Cuba Thread

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: ric1287
You keep flip flopping on your arguments. Now you are down to "its not a wasteland", while in previous posts you say you compare it to modern Europe, say you would rather live there than USA, that there is no poverty....etc. Now your GF went from:

1.) having dinner with a random family (which also happens to prove that the entire island is perfect somehow)
2.)An extensive traveler of the island.
3.) A 5 time explorer.

Are you starting to see why this sends of idiot alarms in 99% of people?

I cropped the beginning of your post because your repeated crap is starting to really annoy me.

In response to the rest: I really felt no need to involve my GF in this thread. It was only after being pestered by numerous people that I decided to share more about her travels in Cuba. I'm sure she has pics to prove that she has been there 5 times, if you want. She might even have pics of her having dinner with them for all I know. She certainly has pictures of Havana. I'll talk to her tonight and see what I can do; she's at work now (I'm a teacher).

By the way, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from referring to people as 'idiots'. I'm far from it. You don't even know me. I'm tempted to contact the mods, so watch it.

so calling people "beligerant rude americans" doesn't fall under that either? Please don't tell on me!!!

Anyways, if you felt no need to bring her into this, then why is she one of your first arguments? People are getting heated over this because you come off all high and mighty that America is some rotten place, while trying to convince us that Cuba is paradise. While the entire time, not using any factual evidence other than "i went to a resort and walked around on the street" and ignoring facts that people have posted. But whatever, these arguments are stupid, you refuse to believe that you could be wrong so theres no use.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: ric1287
You keep flip flopping on your arguments. Now you are down to "its not a wasteland", while in previous posts you say you compare it to modern Europe, say you would rather live there than USA, that there is no poverty....etc. Now your GF went from:

1.) having dinner with a random family (which also happens to prove that the entire island is perfect somehow)
2.)An extensive traveler of the island.
3.) A 5 time explorer.

Are you starting to see why this sends of idiot alarms in 99% of people?

I cropped the beginning of your post because your repeated crap is starting to really annoy me.

In response to the rest: I really felt no need to involve my GF in this thread. It was only after being pestered by numerous people that I decided to share more about her travels in Cuba. I'm sure she has pics to prove that she has been there 5 times, if you want. She might even have pics of her having dinner with them for all I know. She certainly has pictures of Havana. I'll talk to her tonight and see what I can do; she's at work now (I'm a teacher).

By the way, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from referring to people as 'idiots'. I'm far from it. You don't even know me. I'm tempted to contact the mods, so watch it.

oh please do tell the mods. i would like to see the response you get over it.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Pfft. I'd like to see you teach in a second language and design countless buildings and site layouts for major corporations. :roll:

So you are a part time TOESL instructor who dabbles in architecture? Is your name Art Vandalay, per chance?

Actually I teach gifted and learning disabled children in a French Immersion elementary school.

As for the rest of your post, I can see why you would be skeptical. I would be too had I not visited Cuba for myself.

By the way, I'm pretty sure the people there are thankful to not have a weight problem, and really with the beaches there I had no desire to watch TV or drive a car. It was actually a strange phenominon driving again once I got back; it was so nice not needing to drive anywhere!

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Linflas
Once again I have to ask then why did you include this? From that one little section you took it from talking about a vacation in Cuba to inviting discussion and debate about Cuba.

The funny thing was, there was a show on local radio the day before I left talking about how evil Catro is, how many people he kills each year, and how Cuba had better quality of life than most of Europe did in the 50's (but not anymore - he said something along the lines of no Hatians being willing to move there). IMO they have equal quality of life to Europe TODAY.

Thoughts?

The entire point of my thread was to express how shocked I was after visiting Cuba (it's even in the title of the thread!). That snipit was to explain *why* I was shocked. Everything I had heard about Cuba before I visited there was complete and utter nonsense.

I can see your point; this thread *could* have fit into P&N...but really why do you care? It's pretty grey-area IMO. It's about my vacation.

The whole point of internet forums is to have discussion and debate. The people who flame and insult others have it all wrong. :light:

Not once in any of my numerous responses in this thread have I flamed or insulted you or Canada. I do however totally reject your rosy picture of Cuba based on what you saw from a Soviet "Intourist" style visit. You do know that anyone you tipped on your visit had to give up those US dollars before they went home at night?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I doubt life in Cuba is as rosy as the OP wants to believe it is...othewise, Cubans wouldn't risk EVERYTHING to leave in droves.

As for the Government's food program:

http://www.durangoherald.com/a...s/04/news040504_21.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Internat...l/wireStory?id=3338659

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FE482

Although I'm sure the OP will denounce those as "right-wing propaganda", it appears that the Cuban government helps supplement the food supply of the people living there, but doesn't actually provide ALL their food...just a meager ration equal to about 11 calories per day.

Your links are fine. If you read them, they say that the food shortage was caused by a hurricane, not the government, and goes on to talk about the harm that the US embargo is doing to the island.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Linflas
Once again I have to ask then why did you include this? From that one little section you took it from talking about a vacation in Cuba to inviting discussion and debate about Cuba.

The funny thing was, there was a show on local radio the day before I left talking about how evil Catro is, how many people he kills each year, and how Cuba had better quality of life than most of Europe did in the 50's (but not anymore - he said something along the lines of no Hatians being willing to move there). IMO they have equal quality of life to Europe TODAY.

Thoughts?

The entire point of my thread was to express how shocked I was after visiting Cuba (it's even in the title of the thread!). That snipit was to explain *why* I was shocked. Everything I had heard about Cuba before I visited there was complete and utter nonsense.

I can see your point; this thread *could* have fit into P&N...but really why do you care? It's pretty grey-area IMO. It's about my vacation.

The whole point of internet forums is to have discussion and debate. The people who flame and insult others have it all wrong. :light:

Not once in any of my numerous responses in this thread have I flamed or insulted you or Canada. I do however totally reject your rosy picture of Cuba based on what you saw from a Soviet "Intourist" style visit. You do know that anyone you tipped on your visit had to give up those US dollars before they went home at night?

I did not know that about the tips, and that's very sad if true. It doesn't make sense, however, seeing as one of our bartenders was a doctor who said he made more money bartending than he did as a doctor because of the tips.

They no longer accept the US dollar. The use 'Cuban Convertable Pesos' which are ironically worth more than the US dollar.

I appreciate your peaceful nature in this thread.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

Thank-you. I can't say I disagree, even after all of my travels (although the thought of being dirt poor on those Cuban beaches is appealing; that's how nice they were). You're probably right. My GF and I have not seen *all* of Cuba, and perhaps the houses look nice on the outside but we have no idea what goes on inside.

I'm appalled by the response I got as well. I've never seen anything close to this bad in my 7 years of posting here. I appreciate the support. :thumbsup:

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

did you skip over his numerous American bashing posts or what? True there are some over-zelout Americans, but its not like this guy didn't bring all this on himself with all the nonsense he posted.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

did you skip over his numerous American bashing posts or what? True there are some over-zelout Americans, but its not like this guy didn't bring all this on himself with all the nonsense he posted.

My stuff was in response to maybe 5-10 people all bashing me needlessly, and I wasn't *nearly* as bad as they were! Can I not refer to someone as 'beligerant' or 'rude' after they refer to me as an 'idiot' or a 'moron'? I mean, seriously. :roll:

 

[Jeffwo]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
It's retarded that the US embargo still exists.

True...give us a few months and we would own that lil island...LOL.

 

[UpGrD]

SickBeast

Of all the moronic statements you have made in this post this is the worst.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
did you skip over his numerous American bashing posts or what? True there are some over-zelout Americans, but its not like this guy didn't bring all this on himself with all the nonsense he posted.

My stuff was in response to maybe 5-10 people all bashing me needlessly, and I wasn't *nearly* as bad as they were! Can I not refer to someone as 'beligerant' or 'rude' after they refer to me as an 'idiot' or a 'moron'? I mean, seriously. :roll:[/quote]

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule

By paying taxes I would be supporting their actions. Honestly I would contantly feel compelled to start a revolution and protest all the time.

Yes, and people are willing to pay the US government taxes for 5 years after they leave for another country just so they can escape.

all these were stated after people questioned your ignorance....then they start bashing you cause they realize how ridiculous your arguments are.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: UpGrD
SickBeast

Of all the moronic statements you have made in this post this is the worst.

All of the current instability is simply the insurgents attacking the American troops. Get rid of the troops and Iraq will settle down.

surely you jest? If Amercan troops left, theres no way in hell the they would try to take over, thats just crazy talk!!

/sarcasm

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

here, here
:beer:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
Firstly, I'm an American and I don't agree with SickBeast at all in his assertions that Cuba would be a nicer place to live than America or Europe. I've traveled to many different countries and I can say that there are beautiful parts in any country, and they can be very convincing. Go to the most ghetto areas of America, and you'll find America looks like a third world country. The difference is that these areas are the exception, not the rule in this country-- and the opposite in others like Cuba.

I am appalled, however, that the overall American response to this thread has been overly aggressive/hostile and rude. I read through all the pages in the thread and I think I saw 5 posts by Americans that were level-headed. Are we that insecure about our country that we forget how to compose ourselves?

did you skip over his numerous American bashing posts or what? True there are some over-zelout Americans, but its not like this guy didn't bring all this on himself with all the nonsense he posted.

My stuff was in response to maybe 5-10 people all bashing me needlessly, and I wasn't *nearly* as bad as they were! Can I not refer to someone as 'beligerant' or 'rude' after they refer to me as an 'idiot' or a 'moron'? I mean, seriously. :roll:

of course you can't. It's like how our media brands all Palestinians terrorists when they retaliate against Isreali aggression (being that Isreal's role in inciting violence is never covered by the major media)

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Linflas
Once again I have to ask then why did you include this? From that one little section you took it from talking about a vacation in Cuba to inviting discussion and debate about Cuba.

The funny thing was, there was a show on local radio the day before I left talking about how evil Catro is, how many people he kills each year, and how Cuba had better quality of life than most of Europe did in the 50's (but not anymore - he said something along the lines of no Hatians being willing to move there). IMO they have equal quality of life to Europe TODAY.

Thoughts?

The entire point of my thread was to express how shocked I was after visiting Cuba (it's even in the title of the thread!). That snipit was to explain *why* I was shocked. Everything I had heard about Cuba before I visited there was complete and utter nonsense.

I can see your point; this thread *could* have fit into P&N...but really why do you care? It's pretty grey-area IMO. It's about my vacation.

The whole point of internet forums is to have discussion and debate. The people who flame and insult others have it all wrong. :light:

Not once in any of my numerous responses in this thread have I flamed or insulted you or Canada. I do however totally reject your rosy picture of Cuba based on what you saw from a Soviet "Intourist" style visit. You do know that anyone you tipped on your visit had to give up those US dollars before they went home at night?

I did not know that about the tips, and that's very sad if true. It doesn't make sense, however, seeing as one of our bartenders was a doctor who said he made more money bartending than he did as a doctor because of the tips.

They no longer accept the US dollar. The use 'Cuban Convertable Pesos' which are ironically worth more than the US dollar.

I appreciate your peaceful nature in this thread.

I don't know if their tips are taken at the end of the night. Lets say that they aren't.

Using your own example, doesn't it set off some alarm bells that a doctor made more money bartending for foreigners than he did as a doctor?

You previously stated that native Cubans have all they need aside from freedom and a little extra money and it is because of these last two items that they risk their lives to leave.

You have also stated that you believe that government rations is more than sufficient because you did not see any starving people in the streets.

Have you seen how much is given in a ration? Doesn't the concept of rationing set off alarm bells?

Finally you said that why do you need the TV when you have the beach? Were the guests at your resort predominately Cuban or predominately foreigner?

Was the service staff 100% Cuban? Did you see anybody working in the resort that was an immigrant to Cuba?

In the US, you have many immigrants from other countries who were doctors, engineers, coming here to start out in the service industry. It is very easy to find immigrant workers working minimum wage jobs in the US. doesn't this strike you as a bit odd?

Finally, you talked about immigrating to Cuba. Do you think life would really be that great if you gave up your Canadian salary and was unable to access most of your funds? Would you go work as a bartender in Cuba because it apparently pays better than being a doctor in Cuba so I would assume that bartending for foreigners also pays better than being a teacher.

 

[Kirby]

wow, OP got pwned in teh butt. :Q

 

[Regs]

I'm still trying to make sense of all this.

The Island of Cuba is corrupted from the leader on down to the state hired local labor lords (the ones that take the money from most of its citizens). Capital investment is restricted. Everything is run and controlled by the state. Except for a few private sectors (that could be taken over at will by the government). If I wanted to start a company, it would not be in Cuba, and at least I can offer you that opinion in great confidence.

Castro and his crew simply do not believe in a free market. Fidel Castro let his country go up in smoke after the fall of the Soviet Union because of his foolish pride rather than adopting free market standards. Though in his defense, the one thing he did undertake was to promote tourism in his country by investing the aid from other countries into his tourism infrastructure. Then the allegations of tourist apartheid started. Meaning that the tourists were allowed a better standard of living and goods and services than the actual Cuban citizens. Even though this goes against the Cuban constitution, Fidel thinks that the strict tourism policies are essential to their economy.

The only thing that's really keeping his people alive is the aid from China, the European Union, and Venezuela (large exporter of oil). If it wasn't for the fall of the Soviet Union and the countless natural disasters, I can guarantee you, you wouldn't of never had a pleasant venture there.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

Communism isn't the bad idea, it's when it becomes a tyranny that there's a problem. The US has many problems, communism isn't one of them. The embargo on Cuba is bs..

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

Communism isn't the bad idea, it's when it becomes a tyranny that there's a problem. The US has many problems, communism isn't one of them. The embargo on Cuba is bs..

I have always thought Communism was a good idea. BUT there is no way to implement it. just not going to happen. And yes i think the Embargo on Cuba is silly. but nothing going to happen until Castro dies.

 

[Mill]

This thread is funny. If you judge Cuba by a few tourist resorts or having dinner with a local family then you are just naive. That local family is paid money by the government and is allowed to use meat and other rationed groceries to give you a "nice" experience so you will tell everyone things are great.

Don't believe me? I know someone who used to do such a thing as a guide in Cuba until they escaped. That family? That's their job -- they weren't being nice. I also have quite a few personal accounts from people who have been there on business (other Latins -- not Americans). I'll be happy to let you know the real side of it all. I won't be scared and stay in the nice touristy areas, either. In fact, that's the last thing I want to see.

The embargo is silly and should be lifted. Cuba is not a threat to the US.

 

[SickBeast]

n/m

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
LOL. Dude goes to the touristy parts of Cuba and formulates an impression. Feels strongly enough about it to post on a message board forum. Canadian public school system FTW!!!!

WTF is wrong with you? I have been to Disney World and I am positive that is what the rest of the country is like.

haha, damn you beat me to it!

you mean America doesn't have brick lined streets with large dancing animals on evey corner!!!!! (this is how is argument sounds to me )

No, more like how everything is wastful and most of the people you meet are rude. I'm sorry, but I'm with Sickbeast on this one. My uncle was in Cuba a few months ago for a golf trip, he saw all of the non-touristy stuff. He also went on to say how nice they were, and how they loved their liberty's even if they have very little. Its the same a Mexico, but Mexico is still controlled by the rich and powerful.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: ch33zw1z

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: FoBoT
http://www.pics.bbzzdd.com/bet...itestorm/nocommies.jpg

To be honest, I think I would rather be a Communist than live under Bush's rule.

Communism isn't the bad idea, it's when it becomes a tyranny that there's a problem. The US has many problems, communism isn't one of them. The embargo on Cuba is bs..

I have always thought Communism was a good idea. BUT there is no way to implement it. just not going to happen. And yes i think the Embargo on Cuba is silly. but nothing going to happen until Castro dies.

Or until Castro says he's denouncing communism and is willing to make peace with the American government. I bet Bush wouldn't care though.