CUDA vs OpenCL needs a reality check...

[wand3r3r]

Why haven`t this guy been banned yet? He does nothing but troll this forum

Lay off, you already got warned about getting banned.

 

[Cloudfire777]

(nothing to see here)

 

[notty22]

NVIDIA CUDA Supports Python - Programmers Jump With Joy

Only commenting to offer a opposing opinion to 'cuda is dead' line some are repeating. Nvidia dominates graphic workstations, Cuda and Nvidia hardware is in the top super-computers. Along with speed is environment stability. Quality of drivers. The amount of professionals using Nvidia / Cuda speaks for itself. How does it not?

 

[Jaydip]

Any threads regardless of content will initiate a fan war in VC&G.I only hope these guys don't meet in the open, the brawl that will ensue Will be fun to see Read vs Hensen though

 

[wand3r3r]

It's obviously the language of choice atm, I think the speculation is more about the future. Either way I don't think it will be going anywhere anytime soon.

That said Python looks interesting.

 

[Olikan]

NVIDIA CUDA Supports Python - Programmers Jump With Joy

1 year or so late, than OCL

 

[notty22]

1 year or so late, than OCL

The Tech landscape is constantly fluid. I have no idea what your late comment means.

 

[Imouto]

1 year or so late, than OCL

And Python is free software.

 

[ams23]

But oon will will see if OpenCL has caught op to CUDA:
http://blogs.amd.com/work/2013/04/04/sneak-peek-adobe-premiere-pro-next-gpu-performance-testing/

The specified Max Power Consumption, Adobe Premiere Pro Next Performance (on pre-release software which may or may not be performance optimized in the GPU driver software), and Street Price for each Quadro card and each FirePro card used in the comparison is as follows:

Quadro K2000 (2GB GDDR5 RAM, $429 USD): 51w
FirePro W5000 (2GB GDDR5 RAM, $449 USD): 75w
--> 47.1% higher Max Power Consumption for FirePro model
--> 27% higher Premiere Pro Next Performance for FirePro model
--> 4.7% higher Street Price for FirePro model

Quadro K4000 (3GB GDDR5 RAM, $809 USD): 80w
FirePro W7000 (4GB GDDR5 RAM, $769 USD): 150w
--> 87.5% higher Max Power Consumption for FirePro model
--> 12% higher Premiere Pro Next Performance for FirePro model
--> 4.9% lower Street Price for FirePro model

Quadro K5000 (4GB GDDR5 RAM, $1799 USD): 122w
FirePro W8000 (4GB GDDR5 RAM, $1449 USD): 225w
--> 84.4% higher Max Power Consumption for FirePro model
--> 8% higher Premiere Pro Next Performance for FirePro model
--> 19.5% lower Street Price for FirePro model

Quadro K5000 (4GB GDDR5 RAM, $1799 USD): 122w
FirePro W9000 (6GB GDDR5 RAM, $3399 USD): 274w
--> 124.6% higher Max Power Consumption for FirePro model
--> 16% higher Premiere Pro Next Performance for FirePro model
--> 88.9% higher Street Price for FirePro model

Notice a trend regarding GPU Max Power Consumption in this comparison? Notice that the Premiere Pro Next Performance differences are relatively small, all things considered? Perhaps the biggest flaw in this comparison (other than the skewed max power consumption) is that the Premiere Pro Next Performance barely changes when moving from one GPU to another, even when comparing different GPU's from the same manufacturer.

 

[sontin]

And here is a comparison with a card on the same power level:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-performance-review,3442-10.html

There is a reason why AMD chose cards with a different power consumption level...

 

[Arkadrel]

And here is a comparison with a card on the same power level:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-performance-review,3442-10.html

There is a reason why AMD chose cards with a different power consumption level...

A more detailed Benchmark, done with more effects/filters and cards:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CS6-GPU-Acceleration-161/

680 takes 18sec.
7750 takes 20,25sec.

What the script for the benchmark does:

The V3 suite comprises the following tests:
1: Texturiser Test (1)
A canvas filter with scaling set to 112 and relief 10. Light direction, bottom without invert texture.
2: CMYK Colour Conversion
Important for all the professionals as this 4 plate (cyan, magenta, yellow and black (k-key colour)) colour mode is used in graphics bureaus and printing presses for colour reproduction to newsprint or magazine. Digital photographs will be converted to this mode for final output.
3: RGB Colour Conversion
Important test for web designers as this colour mode is used for webpages and will be the mode of choice for digital images raw from the camera.
4: Ink Outlines
A relatively demanding test which applies a brush stroke filter to the image.
Stroke length: 6. Dark Intensity: 20. Light Intensity: 11.
5: Dust and Scratches
A filter which is used quite widely by professionals scanning less than perfect original flat copy. Radius is set to 3 and Threshold is set to 36.
6: Watercolor
An artistic filter to create a realistic watercolor image.
Brush detail: 11. Shadow Intensity: 3. Texture: 1
7: Texturiser Test (2)
A canvas filter follow up to the first with a variation of settings. Scaling: 67. Relief 9. Light Direction, top right with invert texture applied.
8: Stained Glass
A very intensive filter which seen recent optimisations in CS2/3. Cell size: 6. Border Thickness: 3 and Light Intensity: 4
9: Lighting Effects.
Light source, RGB colour. Red 255, Green 255, Blue 255. With light enabled. Focus 69, Intensity 35 in Spotlight light mode. Position 50: 50. Vector 0: 84.112.91.589. Vector 1: 28.037.67.757. Radius: 13.551. Light source RGB colour. Red 255, Green 255 and Blue 255. With light on, Focus 69 and Intensity 45 in Spotlight mode. Position 22.897.95.794. Vector 1: 25.701,35,514. Radius 13.551. Current light 2, Gloss 47. Material 30, Exposure 17, Ambience 27, Ambient Colour RGB. Red 255, Green 255 and Blue 255. Frame Width 69.626.
10: Mosiac Tiles
Makes use of memory bandwidth, Tile size 5. Grout Width: 2. and lighten Grout 9
11. Extrude
One of the most intensive filters and a test of CPU core efficiency and memory bandwidth
Size 12. Depth 16. Without solid front faces. Without mask incomplete blocks. Type: Blocks.
12: Smart Blur
Another intensive filter which puts an emphasis on overall system FSB, cpu and memory performance
Radius 20.7. Threshold 28.7. Quality high and mode normal
13: Underpainting
Brush size 2, Texture coverage 23. Texture type,. Canvas. Scaling 100, Relief 6, Light direction top with invert texture
14: Palette Knife
Stroke size 23, Stroke detail 3 and softness 0
15: Sponge
Brush size 2, Definition 12 and Smoothness 5

Honestly their at the point where speed probably isnt a big issue reguardless of which GPU your useing.

There is a reason why AMD chose cards with a different power consumption level.

Yes.... just like the 680 uses more power than a 7750 right?
Dispite it barely being faster in this benchmark too.

There is a bottleneck somewhere, that's holding the GPU's back.
Even so, even the low level cards are pretty fast.


Want to see something silly?

^ look at that little APU go.

A8-3850 (iGPU (no discrete)) > AMD FX 8150 + AMD 7970 (discrete card
94.17 secounds ---------- vs --------- 108.20 secounds.


To me thats proof that the APU concept works.
When you have a slow CPU, by useing OpenCL beats stronger CPU+GPU, while useing much less power.

 

[Wreckem]

Yes
http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313/.../home/shop_mac

Mac Pro is the only one with AMD cards, and its GPUs from the 5000 series. The rest is with the 600 series from Nvidia

They have added support for 7XXX series because its expected they will have an option for them in updated MacPros later this year.

 

[Keysplayr]

And once again, what has AT video forum established? That each side can find graphs that solely support their agenda. Ad nauseum. Useless.

 

[Lonyo]

And once again, what has AT video forum established? That each side can find graphs that solely support their agenda. Ad nauseum. Useless.

Each side?
You mean each of the three "sides", AMD, NV and Intel?

The problem that AT Video Forum has is that they are far too focused on AMD vs NV.
AT Video forum needs to wake up and realise Intel is going to join the party, and rather than arguing about AMD vs NV, they should be considering how the future might look with Intel taking part, since we're in a thread about non-3D gaming stuff.

But too many people want to shout about AMD or NV instead and ignore the bigger picture (being the other 50% of the GPU market...)

 

[AnandThenMan]

And once again, what has AT video forum established? That each side can find graphs that solely support their agenda. Ad nauseum. Useless.

Are you being forced to post here? You have nothing good to say about this place, don't like it go somewhere else.

But too many people want to shout about AMD or NV instead and ignore the bigger picture (being the other 50% of the GPU market...)

We don't talk about Intel when it comes to gaming graphics because there is nothing worth talking about.

 

[Lonyo]

Are you being forced to post here? You have nothing good to say about this place, don't like it go somewhere else.

We don't talk about Intel when it comes to gaming graphics because there is nothing worth talking about.

Imagine if this thread wasn't about gaming graphics...

 

[AnandThenMan]

Imagine if this thread wasn't about gaming graphics...

Imagine if Intel had a gaming chip that was good at compute, seeing the two go hand in hand.

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm sure Adobe cares about OpenCL that will make their apps run faster on Intel processors with integrated graphics far more than they do about CUDA. Think about it.

 

[notty22]

I'm sure Adobe cares about OpenCL that will make their apps run faster on Intel processors with integrated graphics far more than they do about CUDA. Think about it.

It's a possibility. It still comes down to whether the creation runs on the cpu or gpu. With Intel that can be cpu/or igpu. With Nvidia it will be the gpu in Cuda or open cl. That makes a lot of choices. Depending on stability and speed, will dictate what's available to the operator.

Also, this debate about open CL being free, ends at the programming level.
A user of any Adobe product has to buy, the adobe software or upgrade. At the given cost. The Adobe user also has to buy any hardware he is using, a AMD APU/ GPU running open CL is not free/lol (stating the obvious?), if not proven to be the most stable/ and or fastest along with cost is what will effect buyers.

The recent article here at Anands.

Premiere Pro is Adobe’s popular non-linear video editor (NLE), which in version CS5 (2010) added support for a collection of GPU-accelerated effects with Adobe’s Mercury Playback Engine. However at the time support was limited to NVIDIA cards due to the use of CUDA, leaving AMD out in the cold, due in part to the fact that Adobe was not satisfied with the state of OpenCL at the time. On the Mac this changed somewhat in CS6 when Adobe added OpenCL support for some (but not quite all) effects, while the PC version of CS6 continued to be CUDA powered.

As is often the case, AMD has been working directly with Adobe to get OpenCL integrated into Premiere Pro, and in fact today’s announcement comes by the way of AMD rather than Adobe. Adobe for their part isn’t saying much about Premiere Pro Next at this time –

I don't know where you are citing what Adobe cares more about. Because in the past it was with Cuda.

 

[Dark Shroud]

I was under the impression that Intel runs OpenCL on the CPU cores not their IGP.

 

[SPBHM]

I was under the impression that Intel runs OpenCL on the CPU cores not their IGP.

Sandy Bridge IGP cannot run OpenCL, ivy bridge IGP can.

opencl on the IGP for haswell and ivy, and on the CPU for sandy:

 

[3DVagabond]

(1)It's a possibility. It still comes down to whether the creation runs on the cpu or gpu. With Intel that can be cpu/or igpu. With Nvidia it will be the gpu in Cuda or open cl. That makes a lot of choices. Depending on stability and speed, will dictate what's available to the operator.

(2)Also, this debate about open CL being free, ends at the programming level.
A user of any Adobe product has to buy, the adobe software or upgrade. At the given cost. The Adobe user also has to buy any hardware he is using, a AMD APU/ GPU running open CL is not free/lol (stating the obvious?), if not proven to be the most stable/ and or fastest along with cost is what will effect buyers.

The recent article here at Anands.





(3)I don't know where you are citing what Adobe cares more about. Because in the past it was with Cuda.

(1) For Adobe it's about their customers and their customer base. It's in their best interest for their products to require fewer system resources. This expands the possible customer base. Not needing a discrete GPU at all is better than requiring one to run CUDA on. If you take Intel integrated GPU and AMD APU market share, it far outsizes CUDA market share. For professionals that would require higher performance they can buy whatever add in card they needed. Whether it be nVidia, AMD, or Intel (Xeon Phi). Any of them can run OpenCL. Only one can run CUDA.

(2) The programming being free directly effects the price Adobe customers pay. Again, OpenCL doesn't require specialized hardware for the customers. Any CPU, APU, Integrated graphics, and/or graphics card/Xeon Phi card can run it. Lower cost for the end user is a good thing when selling software.

(3) CUDA was the best option. It doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 

[Imouto]

It's a possibility. It still comes down to whether the creation runs on the cpu or gpu. With Intel that can be cpu/or igpu.

You can run OpenCL in multiple enabled devices at once. The ray tracer I talked about earlier can run over CPU + iGPU + GPU + Network Rendering at once.

Also, this debate about open CL being free, ends at the programming level.
A user of any Adobe product has to buy, the adobe software or upgrade. At the given cost. The Adobe user also has to buy any hardware he is using, a AMD APU/ GPU running open CL is not free/lol (stating the obvious?), if not proven to be the most stable/ and or fastest along with cost is what will effect buyers.

Free as in unbound, independent and such, not free as in gratis. Looks like it's still a concept really hard to understand after all these years.

 

[notty22]

You can run OpenCL in multiple enabled devices at once. The ray tracer I talked about earlier can run over CPU + iGPU + GPU + Network Rendering at once.



Free as in unbound, independent and such, not free as in gratis. Looks like it's still a concept really hard to understand after all these years.

I understand, lol, misrepresented by you in posts most likely based on idealistic, ignorance, perception of reality.

 

[Imouto]

Yeah, sorry if that idealistic stuff is facerolling every single market lately.