Current state of the GOP

[Painman]

The current state of the GOP ought to be an object lesson in "Don't drink your own kool-aid". Geez, even large scale crack and meth dealership networks know this truth.

The modern day GOP?

-The MIC (discredited, due to the public's souring on Iraq)

-The Greedheads (discredited, due to the foreclosure and resulting Wall Street crises)

-The Fundies (Voting Booth Fodder for the aforementioned groups)

It's amazing. Read the rantings of folks over at Redstate or Free Republic, and these people actually believe they're failing because they're not hardcore right wing enough.

Win Middle America, and you win the election. McCain thinks he has an ace in the hole with "Joe the Plumber" but the average wage slave knows "Joe the Plumber" as their self appointed God, ie. boss. And they don't like him very much, because in all likelihood, he's a complete and total prick who thinks he's God's Gift to his underlings.

Seriously, I've had my fill of American Small Businessmen/women over my working lifetime. I'd much rather be an obscure cog in the grand and incomprehensible machinations of a huge corporation. At least, in that case, my boss' position isn't very far removed from my own. He/She thanks the beneficence of the Machine Mother for their position as much as I do.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I saw a very interesting article on CNN.com. Worth a quick read.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...rger.column/index.html

what was most notable was Powell's dire assessment of the state of the GOP: "The party has moved even further to the right," he said, adding that, "over the last seven weeks, the approach of the Republican Party and Mr. McCain has become narrower and narrower." That's the key indictment, and the key problem, for the GOP. While the political world shifts towards independent voters -- who, by nature, are more about pragmatism than dogma -- the Republican Party remains unable to redefine itself back into a working majority. Watch the effect of Powell's endorsement Video Is it still the party of Ronald Reagan? Or has it moved beyond Reagan's innate optimism and into a party that wants to build fences and demand ideological purity? Or can it come up with new ideas that could eventually provide some rejuvenation? Truth is, after more than a decade of political dominance, the GOP is out of steam and on the verge of a civil war -- with factions splitting among the foreign-policy hardliners, the tax-cutters and the social conservatives.

Wow, that's some great commentary. :roll:

Anywho, I find it hilarious when libs try to diagnose the GOP's problems.

And powell is wrong -the GOP has gone too liberal and strayed from it's Conservative roots. powell may not be a liberal but the reality of the situation is - he's really only a Military/foreign policy guy - he has nothing else with regards to economic, social policy.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


Wow, that's some great commentary. :roll:

Anywho, I find it hilarious when libs try to diagnose the GOP's problems.

And powell is wrong -the GOP has gone too liberal and strayed from it's Conservative roots. powell may not be a liberal but the reality of the situation is - he's really only a Military/foreign policy guy - he has nothing else with regards to economic, social policy.

How is the GOP too liberal? fiscally maybe. I think Powell's comments that they are too far right are referring to the social/religious takeover of the party... Which has been a nightmare. Separation of church and state is a core part of our constitution and HAS to be followed to the letter.

Anyhow, if you disagree with lib's perspective on the GOP's problems, what is your die hard GOP analysis of your problems ? From a lib, I would say this... With Bush and 6 years of rep controlled congress the GOP had free reign to implement the policies they have been pushing. The results have been disastrous. Basically we tried it your way and you failed ... miserably and extremely visibly.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party. So I agree there are splits in the party, but to call it moving right is just not true.

And Powell sold out a while ago so he is not a good representative.

They have moved fiscally left and socially even more right. Horrible combination that is the reason they are being tossed out.

Calling the Republican spending 'left' is a lie. Big spending on war and defense and corporate subsidies and other corruption is not 'left'.

The sad thing is how the culties like you are blind to the behavior of the right, by saying that it's actually 'left' behavior leaving you no choice but to back the lesser of two evils.

Until you get a clue, you are part of the problem.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn

It's been like dating a rich, beautiful, well-connected and fascinating woman who proves to be totally nuts and utterly dishonest...

I think it's been more like date rape.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party. So I agree there are splits in the party, but to call it moving right is just not true.

And Powell sold out a while ago so he is not a good representative.

They have moved fiscally left and socially even more right. Horrible combination that is the reason they are being tossed out.

Yep

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: brencat
The low taxes portion of the GOP platform is sound. Where they screwed up is in the spending like drunken sailors and thereby growing the gov't they so despise. Finally, they let social issues play a larger role than they ever ought to, as far as I'm concerned.

I hope some true ECONOMIC conservatives emerge over the next two years such that it rallies the majority of the base and we get back on message. Otherwise, I'm likely to look 3rd party going forward. The day I vote for a Democrat is the day y'all ought to grab a rifle and some canned goods and head for the hills. But at the same time, McCain is at best a breakeven trade for me. The Repubs need to get their sh*t together and I hope the likely mauling they're about to get at the polls drives this message home.

Yep again!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right.

Not Socially, they have taken a hard right towards the Lunatic Fringe.

 

[StageLeft]

These ranged from Jim Jones who led hundreds to their deaths in Jonestown to Hitler and Mao who led millions to their deaths. What specifics do we know about Barack Obama's track record that might give us some clue as to what kinds of "changes" to expect if he is elected?

hee hee, this is just great reading. Now that those insane misfits will be out of the oval office, we can laugh at this in a distracted sort of way that we were not able to during the last 8 years because they were at the helm.

Republican party is right in this country but still considered a liberal party by most litmus tests.

Litmus tests where? Not by Western standards.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Litmus tests where? Not by Western standards.

If you have ever taken a polisci class they will plot our dominant parties. Both fall into the left side of the spectrum and are defined liberal. The political spectrum within the United States is quite narrow compared to around the world. If you look around the you will notice there are true fascist and socialist or communist parties. Neither democrat nor republican parties have a platform that looks anything like them.

For republicans to be a true far right winged ideology they would have to be fascist. They just helped socialize our banking industry for crying out loud. And for all of the complaints within this country about the last 8 years. We still have a free press, free speech, dont live in a military dictatorship and have free elections. One complaint that is legit is an errosion of our 4th amendment rights. But that will be dealt with within the court system soon enough.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


Wow, that's some great commentary. :roll:

Anywho, I find it hilarious when libs try to diagnose the GOP's problems.

And powell is wrong -the GOP has gone too liberal and strayed from it's Conservative roots. powell may not be a liberal but the reality of the situation is - he's really only a Military/foreign policy guy - he has nothing else with regards to economic, social policy.

How is the GOP too liberal? fiscally maybe. I think Powell's comments that they are too far right are referring to the social/religious takeover of the party... Which has been a nightmare. Separation of church and state is a core part of our constitution and HAS to be followed to the letter.

Anyhow, if you disagree with lib's perspective on the GOP's problems, what is your die hard GOP analysis of your problems ? From a lib, I would say this... With Bush and 6 years of rep controlled congress the GOP had free reign to implement the policies they have been pushing. The results have been disastrous. Basically we tried it your way and you failed ... miserably and extremely visibly.

Wrong. Even socially they have given in to the liberals as their spine was already compromised fiscally. Also there is no such thing as a church free state - which is what you seem to suggest needs to happen. And no, it's not a "core part" of the Constitution. What the Constitution states is that the gov't can't establish a religion....you know...like England had - which people were looking to escape. But that's a whole different discussion and one that's been had here many many times.

I've already stated what's wrong with the GOP many times in the last few years. And no, we did not try it my way for 6+ years. We did it in the wishywashy no backbone way - which allowed too much liberalism into play.
The point is that the GOP MUST ignore these "reviews" by the liberals if they want to stay the GOP. They have lost Conservatives like myself and will continue to lose more of them if they listen to how liberals think they are wrong.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

I've already stated what's wrong with the GOP many times in the last few years. And no, we did not try it my way for 6+ years. We did it in the wishywashy no backbone way - which allowed too much liberalism into play.
The point is that the GOP MUST ignore these "reviews" by the liberals if they want to stay the GOP. They have lost Conservatives like myself and will continue to lose more of them if they listen to how liberals think they are wrong.

so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

 

[BMW540I6speed]

The GOP could save itself, but as long as its soul is that of inarticulate lower-middle-class rage wanting only to follow a hard man & social issues, it is never even going to try. The party at this point is about as public-spirited as a pack of rats who have eaten all the Chee-tos in the pantry.

Faith based politics. - "The Republicans are good for the economy" is an article of faith for some people, and all evidence is reinterpreted or ignored to support that article of faith. The same goes for "The Republicans are strong on defense", for another example.

The political right in general seems to work like that; declare something they want to believe to be the Truth, and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. As opposed to us rational Americans in the "reality based community".

The Republican party is so intellectually and morally bankrupt that it will be hard to be able to make a rapid recovery. I expect that they have instilled such blind devotion to the brand that they'll be well into the wilderness before any sanity can be restored in their ranks.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
The GOP could save itself, but as long as its soul is that of inarticulate lower-middle-class rage wanting only to follow a hard man & social issues, it is never even going to try. The party at this point is about as public-spirited as a pack of rats who have eaten all the Chee-tos in the pantry.

Faith based politics. - "The Republicans are good for the economy" is an article of faith for some people, and all evidence is reinterpreted or ignored to support that article of faith. The same goes for "The Republicans are strong on defense", for another example.

The political right in general seems to work like that; declare something they want to believe to be the Truth, and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary. As opposed to us rational Americans in the "reality based community".

I just cant determine if Republicans are rich evil business or inarticulate lower middle class. Guess it depends on which side of the bed the liberal opinion wakes up on.

The Republican party is so intellectually and morally bankrupt that it will be hard to be able to make a rapid recovery. I expect that they have instilled such blind devotion to the brand that they'll be well into the wilderness before any sanity can be restored in their ranks.

Heh that is what all the pundits said of the Democrats 4 years ago. Things move very fast in todays world. 2 years of a straight liberal agenda may be enough to send the dems packing in 2010. If the republicans get their shit together after this debacle it may not even need to be a straight liberal policy.

I think the best thing for the republicans is to get waxed in 2 weeks. Because it allows them to sort out their internal issues without worrying about holding onto anything. And after Jan when Obama takes control of the executive and the democrat have firm majorities. There is no more excuses that can be made for when they fuck up.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right.

Not Socially, they have taken a hard right towards the Lunatic Fringe.

First, Conservatives have to acknowledge they lost. No excuses. No claims that defeat was a fluke. No looking for someone to blame. They need to listen to the voters who saw the conservative agenda and chose something different.

They have to take a long look at that agenda. They have to break it down into individual pieces and decide what works with the American people and what doesn't. What parts are core values and what's just chrome. What parts can be salvaged and what needs to be abandoned. And what parts aren't working together.

The Republicans need to shed the Religious Right by telling them that they can get on board or get left behind. We all know that they'll vote Republican anyway so there's no need to pander to them. Hopefully jetison them completely, let them start there own party

They need to get a grip on the social conservatism. Those days are gone. Gay marriage is coming, opposing it is futile. It's not like they have to embrace it, but they have to accept it. Same with abortion.

If they want to maintain their claim that they are fiscally conservative they actually have to demonstrate that they are rather than just saying it in defiance of the facts. They have to provide principled opposition without the petulance they've demonstrated over the past few years. None of this filibuster nonsense, none of this "nuclear option" crap, and they have to compromise instead of taking their ball and going home when they don't get their way.

They have to look at themselves. Look at the people who are Conservatives or who are proclaiming themselves to be Conservatives. Look at people who aren't Conservatives and ask why they aren't. Decide who they want representing their movement.

They should look around at America and see what's going on. Look at the changes that have occurred and try to figure out what direction we're heading towards. Look around to see what new ideas should be made into part of the conservative agenda.

Finally, they have to take this reborn movement back to the people. They have to present their new agenda and explain why its ideas are good. They have to present their new representatives and explain why people should listen to and support them.

I think we're heading for a big argument over the divide between two major factions of the Republican Party. The "less government" Republicans who don't feel the government, any government - federal, state, or local, should be telling citizens how to live their lives if they're not hurting other people. And the "family values" Republicans who think it's the government's job to enforce a set of moral standards on how people live their lives. The two concepts are in obvious conflict and it's becoming difficult to paper over the differences. At some point, the Republican Party is going to have to pick one side or the other.

Some people have argued that the Republicans are only losing this year because of the economy and/or the war. Well, duh. But acting like these are something that came out of the blue is a kind of avoidance. The Wall Street collapse and the Iraq debacle didn't just happen. They were both the result of policies which Conservatives gave support to - not single-handedly, but it's dishonest for Conservatives to fail to acknowledge the large share of responsibility they own for these problems.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Heh that is what all the pundits said of the Democrats 4 years ago. Things move very fast in todays world. 2 years of a straight liberal agenda may be enough to send the dems packing in 2010. If the republicans get their shit together after this debacle it may not even need to be a straight liberal policy.

I believe that the country is far better off when there are two strong national parties that can keep an eye on each other. Some politicians can be trusted not to do anything while nobody's looking, but I don't think we can rely on the great mass of them to do the same constantly, consistently.

Compromise is not a dirty word. Compromise doesn't mean the other guy wins, it means that instead of a deadlock, or a bill passed narrowly that doesn't reflect the views of the body as a whole (and as an arguable extension, the electorate), the end result is a piece of legislation that reflects some ideas from one side and some from the other, that reasonable people can think is good enough.

I'd rather have 250 liberal, moderate, and conservative Democrats and 180 liberal, moderate, and conservative Republicans in the House than 300 liberal, moderate, and conservative Democrats and 130 conservative Republicans. And yes, I do think that there is such a thing as a liberal Republican who serves the party well: look at Snowe and Collins.

I am a fiscal conservative, but Republicans lost me with the social sillyness. There are two very serious and very obvious areas that the Republican Party must address or risk sliding into obscurity - age and minorities. The Republican party is old and white. The under 30 demographic identifies as Democratic by 20 points more than Republicans. Despite the common belief that people get more conservative as they get older, it's not true. Most people stay with the same party they were with at age 20.

Republicans cannot win in the future if they alienate minorities as they are currently doing. The country is becoming less white every year. The overwhelmingly Catholic and largely conservative Hispanic population should be ripe for Republican picking but for a variety of reasons they are not getting any traction there. You can argue the issues all you want, but sometimes it is demography that determines destiny.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: seemingly random

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL! The republican party has moved farther left, not right. Hence original republicans being pissed off at their own party. So I agree there are splits in the party, but to call it moving right is just not true.

And Powell sold out a while ago so he is not a good representative.

seriously, wtf is powell smoking? GOP elected mccain the fucking maverick!! wtf?!?!?! THE PARTY IS NOT RIGHT ENOUGH!

sieg heil

This.

The Cons are an ultra-nationalists, ultra-corporatists, Goebbels-like propaganda-spewing machine bordering on neo-fascism. Using the religious right as a core constituency by co-opting 'wedge' social issues with the politics of Lee Atwater Hate has crushed the meaning of 'conservatism'.

When you factor in the folly of supply-side economics, the abuse of the military and Raygunesque "gub'mint is the problem" it is a recipe for long-term failure.

There is a big difference between a smaller, effective Federal government and the broken government brought to us over the last 8 years. Historians will not look kindly upon this 30 years of 'New Federalism' and the politics of the Republican party.

Boogie Man: The Lee Atwater Story

Hold on to your Hate & Divisiveness , Republicans, 'cause it aint gonna be pretty and you can only hope to learn from Atwater.

From the Atwater wiki:

My illness helped me to see that what was missing in society is what was missing in me: a little heart, a lot of brotherhood. The '80s were about acquiring ? acquiring wealth, power, prestige. I know. I acquired more wealth, power, and prestige than most. But you can acquire all you want and still feel empty. What power wouldn't I trade for a little more time with my family? What price wouldn't I pay for an evening with friends? It took a deadly illness to put me eye to eye with that truth, but it is a truth that the country, caught up in its ruthless ambitions and moral decay, can learn on my dime. I don't know who will lead us through the '90s, but they must be made to speak to this spiritual vacuum at the heart of American society, this tumor of the soul.

The ruthless ambitions & moral decay is you, Republican party. 'Win at all costs' divisive political depravity is the cross you bear ...

 

[Genx87]

I cant disagree with you that republicans have some serious demographic issues. The problem is how do they beat democrats on those issues? The biggest issue is the role of govt. It appears the age of big govt is upon us. Being a conservative party puts you on the trailing edge of big govt.

I dont know how to crack the demographics issue without erasing the parties platform. Republicans should start by dropping the southern strategy that has done well for them the last 30 years. The ironic thing is blacks and hispanics are actually quite socially conservative. They share many values with the republican party. But the image of them being the white rich party destroys their ability to relate. I also believe the welfare state and their stance doesnt help the situation. Many people coming from central and south american come from left leaning states. They expect govt to do things for them. But I think a legitimate case can be made that independence, not reliance is a worthy stance with the influx of hispanics.

Overall though I feel the republican party has moved left economically speaking. It is a 2 steps to the left, one to the right situation.

 

[Lemon law]

No, its not a two steps to the left and one to the right, its a GOP going nutso on spend and borrow, and as a result the economy melts down. In terms of extreme social policies, their fear tactic against gays and Muslims has just worn out its welcome and is no longer working. Its obvious to everyone that massive changes are needed and McCain is not that change agent.

If the GOP does not realize that they let GWB&co hijack their party, I see little hope for the GOP in terms of regaining their sanity any time soon. The GOP broke it and now someone else must fix it. If the GOP becomes the party of far right grid lock post 2009, they will not be able to be able to capitalize on the certain difficulties that will follow in rebuilding the American economy. GWB put us in a deep hole, and its going to take a decade or more to dig ourselves out.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

I've already stated what's wrong with the GOP many times in the last few years. And no, we did not try it my way for 6+ years. We did it in the wishywashy no backbone way - which allowed too much liberalism into play.
The point is that the GOP MUST ignore these "reviews" by the liberals if they want to stay the GOP. They have lost Conservatives like myself and will continue to lose more of them if they listen to how liberals think they are wrong.

so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

Hey look, it's the same jughead liberal trying to suggest he knows what the GOP should do...

Clue for you - Yes, Bush and too many in the GOP have been too liberal on ALL fronts. FAR too many RINOs and spineless GOP members held sway in the GOP. Bush, the RINOs and the liberals haven't met any spending they haven't supported in the past 8 years. They've also given into the liberal views socially as they haven't pushed these ideals because they wanted to be too "nice" and thus didn't stand up for their core beliefs. They allowed the liberals to set the premise of too many discussions and didn't challenge those premises when they were dead wrong.

What the GOP needs is a strong Conservative leader to lead them out of the woods - like Newt did back in '94. The problem came in when the leadership bailed on Conservative and strong leadership - the caucus went wandering and got lost in the knee high brush.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

I've already stated what's wrong with the GOP many times in the last few years. And no, we did not try it my way for 6+ years. We did it in the wishywashy no backbone way - which allowed too much liberalism into play.
The point is that the GOP MUST ignore these "reviews" by the liberals if they want to stay the GOP. They have lost Conservatives like myself and will continue to lose more of them if they listen to how liberals think they are wrong.

so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

Hey look, it's the same jughead liberal trying to suggest he knows what the GOP should do...

Clue for you - Yes, Bush and too many in the GOP have been too liberal on ALL fronts. FAR too many RINOs and spineless GOP members held sway in the GOP. Bush, the RINOs and the liberals haven't met any spending they haven't supported in the past 8 years. They've also given into the liberal views socially as they haven't pushed these ideals because they wanted to be too "nice" and thus didn't stand up for their core beliefs. They allowed the liberals to set the premise of too many discussions and didn't challenge those premises when they were dead wrong.

What the GOP needs is a strong Conservative leader to lead them out of the woods - like Newt did back in '94. The problem came in when the leadership bailed on Conservative and strong leadership - the caucus went wandering and got lost in the knee high brush.

Its funny how you can totally avoid the question in my post and somehow manage to to blame liberals for the GOP's problems. LOL

I re-iterate... so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

 

[seemingly random]

The 'liberal' republicans got us into a war in iraq. An unsupportable war. How quickly we forget.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

I've already stated what's wrong with the GOP many times in the last few years. And no, we did not try it my way for 6+ years. We did it in the wishywashy no backbone way - which allowed too much liberalism into play.
The point is that the GOP MUST ignore these "reviews" by the liberals if they want to stay the GOP. They have lost Conservatives like myself and will continue to lose more of them if they listen to how liberals think they are wrong.

so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

Hey look, it's the same jughead liberal trying to suggest he knows what the GOP should do...

Clue for you - Yes, Bush and too many in the GOP have been too liberal on ALL fronts. FAR too many RINOs and spineless GOP members held sway in the GOP. Bush, the RINOs and the liberals haven't met any spending they haven't supported in the past 8 years. They've also given into the liberal views socially as they haven't pushed these ideals because they wanted to be too "nice" and thus didn't stand up for their core beliefs. They allowed the liberals to set the premise of too many discussions and didn't challenge those premises when they were dead wrong.

What the GOP needs is a strong Conservative leader to lead them out of the woods - like Newt did back in '94. The problem came in when the leadership bailed on Conservative and strong leadership - the caucus went wandering and got lost in the knee high brush.

Its funny how you can totally avoid the question in my post and somehow manage to to blame liberals for the GOP's problems. LOL

I re-iterate... so the past 8 years of rep control have been too liberal? and that is why it failed? George Bush and teh current republican party too liberal??? And so the prosperity of the previous 8 years under Clinton were what? Conservative?

Are you confused, or just refusing to admit you and your beloved party were totally wrong and made a mess? Or are you just trying to distance yourself from them now that the results are in?

I did not blame liberals for the GOP's problems. I blamed GOP RINO's and the party not having a good leader. You'd have realized that if you'd have read my post.

Yes, the last 8 years have been too liberal for being GOP controlled. Yes, if the GOP had stayed Conservative they would not be in the position they are in today.
I've stated this many times in various ways so you can take your motive questioning and shove it up your ass. Now please actually READ what I post instead of ASSume I didn't answer your question just because I didn't answer it the way you wanted me to or presumed I should.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: seemingly random
The 'liberal' republicans got us into a war in iraq. An unsupportable war. How quickly we forget.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The liberal Republicans got us into the war in Iraq???????????????????????????

Are you out of your mind or just insane stupid, GWB&co, GWB&co, and GWB&co got us into the war in Iraq and used phony intel to do it.

Incompetent mismanagement of the Iraq war on the part of GWB&co. was just icing on the cake.

The fact that GWB&co fooled a not sufficiently skeptical congress, should not disguise
the fact that the deception was bi partisan. And a broad cross section of congressional liberals and conservatives were fooled. In what amounts to a two trillion dollar or more mistake that may well cost a million or more innocents deaths.

If the shoe fits, GWB&co must wear it.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

I did not blame liberals for the GOP's problems. I blamed GOP RINO's and the party not having a good leader. You'd have realized that if you'd have read my post.

Yes, the last 8 years have been too liberal for being GOP controlled. Yes, if the GOP had stayed Conservative they would not be in the position they are in today.
I've stated this many times in various ways so you can take your motive questioning and shove it up your ass. Now please actually READ what I post instead of ASSume I didn't answer your question just because I didn't answer it the way you wanted me to or presumed I should.

Wow... very angry arent you. OK, as a "liberal jughead", I will now go and shove my motive based question up my ass.

Have a nice election =)