Current NBA Player Comes Out

[xBiffx]

I was more getting at that a gay person has absolutely no idea how a potentially-straight man will react to being hit on by a gay man. Some people will simply wave it off, "no, I'm not gay." Some people will get hostile; "fuck off, i love you." Some people will get downright violent. Gay men have been using subtle codes to express their identity within various social scenes for years (such as handkerchief codes) so that they don't run afoul of angering someone they thought might be gay who isn't keen on their advances.

Excellent points. I have many of the same issues with women. Off to L&R I go.

 

[Retro Rob]

I was more getting at that a gay person has absolutely no idea how a potentially-straight man will react to being hit on by a gay man. Some people will simply wave it off, "no, I'm not gay." Some people will get hostile; "fuck off, i love you." Some people will get downright violent. Gay men have been using subtle codes to express their identity within various social scenes for years (such as handkerchief codes) so that they don't run afoul of angering someone they thought might be gay who isn't keen on their advances.

Well, better that than just walking up to and hitting on some random man that they may find attractive.

Not saying it's ok for straight men to get potentially violent because it isn't, but it sure keeps the peace. Other gay men are keenly aware of those "identifying codes" no doubt.

 

[K1052]

Complete BS on all points. If a star players comes along that has issues with sharing a locker room or if players as a whole start complaining you can bet the franchise and league will do something about it. They aren't going to let a thing like this change their bottom line.

Do tell how having separate locker rooms would be against anti-discrimination laws. Oh, you were just talking out your ass?

To quote David Stern:

"As Adam Silver and I said to Jason, we have known the Collins family since Jason and Jarron joined the NBA in 2001 and they have been exemplary members of the NBA family. Jason has been a widely respected player and teammate throughout his career and we are proud he has assumed the leadership mantle on this very important issue."

And to quote Rodger Goodell:

"The NFL has a long history of valuing diversity and inclusion. Discrimination and harassment based on sexual orientation is not consistent with our values and is unacceptable in the National Football League,"

The leagues have spoken. There will be no bullshit accepted from the clubs or players.


I could easily see workplace discrimination lawsuits being filed in the states that have such protections on the books. California stands out prominently in my mind.

 

[K1052]

Well, better that than just walking up to and hitting on some random man that they may find attractive.

Not saying it's ok for straight men to get potentially violent because it isn't, but it sure keeps the peace. Other gay men are keenly aware of those "identifying codes" no doubt.

With the advent of the internet and smartphones that kind of stuff has fallen by the wayside. There are a plethora of apps devoted to nothing but this now.

 

[Retro Rob]

With the advent of the internet and smartphones that kind of stuff has fallen by the wayside. There are a plethora of apps devoted to nothing but this now.

Even better!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Well, better that than just walking up to and hitting on some random man that they may find attractive.

Do you feel the same way about men approaching random women they may find attractive? What if she turns out to be gay? Should she be allowed to get violent? How dare he approach her without knowing her level of interest, right?

Not saying it's ok for straight men to get potentially violent because it isn't, but it sure keeps the peace. Other gay men are keenly aware of those "identifying codes" no doubt.

In reference to the bolded section... What the everlasting fuck? I know you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but you generally come across as a reasonable person. But saying that violence against gay people, while not acceptable, at least "keeps the peace"? What the hell, man? Yeah, good thing some random psycho out there might beat up a queer for inadvertent eye contact; I don't condone it, but at least it keeps them from eye-humping me! That's pretty much the textbook definition of homophobia; the fear of being perceived as gay. Why are you so concerned that another man might ask you out? How hard is it to say, "not interested?"

 

[Retro Rob]

Do you feel the same way about men approaching random women they may find attractive? What if she turns out to be gay? Should she be allowed to get violent? How dare he approach her without knowing her level of interest, right?

It's normal to approach a person of the opposite sex. While a woman may get offended if she's a lesbian, it's not something abnormal. I don't see the equivalence. In fact, it's expected. What I don't expect, for instance, is for another man to approach me -- but I expect a woman to, though.

In reference to the bolded section... What the everlasting fuck? I know you and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues, but you generally come across as a reasonable person. But saying that violence against gay people, while not acceptable, at least "keeps the peace"? What the hell, man? Yeah, good thing some random psycho out there might beat up a queer for inadvertent eye contact; I don't condone it, but at least it keeps them from eye-humping me! That's pretty much the textbook definition of homophobia; the fear of being perceived as gay. Why are you so concerned that another man might ask you out? How hard is it to say, "not interested?"

???

I don't think you understood me. Keeping the peace simply meant not approaching a random guy because most men are not gay. You might offend him if you aren't sure. We certainly don't want gay men offending straight men, or visa versa.

My bad if I was unclear on that.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I don't think you understood me. Keeping the peace simply meant not approaching a random guy because most men are not gay. You might offend him if you aren't sure. We certainly don't want gay men offending straight men, or visa versa.

My bad if I was unclear on that.

That peace is only being kept through a fear of violent repercussions; that's hardly a noble solution to the problem of being offended that someone you aren't interested in had the nerve to hit on you. And, frankly, I don't get why a gay man hitting on you is offensive. Just tell him "no." How hard is that? Where does the offense come in? Are you offended that someone perceived you as gay? Why? Is it because we have a long history stigmatizing homosexuality as something that people should be ashamed of? Shit, the stereotypical gay man of today is in great shape with an excellent sense of style. If someone confuses you as gay, thank them for the compliment.

 

[Retro Rob]

That peace is only being kept through a fear of violent repercussions; that's hardly a noble solution to the problem of being offended that someone you aren't interested in had the nerve to hit on you. And, frankly, I don't get why a gay man hitting on you is offensive. Just tell him "no." How hard is that? Where does the offense come in? Are you offended that someone perceived you as gay? Why? Is it because we have a long history stigmatizing homosexuality as something that people should be ashamed of? Shit, the stereotypical gay man of today is in great shape with an excellent sense of style. If someone confuses you as gay, thank them for the compliment.

We're losing each other here -- I am not saying "out of fear of violence", but out of respect for another man who is likely straight.

Putting myself in their shoes, I would take the respect route 10 time out of 10...and opt to use the other tools mentioned for finding other partners of the same sexuality.

If I were in a room where at least 80% of the women were lesbians, I'd play the numbers and opt not to approach any of them. I'd find a "straight" woman's hang out because (1) I know I'd tick most of the women in the current room off, and (2) the chances of me finding a partner greatly increases elsewhere.

EDIT: and I probably misspoke in the bold...but the point I am conveying is that I'd respect the fact that most likely aren't interested in men.

 

[pcgeek11]

Because every time you mention your wife, that you enter a public space with her, that you smile at her over dinner at a restaurant, you are doing what he has been unable to do until now. If he had done any of those things (it sounds like he's never even had a boyfriend), he would be hounded and stalked by press desperate for a story as Kerry Rhodes was, unable to control the story.

Good for Jason Collins. I hope someday being a gay athlete isn't a major story (or one at all), but until then I admire him for his courage.

He was able to do it even before now. He just didn't have the balls to do it.

Really nobody really cares if he is Gay or not...

 

[jackstar7]

Really nobody really cares if he is Gay or not...

You know reality counters that notion, right? Lots of people apparently cared a great deal.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you think a gay man will treat you any different than a straight man in the locker room? This argument is becoming absolutely moronic.

Do you think that only heterosexual males will treat their sexual interests any differently there?

 

[shadow9d9]

He was able to do it even before now. He just didn't have the balls to do it.

Really nobody really cares if he is Gay or not...

A lot of people do, including many in this thread. Amazing how you could pretend it is otherwise.

 

[zsdersw]

Valid points. This is exactly why I asked about separate male/female locker rooms. It would seem that much of the reason behind this is for the comfort of both sexes. That is unless you think its to just to avoid rape as some morons on here seem to believe. If it is about comfort or not making people feel uncomfortable when undressing then why not apply the same standard here. If people have a problem sharing a locker room with a homosexual person, make two locker rooms.

No one is saying that just because they are attracted to the same sex they are going to sneak a peak, or walk around with a raging hard on. There is no guarantee this happens between any given man or woman or group of men or women. But we still have separate locker rooms because the potential is there. Same principle could be applied here, could it not?

1. Gender differences make people uncomfortable because we're naturally more comfortable with something that looks the same as what we have (penises or breasts, for example) but are less comfortable, at first, with seeing something different on people with whom we aren't deeply familiar.

2. Men, whether they're gay or straight.. and women, whether they're lesbian or straight.. are already familiar with their gender's anatomy; there is much less natural bashfulness.

3. Suddenly becoming uncomfortable because you now know one of your existing teammates is gay is merely a function of sexual insecurity or, as I said, being a pussy.

 

[zsdersw]

Really nobody really cares if he is Gay or not...

Yet you do, because you posted in this thread.

 

[xBiffx]

1. Gender differences make people uncomfortable because we're naturally more comfortable with something that looks the same as what we have (penises or breasts, for example) but are less comfortable, at first, with seeing something different on people with whom we aren't deeply familiar.

2. Men, whether they're gay or straight.. and women, whether they're lesbian or straight.. are already familiar with their gender's anatomy; there is much less natural bashfulness.

3. Suddenly becoming uncomfortable because you now know one of your existing teammates is gay is merely a function of sexual insecurity or, as I said, being a pussy.

1. You love making excuses don't you. You also love pretending that what you believe/think is what everyone should believe/think. Gender differences don't bother a lot of people, most are called adults. This isn't about gender differences either, never was. Its about comfort or discomfort within a locker room.

2. Again, adults don't really suffer from "bashfulness". They are well aware what the other sex looks like. Anatomy was never the discussion here as much as would like to duh-vert to that topic. Having the same anatomy and being familiar with it doesn't change the fact that they have different urges.

3. Yet again, you keep saying the same thing over and over again. There is nothing sudden about it. It was triggered by another "sudden" event in another player coming out of the closet. But its okay for him to hold secrets for years and then when he lets it out, its wrong for others to be uncomfortable with it. Guess when/if a female player comes along in a male sport and is allowed to participate she is just a pussy for wanting a separate locker room. Oh wait, she's gonna get raped if she doesn't get one. Nevermind.

 

[zsdersw]

1. You love making excuses don't you. You also love pretending that what you believe/think is what everyone should believe/think.

.. but enough about you.

Gender differences don't bother a lot of people, most are called adults. This isn't about gender differences either, never was. Its about comfort or discomfort within a locker room.

You don't think gender differences bother a lot of people? You don't think adults often are and act no different than children? Wow, well whatever you're smoking must be really good shit. I suppose most adults don't blush or have a knee-jerk reaction of "looking away" when they see the anatomy of the opposite sex... which is 100% wrong.

Yes it is about comfort or discomfort... and gender differences are a part of that discomfort.

2. Again, adults don't really suffer from "bashfulness". They are well aware what the other sex looks like. Anatomy was never the discussion here as much as would like to duh-vert to that topic. Having the same anatomy and being familiar with it doesn't change the fact that they have different urges.

Adults aren't really bashful? Again, WTF are you smoking? Adults are very often little more than children with the ability/freedom to drink, drive, smoke, and vote... and sometimes with better vocabularies and a keen ability to manipulate people... but they can and very often are quite bashful.

Yes adults are familiar with the male and female anatomies, but that doesn't mean they're immune to being either embarrassed to look at or be seen, in the nude, by someone of the opposite sex.

3. Yet again, you keep saying the same thing over and over again.

Yes I am saying many of the same things over and over again... because you're being stupid and don't seem to get it.

There is nothing sudden about it. It was triggered by another "sudden" event in another player coming out of the closet. But its okay for him to hold secrets for years and then when he lets it out, its wrong for others to be uncomfortable with it.

I don't really assign "right" or "wrong" to it, I just question their sexual security and maturity if they're now, all of a sudden, uncomfortable in the locker room. These are professional athletes... being paid to do what they do. They should act like professionals, not give in to their childish fear of things they can't understand/empathize with... in this case, homosexuals.

Guess when/if a female player comes along in a male sport and is allowed to participate she is just a pussy for wanting a separate locker room. Oh wait, she's gonna get raped if she doesn't get one. Nevermind.

Oh, go fuck yourself. Rape, specifically, and unwanted advances in general are one aspect, never said it was the only aspect.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If you think discomfort on its own constitutes an argument, you could apply it to any kind of segregation, including sexuality.

 

[shadow9d9]

1. You love making excuses don't you. You also love pretending that what you believe/think is what everyone should believe/think. Gender differences don't bother a lot of people, most are called adults. This isn't about gender differences either, never was. Its about comfort or discomfort within a locker room.

2. Again, adults don't really suffer from "bashfulness". They are well aware what the other sex looks like. Anatomy was never the discussion here as much as would like to duh-vert to that topic. Having the same anatomy and being familiar with it doesn't change the fact that they have different urges.

3. Yet again, you keep saying the same thing over and over again. There is nothing sudden about it. It was triggered by another "sudden" event in another player coming out of the closet. But its okay for him to hold secrets for years and then when he lets it out, its wrong for others to be uncomfortable with it. Guess when/if a female player comes along in a male sport and is allowed to participate she is just a pussy for wanting a separate locker room. Oh wait, she's gonna get raped if she doesn't get one. Nevermind.

As I already explained, it wouldn't be safe for women if locker rooms were combined. Women are not as physically strong as men... you are making a terrible argument.

 

[xBiffx]

As I already explained, it wouldn't be safe for women if locker rooms were combined. Women are not as physically strong as men... you are making a terrible argument.

But assuming rape is not a terrible argument. Gotcha.

 

[shadow9d9]

But assuming rape is not a terrible argument. Gotcha.

Huh? No one is assuming rape. I said that the physical differences creates an unsafe environment. This is not the same as someone of the same sex.

 

[xBiffx]

Huh? No one is assuming rape. I said that the physical differences creates an unsafe environment. This is not the same as someone of the same sex.

So why don't we separate men and women all the time, if its so unsafe for women to be around men. Your argument is the terrible one here.

 

[shadow9d9]

So why don't we separate men and women all the time, if its so unsafe for women to be around men. Your argument is the terrible one here.

Simply because locker rooms are enclosed spaces, meant for privacy and safety. This is the reason locker rooms have always had separate ones for each sex. If you think the argument is terrible, then you are arguing against an idea that continues to be used the world over.

How about, instead of doubling down on being ridiculous, you just admit that you are afraid of gay people. Are you afraid that they will convert you?

 

[xBiffx]

Simply because locker rooms are enclosed spaces, meant for privacy and safety. This is the reason locker rooms have always had separate ones for each sex. If you think the argument is terrible, then you are arguing against an idea that continues to be used the world over.

How about, instead of doubling down on being ridiculous, you just admit that you are afraid of gay people. Are you afraid that they will convert you?

Locker rooms have never been about safety. You are doubling down on stupid and making shit up to fit your argument.

As far as privacy, you bet. But then providing privacy comes down to increasing your level of comfort while you change. Which is exactly what I have been saying.

Afraid of gay people, lol. Your reading comprehension is up there with your argument skills.

 

[jackstar7]

How about, instead of doubling down on being ridiculous, you just admit that you are afraid of gay people. Are you afraid that they will convert you?

The last thing he is is afraid of gay people.

No, he's just bored and fucking around.