having used any warranty, wouldn't any hardware modifications void any warranty anyway? (That's why I've never bought warranties that were more than a year: I always add and/or swap in hardware.)

No, adding a hard drive or burner won't void the warranty.

In terms of the PSU, it's very likely that I would want to replace the GPU, I would definitely add a blu-ray burner, and would possibly add one more HD. Are you saying that a 305W PSU is sufficient for all of that?

An HDD and BD-RW use a negligible amount of power. The 305W is fine for a different GPU as long as you don't go crazy (though I don't know why you would need to swap).

Or isn't the reality that these business machines are designed to use lower power PSUs in applications where a company would have dozens of these machines and would want to run them in the most cost-effective manner?

Just because a PSU is rated at a certain maximum output does not mean that it always draws that much, so this is a false assertion. It's more a case of not putting more components in than necessary.

I also question the logic of getting an i7-870 when the i7-980 is already out...I feel like I'd be settling for older technology for the sake of a warranty.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. You haven't even mentioned the 980 before now (not to mention that is a $1000 CPU). If you were referring to something like a 950, then no, your assumption is false. A higher model number does not necessarily imply a newer processor. The 870 is actually newer than the 950.

I had my Dimension XPS T500 for six years and have had my 8400 for five years. Considering how long I hang on to hardware, I think a smarter investment is to get the newest technology I can afford.

See above. Also, mathematically speaking, the longer you hang onto hardware, the less getting the highest-end matters. Moore's law is an exponential function, so linear differences between high-end and mid-range are compressed into noise.

I should also add that in the course of my job I spend a month at a time in India, several times a year, where all I've got is my Dell XPS Studio 16 laptop (which I bought in August and which I absolutely love). I wouldn't want to have to use it all the time because I need two screens. But, if I had a meltdown on my main desktop, I'd use that while it was being resolved. I really don't need an NBD warranty.

dg

Hey man, if that's the way you want to run your business, that's completely up to you. 🙂 I absolutely will not recommend consumer-grade gear for business purposes. It will bite you in the ass sooner or later.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Hey man, if that's the way you want to run your business, that's completely up to you. 🙂 I absolutely will not recommend consumer-grade gear for business purposes. It will bite you in the ass sooner or later.

He's got his laptop and the p4 as serviceable backups. Under those conditions the NBD is overkill, because he's not looking at downtime.

 

[dg27]

I think I gave you the wrong idea about the use of this machine: While I have used my primary desktop for business for many years without any serious consequences, if it went down that would not impact my income @ all: it would just make my job a bit more of a PITA till it was resolved (and I'd use my laptop in the interim).

Sorry about the confusion about the 980: I was thinking of the OptiPlex model number, not the processor series. Thanks for letting know that the i7-870 is newer. I still have to give this some thought.

Thanks for all of your input.

dg

 

[mfenn]

You're welcome. I think you now have a much better idea about how to go about purchasing systems. 🙂

 

[dg27]

I've never built my own machine, but have done many modifications and upgrades and applied lots of band-aids on systems I had to keep running as long as possible because I couldn't afford to replace them. Most significant was when I replaced the processor on my T500, effectively extending its lifetime way beyond its technological obsolescence. Dropping 2 grand wasn't even a remote possibility. I can't drop the close to 3 grand I'd need for a Dell Precision and don't have the time or know how to build from scratch. All I've tried to do was get the best info to help decide how to best spend what I can. I thank you for what I've learned, which is more than I knew. I still don't all the answers, but I have a better idea than I did.