Current state of the GOP

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: jman19
Interesting, the GOP has given in to "liberal" ideals yet CAD can't name a single one. Mind boggling.

Interesting - jman19 comes in yapping but obviously hasn't read the thread.


What is with you libs?

Um, you admitted in the post directly above this one that you were only using generalities until you gave an example in that post.

Yes, because it's obvious you libs will never actually read what I stated early on in the thread - you'll continue with ASSumptions.
I only provided that example because the 2 trolls would never let it go. However, that doesn't make their badgering correct based on my original statements.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Would someone explain to me how supply-side economics, deficit spending and a 'tax cut for every pot' is liberal ?

 

[Arkaign]

LoL, Cad, I'm hardly a classical liberal, I'm for a small-gov't that stays out of peoples lives as much as possible.

That said, you have YET to answer the question in *ANY* meaningful way. Not even a single example of the GOP becoming more socially liberal, 6 pages of merged thread.

General accusations that the GOP is becoming more socially liberal are meaningless without some kind of support for that premise.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Alright - what "liberal premises," socially, have taken hold?

Again, my statements were not specific - because the statement was general. You people don't seem to understand that.

But just to appease you who are too slow(or just really that ignorant) to understand my statements - One good example is stem cell research. Everyone assumes the GOP is against it when that is demonstrably false. The GOP did not challenge the premise the libs and media put out there and thus they will always be clubbed with the issue by people who are ignorant.

Semantics. They're opposed to embryonic stem cell research. You know - the GOOD kind.

What else you got there, sparky?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Alright - what "liberal premises," socially, have taken hold?

Again, my statements were not specific - because the statement was general. You people don't seem to understand that.

But just to appease you who are too slow(or just really that ignorant) to understand my statements - One good example is stem cell research. Everyone assumes the GOP is against it when that is demonstrably false. The GOP did not challenge the premise the libs and media put out there and thus they will always be clubbed with the issue by people who are ignorant.

Semantics. They're opposed to embryonic stem cell research. You know - the GOOD kind.

What else you got there, sparky?

Wrong. You are exactly who I'm talking about when I posted "clubbed with the issue by people who are ignorant"

 

[Jschmuck2]

2004:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../A61162-2004Aug12.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/p...em-cell-politics_x.htm

2006:

"Hollywood supports it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqGpuPzD8MA

2007"

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/d...2008dr.cfm?DR_ID=44701

2008:

http://www.boston.com/bostongl...e_stem_cell_lab_doors/

http://newsbatch.com/stemcells.htm

http://corner.nationalreview.c...hmMzI0MGRmODZlZmM5ZDA=

http://www.lifenews.com/bio2554.html

I understand that John McCain is pro stem cell research, a position which I applaud him for but the rest of his whackadoo party, for the most part, is not.

Back to the subject at hand.

If the GOP became more liberal vis-a-vis their "complacency" in regards to liberal social policies; how is the GOP different now that it was, say, during Newt's "contract with America?"

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

General accusations that the GOP is becoming more socially liberal are meaningless without some kind of support for that premise.

Exactly... Of course, we are the "ignorant" ones for not seeing it.

 

[ITJunkie]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Alright - what "liberal premises," socially, have taken hold?

Again, my statements were not specific - because the statement was general. You people don't seem to understand that.

But just to appease you who are too slow(or just really that ignorant) to understand my statements - One good example is stem cell research. Everyone assumes the GOP is against it when that is demonstrably false. The GOP did not challenge the premise the libs and media put out there and thus they will always be clubbed with the issue by people who are ignorant.

Okay, this is good! Thanks CAD for a real answer. You say "everyone assumes the GOP is against it when that is demonstrably false". Here is senate vote on stem cell research with 37 Nay votes...36 of which are republicans. 18 Republicans voted Yea. Looks like a 2:1 ratio to me.

So please tell me where this is "demonstrably false"?!?!?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
2004:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.../A61162-2004Aug12.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/p...em-cell-politics_x.htm

2006:

"Hollywood supports it"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqGpuPzD8MA

2007"

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/d...2008dr.cfm?DR_ID=44701

2008:

http://www.boston.com/bostongl...e_stem_cell_lab_doors/

http://newsbatch.com/stemcells.htm

http://corner.nationalreview.c...hmMzI0MGRmODZlZmM5ZDA=

http://www.lifenews.com/bio2554.html

I understand that John McCain is pro stem cell research, a position which I applaud him for but the rest of his whackadoo party, for the most part, is not.

Back to the subject at hand.

If the GOP became more liberal vis-a-vis their "complacency" in regards to liberal social policies; how is the GOP different now that it was, say, during Newt's "contract with America?"

whoa whoa whoa there junior. the stem cell issue isn't about supporting the research or not for the most part. The issue came about due to FEDERAL FUNDING of embryonic stem cell research. Not wanting the FEDERAL GOV'T sponsoring it is different than opposing the moral side. The media and libs were successful in cementing the premise that Republicans oppose stem cell research when that isn't the case - it's just the same old typical obfuscation and twisting the libs do on these issues. Conservatives like me oppose the FEDERAL funding of the research not on the moral front but rather due to it not being something the FEDERAL GOV'T should be involved with. THAT is why it's a premise the GOP lost and thus defaulted to the liberal view.

Under Newt's leadership, these sorts of things were challenged before they were able to be cemented. The leadership of the GOP failed to engage and thus by default ends up having to accept the liberal premises on issues.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party. So I agree there are splits in the party, but to call it moving right is just not true.

And Powell sold out a while ago so he is not a good representative.

seriously, wtf is powell smoking? GOP elected mccain the fucking maverick!! wtf?!?!?! THE PARTY IS NOT RIGHT ENOUGH!

Heh. You guys are proof of Powell's argument.

BTW, the ideology of being fiscally far left and socially hard right/authoritarian has a name: fascism.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
LoL, Cad, I'm hardly a classical liberal, I'm for a small-gov't that stays out of peoples lives as much as possible.

That said, you have YET to answer the question in *ANY* meaningful way. Not even a single example of the GOP becoming more socially liberal, 6 pages of merged thread.

General accusations that the GOP is becoming more socially liberal are meaningless without some kind of support for that premise.

I thought small govt was a classical liberal agenda. "That govt is best which governs least" and all that? That sentence defines classical liberalism IMO.

As for this crazy talk that the GOP is somehow or in some way becoming socially liberal, let's just say that CAD is imploding right before our eyes.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Arkaign
LoL, Cad, I'm hardly a classical liberal, I'm for a small-gov't that stays out of peoples lives as much as possible.

That said, you have YET to answer the question in *ANY* meaningful way. Not even a single example of the GOP becoming more socially liberal, 6 pages of merged thread.

General accusations that the GOP is becoming more socially liberal are meaningless without some kind of support for that premise.

I thought small govt was a classical liberal agenda. "That govt is best which governs least" and all that? That sentence defines classical liberalism IMO.

As for this crazy talk that the GOP is somehow or in some way becoming socially liberal, let's just say that CAD is imploding right before our eyes.

I can see that. It's just that liberalism is commonly associated with socialist agenda such as : provided healthcare, indigent care, etc. Which require an amount of government establishment and funds to accomplish.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, indeed if operated responsibly (a big challenge), I think that such policies can be greatly beneficial to society as a whole. Better to have a healthy citizen with a few bucks in his pocket that he will spend on goods and services than to have someone dying on the street IMHO.

Maybe the mass perception of liberalism as part and parcel of these types of programs is defective somehow, but sometimes perception has a way of influencing reality.

I do believe that a basic tenet of responsible government should be ways to reduce the size and complication of the government itself, and of accomplishing as much beneficial work as possible while consuming as little resources as possible.

My primary issue with government is that I think they should leave people alone with speech, their bodies, whatever chemicals they want to poison themselves with, etc. As long as your freedom doesn't step on anyone else's, I think you should be left alone.

With that said, you are one of the members here that I respect most. We may have some fundamental differences of opinion, but I see that we are both at once pragmatists and idealists, and unafraid to challenge our own viewpoints with a variety of seemingly opposing ones.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Arkaign
LoL, Cad, I'm hardly a classical liberal, I'm for a small-gov't that stays out of peoples lives as much as possible.

That said, you have YET to answer the question in *ANY* meaningful way. Not even a single example of the GOP becoming more socially liberal, 6 pages of merged thread.

General accusations that the GOP is becoming more socially liberal are meaningless without some kind of support for that premise.

I thought small govt was a classical liberal agenda. "That govt is best which governs least" and all that? That sentence defines classical liberalism IMO.

As for this crazy talk that the GOP is somehow or in some way becoming socially liberal, let's just say that CAD is imploding right before our eyes.

I can see that. It's just that liberalism is commonly associated with socialist agenda such as : provided healthcare, indigent care, etc. Which require an amount of government establishment and funds to accomplish.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, indeed if operated responsibly (a big challenge), I think that such policies can be greatly beneficial to society as a whole. Better to have a healthy citizen with a few bucks in his pocket that he will spend on goods and services than to have someone dying on the street IMHO.

Maybe the mass perception of liberalism as part and parcel of these types of programs is defective somehow, but sometimes perception has a way of influencing reality.

I do believe that a basic tenet of responsible government should be ways to reduce the size and complication of the government itself, and of accomplishing as much beneficial work as possible while consuming as little resources as possible.

My primary issue with government is that I think they should leave people alone with speech, their bodies, whatever chemicals they want to poison themselves with, etc. As long as your freedom doesn't step on anyone else's, I think you should be left alone.

With that said, you are one of the members here that I respect most. We may have some fundamental differences of opinion, but I see that we are both at once pragmatists and idealists, and unafraid to challenge our own viewpoints with a variety of seemingly opposing ones.

Agreed :thumbsup:

 

[Jschmuck2]

1.) Go back to school. Using "libs" in every sentence makes you sound crazier than you really are - which is tough.

2.) You're argument is that because the GOP didn't push back against the "liberal social agenda," they themselves have become more liberal?

Again, my statements were not specific - because the statement was general. You people don't seem to understand that.

3.) Alright - it was a general statement. Now what we'd like to hear are specifics to back it up.

Your turn.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
1.) Go back to school. Using "libs" in every sentence makes you sound crazier than you really are - which is tough.

2.) You're argument is that because the GOP didn't push back against the "liberal social agenda," they themselves have become more liberal?

Again, my statements were not specific - because the statement was general. You people don't seem to understand that.

3.) Alright - it was a general statement. Now what we'd like to hear are specifics to back it up.

Your turn.

1. lol, sure, whatever you say junior.
2. you still haven't read what I stated if that's what you think I stated. How many ways can I try to say this before we get to a dumbed down enough version for you to understand? If a premise that is flawed or is biased in a liberal way isn't challenged by a Conservative - the issue's premise is set in a liberal fashion thus a Conservative or GOP member has to address it from there which is liberal. Yes, accepting liberal premises means you have moved away from Conservatism - thus becomeing more liberal. Why is it so hard for you oh so enlightened liberals to understand?
3. I already have. Just because you are blind doesn't mean I have to play your little games. I have directly responded to your little BS even though your questions had little to do with my original statements. If you want specifics - go find someone who made that argument....
or you could start another call-out/troll thread...

 

[thepd7]

Wow CAD, I'm a intelligent conservative (not an oxymoron these days no matter what you all say) and you are just coming off looking horrible.

Being a conservative I generally vote Republican, however I have voted for Democrats and I will continue to vote for whoever I feel like is most intelligent and honest (I hate pandering).

Bottom line, if you make a general statement you need evidence to back it up.

I read your PFI thread and the first few posts in this thread, and yes he created a thread to call you out (it just happened to get merged so there's no longer a "call out" thread, he is simply asking you to back up your point of view in this one).

I came in here ready to be upset at JSchmuch but YOU are the one acting like a fool.

Providing general statements then when anyone asks for evidence putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "READ MY POSTS" is not what an intelligent person does.

Please, do some research and post specific articles or more specific areas where you feel like the Republican party did not challenge infringements into it's conservative stronghold or back off.

I actually think that the Republican party has stayed the same and that is what has hurt them. I firmly believe that blind party voters are killing American politics because politicians can't do what is right, only what their party says is right.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: thepd7
Wow CAD, I'm a intelligent conservative (not an oxymoron these days no matter what you all say) and you are just coming off looking horrible.

Being a conservative I generally vote Republican, however I have voted for Democrats and I will continue to vote for whoever I feel like is most intelligent and honest (I hate pandering).

Bottom line, if you make a general statement you need evidence to back it up.

I read your PFI thread and the first few posts in this thread, and yes he created a thread to call you out (it just happened to get merged so there's no longer a "call out" thread, he is simply asking you to back up your point of view in this one).

I came in here ready to be upset at JSchmuch but YOU are the one acting like a fool.

Providing general statements then when anyone asks for evidence putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "READ MY POSTS" is not what an intelligent person does.

Please, do some research and post specific articles or more specific areas where you feel like the Republican party did not challenge infringements into it's conservative stronghold or back off.

I actually think that the Republican party has stayed the same and that is what has hurt them. I firmly believe that blind party voters are killing American politics because politicians can't do what is right, only what their party says is right.

:roll: I did back it up. Only a fool would suggest that I have to provide specifics when my comment was my generic opinion - just like everyone elses in here. But since this is P&N - fools abound...

You see, people like you are the problem with the GOP. You think they have stayed the same? Puhleeze. They have not held true to the Conservative ideals they once held.... When are people like you who claim to be Conservative and claim to generally vote Republican going to wake up and realize that voting for the left is not going to make the Republicans do anything but lurch leftward? Conservatism wins in America and the GOP is loosing because it's forgotten what Conservatism is - both economically and socially.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: thepd7
Wow CAD, I'm a intelligent conservative (not an oxymoron these days no matter what you all say) and you are just coming off looking horrible.

Being a conservative I generally vote Republican, however I have voted for Democrats and I will continue to vote for whoever I feel like is most intelligent and honest (I hate pandering).

Bottom line, if you make a general statement you need evidence to back it up.

I read your PFI thread and the first few posts in this thread, and yes he created a thread to call you out (it just happened to get merged so there's no longer a "call out" thread, he is simply asking you to back up your point of view in this one).

I came in here ready to be upset at JSchmuch but YOU are the one acting like a fool.

Providing general statements then when anyone asks for evidence putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "READ MY POSTS" is not what an intelligent person does.

Please, do some research and post specific articles or more specific areas where you feel like the Republican party did not challenge infringements into it's conservative stronghold or back off.

I actually think that the Republican party has stayed the same and that is what has hurt them. I firmly believe that blind party voters are killing American politics because politicians can't do what is right, only what their party says is right.

:roll: I did back it up. Only a fool would suggest that I have to provide specifics when my comment was my generic opinion - just like everyone elses in here. But since this is P&N - fools abound...

You see, people like you are the problem with the GOP. You think they have stayed the same? Puhleeze. They have not held true to the Conservative ideals they once held.... When are people like you who claim to be Conservative and claim to generally vote Republican going to wake up and realize that voting for the left is not going to make the Republicans do anything but lurch leftward? Conservatism wins in America and the GOP is loosing because it's forgotten what Conservatism is - both economically and socially.

At some point, everything changes. America is changing now. The very nature of a conservative is to resist change, and that is what we are seeing now. The inevitable change is coming and the conservative holdouts are losing ground. Its not a major change, just a general shift to the left in the USA. The republican party will be back, and will be strong again... They will re-adjust themselves and return, slightly less conservative than they are today.

Conservatism ala 2000-2008 had its chance, and failed miserably. It doesnt "win" it loses. If you think being even more conservative would save the party you are sadly mistaken. The only saviour os to align with teh majority of the population which is not as conservative as the GOP

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: thepd7
Wow CAD, I'm a intelligent conservative (not an oxymoron these days no matter what you all say) and you are just coming off looking horrible.

Being a conservative I generally vote Republican, however I have voted for Democrats and I will continue to vote for whoever I feel like is most intelligent and honest (I hate pandering).

Bottom line, if you make a general statement you need evidence to back it up.

I read your PFI thread and the first few posts in this thread, and yes he created a thread to call you out (it just happened to get merged so there's no longer a "call out" thread, he is simply asking you to back up your point of view in this one).

I came in here ready to be upset at JSchmuch but YOU are the one acting like a fool.

Providing general statements then when anyone asks for evidence putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "READ MY POSTS" is not what an intelligent person does.

Please, do some research and post specific articles or more specific areas where you feel like the Republican party did not challenge infringements into it's conservative stronghold or back off.

I actually think that the Republican party has stayed the same and that is what has hurt them. I firmly believe that blind party voters are killing American politics because politicians can't do what is right, only what their party says is right.

:roll: I did back it up. Only a fool would suggest that I have to provide specifics when my comment was my generic opinion - just like everyone elses in here. But since this is P&N - fools abound...

You see, people like you are the problem with the GOP. You think they have stayed the same? Puhleeze. They have not held true to the Conservative ideals they once held.... When are people like you who claim to be Conservative and claim to generally vote Republican going to wake up and realize that voting for the left is not going to make the Republicans do anything but lurch leftward? Conservatism wins in America and the GOP is loosing because it's forgotten what Conservatism is - both economically and socially.

Generic opinions with no basic evidence used to support those opinions devalue the opinion. Having random opinions not based in reality is preposterous.

I could give a "generic opinion" that the world is made of cheese. According to your philosphies, if people asked me to show examples of why I thought this and I kept answering that it was a "generic opinion" and refused to give examples of why I thought this, people would think I was crazy.

You state an opinion of the current state of the gop... people ask you for examples of what lead you to believe in that opinion. You can't give any examples... you say it is a "generic opinion" and therefore you don't need to explain what actually LEAD you to concoct that opinion.

I will do the same then. The GOP has completely dismissed and renounced all socially liberal views, opting instead for pushing an agenda of promoting a theocracy. This is a generic opinion and I will provide no examples of what lead me to this opinion. Therefore it cannot and will not be debunked.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Wow CAD - now it's the Democrat's fault and it's the fault of people in your own party. Good thing you've got it all figured out.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party.

Extremely pissed off to the point where I'll vote third party indefinitely.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Wow CAD - now it's the Democrat's fault and it's the fault of people in your own party. Good thing you've got it all figured out.

It's anyone who doesn't agree with his viewpoint's fault. Green Party, Ron Paul, Nader, Perez Hilton, David Letterman, Scott McClellan, Starbucks, 50 Cent, High School Musical 3, and Rocky Road ice cream.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party.

Extremely pissed off to the point where I'll vote third party indefinitely.

Yup... It REALLY is a party issue too. There is nothing wrong with being conservative. It is a noble concept with a lot of good points (although I strongly disagree with the social ones). Too bad the party that is supposed to embrace these values totally imploded on its own greed and ineptitude. Too bad for true fiscal conservatives that is... They are the true victims in this.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Wow CAD - now it's the Democrat's fault and it's the fault of people in your own party. Good thing you've got it all figured out.

It's anyone who doesn't agree with his viewpoint's fault. Green Party, Ron Paul, Nader, Perez Hilton, David Letterman, Scott McClellan, Starbucks, 50 Cent, High School Musical 3, and Rocky Road ice cream.

But it has nuts AND marshmallows!!!

They're probably elitist marshmallows and not "real" nuts, though.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Wow CAD - now it's the Democrat's fault and it's the fault of people in your own party. Good thing you've got it all figured out.

Where did I say it was the democrat's fault? Oh wait... I didn't. I have definitely laid the GOP problems at the feet of Republicans - not that you've read anything I've posted anyway...


Do you libs ever get tired of stuffing straw...?