Custom build versus Out-of-the Box: Input please

[dg27]

I need to replace my outdated primary desktop, which is used extensively for photo and video editing (Adobe CS5), but no gaming. In addition to the machine I am replacing (a Dell 8400), I currently have a Dell Studio XPS 7100 and a Dell Studio XPS 16 laptop and really like both of those. I've been looking at the Dell Studio XPS 9100 desktop to replace the 8400.

A friend builds PCs and is urging me to go that route. I have spec'd out both the custom and the Dell 9100: they are within $5 of each other as spec'd. I am hoping that someone would have a look at the specs and provide input. I realize that some of the hardware (boot drive, video card) on the custom build is superior, but I have no idea on the processor or MB. In some ways I like the security of the out-of-the-box solution and unlike some have had very good luck with Dell. But for the same money would I be making a mistake? I generally hold onto PCs for about 5 years.

Custom Build
Component Model:

Processor AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103849 260.99

Motherboard ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131655 174.99

Memory CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M2A1600C9

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-260-_-Product
86.99
CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 86.99

Power supply CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-850HX 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139011 159.99

Boot drive Western Digital VelociRaptor WD6000HLHX 600GB 10000 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136555 249.99

Secondary drive Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136533 89.99

Optical drive 1
LG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache IDE 22X Super Multi DVD Writer LightScribe Support

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-169-_-Product 49.99

Optical drive 2 SAMSUNG Black Blu-ray Combo Drive - Bulk SATA Model SH-B083L/BSBP LightScribe Support

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-199-_-Product 79.99

Video card EVGA 012-P3-1470-AR GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130550 259.99

Sound card Creative 70SB088000004 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express 1x Interface PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102033 169.99

OS Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116758 139.99

Case Antec P183 Black Aluminum / Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129061 154.99
1,964.87

DELL Studio XPS 9100
Component Model
Processor Intel® Core™i7-930 processor(8MB L2 Cache, 2.80GHz)
Motherboard unknown
Memory 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz - 4 DIMMs
Power supply 525 W
Boot drive Seagate 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
Secondary drive Seagate 1TB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
Optical drive 1 Dual Drive: Blu-ray Disc Drive (BD/DVD/CD burner w/double layer BD write capability)
Optical drive 2 16X DVD+/-RW
Video card ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5
Sound card Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ Titanium
OS Windows® 7 Professional OS, 64bit, English
Case

1,969.99

 

[corkyg]

Both will do the job as cited. Personally, I prefer the Intel I7 in the Dell as well as the GPU. But, I like the WDC drives in the Custom. Prices difference is insignificant, but what about total product warranty? What is the custom builder's vs. Dell? How about tech support? Sometimes that is better with a local builder. As for the OS, both provide the same, but Dell is probably on a HDD partition. If the builder provides the product DVD, that is a plus.

 

[Raswan]

First, decide how much you trust your friend not to F things up. He is your only support, and he's not likely to answer the phone at 8am if you have a problem. That's your biggest concern. That said:

1) The psu in the custom build looks way better--not just because it's a Corsair (though that's big because the one Dell is putting in there I am betting is not nearly as good) but because it's fully 325W more power. From my understanding, 525w is about the absolute minimum for that system. No point in getting a sweet gpu and cpu and skimping on the power supply feeding them.

2) See what others say, but I'd lose that primary drive and grab a SSD. Pretty sure it'd make a big difference.

Otherwise, looks like you are trading off. Getting better power supply, motherboard (I bet), case, and HDDs, but less RAM (again, see what others say, but 4 gb seems a little light for heavy video editing. Maybe you want at least 6 or 8 even.) If you really don't care about the case, that's $150 Dell's not putting into their build, and could be saved completely or spent elsewhere (RAM? SSD?)

 

[dg27]

corkyg and raswan:

Thanks for your replies. Both Dell and the builder provide the OS on DVD; but with the custom it's a builder's version he told me that you are limited in terms of the number of times you can reinstall. With XP I always reinstalled about once a year no matter what. I also prefer the WD HDs.

It's hard to read, but I actually have the RAM shown twice (2 X 2 GB) X 2: I would never go less than 8 GB. I've heard mixed reviews on the SSDs up till now; even the builder talked me out of it.

The builder is very anti-Inte. I have an i7 in my XPS 16 laptop, and an AMD in the 7100.

I'm a little uncomfortable with how good a job the builder will do...

 

[FishAk]

I'm a little uncomfortable with how good a job the builder will do...

Have you priced out the individual parts, and considered building it on your own? If that's not an option, I'd go with Dell.

 

[dg27]

FishAk: Thanks for your reply. I did price out the parts for the custom @ newegg (they are shown). I could not really price out the Dell since I don't have the specifics on all of the hardware, especially the MB.

 

[davidjaii]

Is a monitor included with the Dell XPS? If so and if not needed, you can sell it to lower the total cost.

I'm not sure, but don't higher end Dells come with IPS panel monitors?

Edit: You can also find coupons for Dell desktops, seen many for 10%-20%.

 

[dg27]

As spec'd is without the monitor. I have two IPS panels that I use with the current system. Thanks for the tip about the coupons.

 

[piasabird]

The Dells often have a lower costing power supply. It is a shame that Dell does not let you upgrade the powersupply.

Dell has a lot of sales. I would not doubt that you can get a better price than this from DELL if you just time it right. For instance they may have a sale around the time of Black Friday (Thanksgiving).

Here is a similar system but they let you customize it and add drives/RAM. It will probably price about the same once you start adding stuff to it. They also sell similar AMD systems. This company can build and test it for you. You can add some drives or change the power supply/OS. Use as a Comparison. I purchased items from this store before.

http://www.directron.com/sysi7h1.html

System Components:
Processor: Intel Core i7 950 Socket LGA 1366 Quad-Core CPU with 3.06GHz and 4.8GT/s QPI.
Memory: Patriot PVV34G1333LLK Viper 4GB (2x2GB) dual channel DDR3 memory.
Motherboard: ASUS Rampage III GENE Intel X58 LGA1366 uATX Motherboard, Supports Intel Core i7 CPU, 6.4GT/s QPI, Triple-channel DDR3, SATA RAID, SLI and CrossFireX Ready
Video: Nvidia GeForce GTX 470 1280MB GDDR5 video card.
Audio: onboard 8-channel audio.
Storage: 640GB SATA hard drive with 16MB cache.
Optical: Black 22x dual layer SATA DVD-RW burner.
Case: Cooler Master RC-932-KKN1-GP HAF 932 full-tower case.
Power Supply: Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 1000W 80 Plus Gold Certified power supply.

 

[dg27]

piasabird: Wow--this link is really good for comparative purposes.

And I'll watch for Black Friday deals...

Thanks.

dg

 

[Zap]

The builder is very anti-Inte.

Anyone who is very anti-anything like that is doing himself and his clients a disservice. Anyone who says "I only use brand X because brand Y is crap" (or any other spurious reasons) is just spreading FUD based on his/her own misconceptions, and trying to look good to those with less experience. After all, an "expert" who has a super strong opinion about something must be right, right?

Anyways, enough of that... just my personal quibble.

used extensively for photo and video editing (Adobe CS5), but no gaming

Wow, Premier Pro CS5 has the GTX 470 as one of a handful of supported card. The custom build's choices aren't too bad, but I'd make a couple changes...

For 8GB RAM use 2x4GB and not 4x2GB.

For sound, if you want something better than onboard, then get a more professional sound card and not a "gaming" sound card.

The PSU is overkill. Yes to quality, but the wattage is about 200 more than needed even with a safety margin. Also, no need to specifically get modular cabling for a case with no side window.

$250 can easily get a good 120GB SSD with change back. In performance that would spank a VelociRaptor 600GB and since you will be having a data drive, 120GB should hold the bloated Adobe suite with plenty of room to spare.

Speaking of data drive, will you be doing uncompressed video? Adobe recommends two 7200RPM drives in RAID. Alternately, you can use the VelociRaptor 600GB for the data drive.

I assume you already have a backup plan in place, since you've been doing this for years.

Reinstalling Windows periodically should not be a problem with the "system builder" edition. They are keyed to the same motherboard, but even so they will activate fine after time (and 1 year is fine).

If you are doing this professionally, then I'd say don't worry about a few dollars here and there. Just make sure you have the right tools (hardware/software) to do your job. Of course this doesn't mean go wild and spend $10k

 

[mfenn]

Your custom builder has some very questionable parts choices. The 1090T, Corsair RAM, Corsair HX series PSU, Raptor, $50 DVD burner, and sound card are all quite bad bang for the buck. When you add to that the fact that talking somebody out of an SSD on a $2K build is just criminal, I'd recommend running, not walking, away from that guy. Oh yeah, and a GTX 470 for somebody who's not a gamer? You're getting fleeced buddy.

Here's a build that's faster for general usage (i5 and SSD) for 1/2 the price.
i5 760 $209
GA-P55-USB3 $105
GTS 450 $95 AR (for CUDA, CS5 can be patched to work with the 450)
G.Skill DDR3 1333 8GB $135
Mushkin Callisto 60GB $118 AR
Samsung F3 1TB $55 Apromo
BD-Combo Drive $80
Seasonic S12II 520W $60
Antec Three Hundred $60
Windows 7 64-bit Home Premium $100 (nothing you've listed needs Pro)
Total: $1017 AR Apromo

That being said, if you're comfortable with Dell, go for it!

 

[Raswan]

corkyg and raswan:

The builder is very anti-Inte. I have an i7 in my XPS 16 laptop, and an AMD in the 7100.

I'm a little uncomfortable with how good a job the builder will do...

I agree with the other post about the builder's problems with intel. If you really know what you are doing, the position is always more complicated than anti-a whole brand.

Second, if you are uncomfortable with the job the builder will do, just go with the Dell System. You can always swap out their psu by yourself (and probably should unless they are giving you something better than expected) for 100-125 bucks (whomever posted that 850w was overkill was also correct. Newegg and a host of other sites have power supply calculators you can use to determine wattage needs. Probably a 650w will do you just fine). That small investment might be worth your peace of mind when it comes to quality.

 

[Raswan]

Your custom builder has some very questionable parts choices. The 1090T, Corsair RAM, Corsair HX series PSU, Raptor, $50 DVD burner, and sound card are all quite bad bang for the buck. When you add to that the fact that talking somebody out of an SSD on a $2K build is just criminal, I'd running, not walking, away from that guy. Oh yeah, and a GTX 470 for somebody who's not a gamer? You're getting fleeced buddy.

Here's a build that's faster for general usage (i5 and SSD) for 1/2 the price.
i5 760 $209
GA-P55-USB3 $105
GTS 450 $95 AR (for CUDA, CS5 can be patched to work with the 450)
G.Skill DDR3 1333 8GB $135
Mushkin Callisto 60GB $118 AR
Samsung F3 1TB $55 Apromo
BD-Combo Drive $80
Seasonic S12II 520W $60
Antec Three Hundred $60
Windows 7 64-bit Home Premium $100 (nothing you've listed needs Pro)
Total: $1017 AR Apromo

That being said, if you're comfortable with Dell, go for it!

mfenn, you are the man.

 

[lid73]

Just recently built a system for the same purpose. Went with i7 930 processor, as it was $200 at Microcenter. The majority of video editing guys seem to prefer the x58 chipset of the i7 vs. the i5. Also, seeing some good comments about Premiere Pro performance when overclocked for rendering. One comment with the i7, they handle 3 channel memory. We went with 3 sticks of 4 GB

We used the following components:

Intel i7 930 - $200
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Motherboard 200
Cooler Master HAF 922 Chassis 90
SSD (64GB) Approx 180
Memory (12GB, DDR3, 1600mHz, Patriot) was about 325
750 Watt PSU about 100

Add your drives, graphics card, and OS. You can have a better system than the custom build for a little less.

 

[mfenn]

The majority of video editing guys seem to prefer the x58 chipset of the i7 vs. the i5.

The majority of video editing guys also don't know jack about hardware. By all means get the LGA 1156 i7 with HT if you feel the need, but triple-channel memory isn't helping you much.

 

[dg27]

Thanks, zap, mfenn, raswan, and lid73: you've all given me a heck of a lot of food for thought. In defense of the builder's selections, all he suggested were the processor and MB; he left me on my own for the rest.

I'd prefer an i7 as lid73 suggested and the two components about which I am most unsure are the GPU and the sound card. I definitely want a sound card that's for audio, not gaming (I do not want to go with on-board audio).

What would be suitable for those if f I went with these?

Intel i7 930 - $200
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Motherboard 200

The other possibility is to stick with the 9100 and upgrade components such as the GPU as needed. That's what I have always done in the past.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks, zap, mfenn, raswan, and lid73: you've all given me a heck of a lot of food for thought. In defense of the builder's selections, all he suggested were the processor and MB; he left me on my own for the rest.

I'd prefer an i7 as lid73 suggested and the two components about which I am most unsure are the GPU and the sound card. I definitely want a sound card that's for audio, not gaming (I do not want to go with on-board audio).

What would be suitable for those if f I went with these?

Intel i7 930 - $200
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Motherboard 200

The other possibility is to stick with the 9100 and upgrade components such as the GPU as needed. That's what I have always done in the past.

What makes you want a 930? It's slower and more expensive (when using total platform cost) than either the 760 or the 870.

You don't need much of a GPU, only something that supports CUDA like the GTS 450 that I suggested.

Why do you need a sound card? If you're serious about sound, you'll sending everything digitally to external components anyway.

 

[lid73]

MFenn. I agree they don't know much about hardware, but if you dig around on some Premiere Pro forums, there definitely seems to be a time benefit when it comes to rendering video with the 1366 boards. of course, this is based on data others have provided, so grain of salt.

DG27. It seems to me that Adobe GPU cards are WAY overpowered for most applications. The 470 is the lowest end card on their list. I have heard of good GPU performance with the 460 and the 450. There is a text file in the Adobe directory that you simply add the name of the card, and CS5 can use the CUDA on both these cards. Depends on how much you need the CUDA functions in your work. If you can afford it, I would say pop for the 470, as it may last you through CS6, but who knows what new technology will be out by then? We went with the 450 and "hacked" CS5 to enable CUDA support. As to sound card, will let an audiophile who knows what they are talking about respond to that. BY the way, the referenced prices were all at Microcenter store. the sale supposedly ended on the 31st, but a quick check of prices show that most are still in the same range. The case went way up, but you can find a comparable nice case for under $100.

 

[dg27]

What makes you want a 930? It's slower and more expensive (when using total platform cost) than either the 760 or the 870.

You don't need much of a GPU, only something that supports CUDA like the GTS 450 that I suggested.

Why do you need a sound card? If you're serious about sound, you'll sending everything digitally to external components anyway.

I said the 930 strictly because it was i7 as opposed to i5...I would like to future-proof a little bit. Is there an i7 I should consider?

I mentioned the sound card because I've always had one...is integrated audio that much better now than 5 years ago? Note: I want the best sound for music, not movies or games.

 

[Zap]

Oh yeah, and a GTX 470 for somebody who's not a gamer?

It is the lowest end (currently made) card on Adobe's list for cards supported by Premier Pro CS5.

Why do you need a sound card? If you're serious about sound, you'll sending everything digitally to external components anyway.

That is true. Using onboard sound to send digitally through SPDIF to a receiver will probably sound better than using a "gaming" sound card sending an analog signal.

It seems to me that Adobe GPU cards are WAY overpowered for most applications. The 470 is the lowest end card on their list. I have heard of good GPU performance with the 460 and the 450. There is a text file in the Adobe directory that you simply add the name of the card, and CS5 can use the CUDA on both these cards. Depends on how much you need the CUDA functions in your work. If you can afford it, I would say pop for the 470, as it may last you through CS6, but who knows what new technology will be out by then? We went with the 450 and "hacked" CS5 to enable CUDA support.

:thumbsup: Text file hack FTW! For best bang-buck probably the GTX 460, since you get a whopping 336 CUDA cores for $160 out the door (regular priced, not even looking for deals).

 

[mfenn]

It is the lowest end (currently made) card on Adobe's list for cards supported by Premier Pro CS5.

GTS 450 $95 AR (for CUDA, CS5 can be patched to work with the 450)
http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...=8gb_ddr3_1333_g.skill-_-20-231-311-_-Product

 

[VirtualLarry]

Anyone who is very anti-anything like that is doing himself and his clients a disservice. Anyone who says "I only use brand X because brand Y is crap" (or any other spurious reasons) is just spreading FUD based on his/her own misconceptions, and trying to look good to those with less experience. After all, an "expert" who has a super strong opinion about something must be right, right?

Anyways, enough of that... just my personal quibble.

I agree with that. I have my personal preferences, and I try to help my clients obtain the best price/performance that they can, but I let them choose which brands they want if they have a preference. I don't try to sway their decisions based on brand alone, but I might on technical grounds.

I know someone that builds PCs, and prefers NVidia graphics cards, due to problems he had with ATI's drivers back in the day.

 

[Zap]

I know someone that builds PCs, and prefers NVidia graphics cards, due to problems he had with ATI's drivers back in the day.

If they are unable to accept that things change, then it is themselves who have not changed. Since computer hardware changes so quickly over the years, I would avoid computer techs who are unable to face change.

 

[dg27]

The builder sent me revised specs. Note: The RAM is shown twice, for 8 GB total. It's my preference to have two optical drives and the case is my choice (I know there are cheaper ones out there). I used the same sound card that's in the Dell 9100, for comparison, but I am not sold on it.

Processor
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition Thuban 3.2GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT90ZFBGRBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103849 230.00

Motherboard
ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD 175Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131655 175.00

Memory
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231277 75.00

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 75.00

Power supply
CORSAIR Professional Series AX750 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139016 170.00

Boot drive
Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC064MAG-1G1 2.5" 64GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148357 135.00

Secondary drive
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136533 90.00

Optical drive 1
SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Drive Model SH-B123L LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151222 70.00

Optical drive 2
SAMSUNG Black 12X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Drive Model SH-B123L LightScribe Support - OEM 70.00

Video card
SAPPHIRE 100314SR Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ryType=0&Pages 240.00

Sound card Creative 70SB088000004 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Express 1x Interface PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102033 170.00

OS Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116758 140.00

Case Antec P183 Black Aluminum / Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129061 155.00
1,795.00

Another out of the box alternative I'm considering is this Dell 8100:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0346791

I'd add a 2nd HDD and a blu-ray drive if I went that route, bringing that to the $1200 neighborhood.

Is the custom build worth it?