Crypto and HR 3684 - urgent attention needed from all!

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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
Most people who currently use crypto are either enthusiasts who use it because they can, or are speculators and so are just trading it. If people can show me something crypto does better than regular currency I’m open to hearing it, but again outside of crime I’ve never seen it. As shown, Bitcoin isn’t a good store of value because it’s wildly unstable. It isn’t good for trade because transaction costs are enormous. It’s just bad at essentially everything except for anonymity. What’s anonymity’s killer app? Crime.

So again, Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc - the base cryptocurrency of a blockchain is not meant to replace fiat currency. Honestly, it took me time to understand this myself. When I first entered the world of crypto, for a long time I was convinced it was too. And this is why almost all speculators (the ones who don't bother to do their own research) try to convince you with stupid reasons like fiat collapse.

So if not to replace fiat currency - what is the point then? Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc are meant to be as you call it, the "Itchy and Scratchy money" that are used to pay for the usage of the blockchain networks they power. So why fake money and not real money? Because you cannot go create a blockchain right now and make a fiat currency the base currency of the blockchain network unless you are the federal government. And since it is orders of magnitude more efficient to have a built-in mechanism as opposed to trying wrap something around the blockchain that pays node operators in fiat currency, the latter isn't an option.

Now with that known - given that governments are usually not the ones responsible for developing new tech and are also very slow to adopt new technology, could blockchain technology have taken off in any other way than it did? Venezuela tried to create their own cryptocurrency called the PETRO in 2018. And guess what - nobody, not even their own citizens adopted it. This is not to say the US wouldn't have better success trying to do something like this on their own - but we will never find out if you remove the talent pool capable of doing that.

Ok - so it cryptocurrency is meant to just power these blockchains, how will they benefit you, or me, or everyone? Here's a quote from Vitalik Buterin:

“Whereas most technologies tend to automate workers on the periphery doing menial tasks, blockchains automate away the center. Instead of putting the taxi driver out of a job, blockchain puts Uber out of a job and lets the taxi drivers work with the customer directly".

This quote doesn't mean the customer will be paying with Ethereum. This means the Ethereum network will enable the customer to interact directly with the tax-driver, both safely and securely. Without the intermediary of Uber, the customer gets a cheaper ride and taxi-driver gets paid more. The only requirement of the customer is that he has a small amount of Ethereum to open and process the transaction of his USDC over to the taxi-driver. And the chances are he may not even need Ethereum: some app will automatically convert his USDC into Ethereum that will be used to pay/process his transaction.

And this is the whole big "without intermediaries" selling point. You remove literally all of the bloat that exists in our current financial system: your bank, your credit payment processor, Uber, plus whatever is one the taxi driver's side, and replace it with one thing: the Ethereum network.

And this is just one of the many benefits.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,242
46,822
136
So again, Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc - the base cryptocurrency of a blockchain is not meant to replace fiat currency. Honestly, it took me time to understand this myself. When I first entered the world of crypto, for a long time I was convinced it was too. And this is why almost all speculators (the ones who don't bother to do their own research) try to convince you with stupid reasons like fiat collapse.

So if not to replace fiat currency - what is the point then? Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc are meant to be as you call it, the "Itchy and Scratchy money" that are used to pay for the usage of the blockchain networks they power. So why fake money and not real money? Because you cannot go create a blockchain right now and make a fiat currency the base currency of the blockchain network unless you are the federal government. And since it is orders of magnitude more efficient to have a built-in mechanism as opposed to trying wrap something around the blockchain that pays node operators in fiat currency, the latter isn't an option.

Now with that known - given that governments are usually not the ones responsible for developing new tech and are also very slow to adopt new technology, could blockchain technology have taken off in any other way than it did? Venezuela tried to create their own cryptocurrency called the PETRO in 2018. And guess what - nobody, not even their own citizens adopted it. This is not to say the US wouldn't have better success trying to do something like this on their own - but we will never find out if you remove the talent pool capable of doing that.

Ok - so it cryptocurrency is meant to just power these blockchains, how will they benefit you, or me, or everyone? Here's a quote from Vitalik Buterin:



This quote doesn't mean the customer will be paying with Ethereum. This means the Ethereum network will enable the customer to interact directly with the tax-driver, both safely and securely. Without the intermediary of Uber, the customer gets a cheaper ride and taxi-driver gets paid more. The only requirement of the customer is that he has a small amount of Ethereum to open and process the transaction of his USDC over to the taxi-driver. And the chances are he may not even need Ethereum: some app will automatically convert his USDC into Ethereum that will be used to pay/process his transaction.

And this is the whole big "without intermediaries" selling point. You remove literally all of the bloat that exists in our current financial system: your bank, your credit payment processor, Uber, plus whatever is one the taxi driver's side, and replace it with one thing: the Ethereum network.

And this is just one of the many benefits.
So again, it provides nothing of value sufficient to sustain itself independently so it relies on speculative investment in Itchy and Scratchy money, which is a giant Ponzi scheme. This is exactly my point.

Crypto. Is. A. Scam.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,835
2,039
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Another big company hit by a ransomware attack - CNN

A deep dive into the operations of the LockBit ransomware group | ZDNet

"If victims reach out, attackers can open a chat window in the LockBit panel to talk to them. Conversations will often start with the ransom demand, payment deadline, method -- usually in Bitcoin (BTC) -- and instructions on how to purchase cryptocurrency."

But cryptocurrency is safe and isn't used for illegal activity. Believe me and change your vote because I want to start a company!!!!

"My main rant: the new business I'd like to launch late this or early next year". LOL, it's all bullshit.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
I never said it wasn't used for or didn't help facilitate illegal activity?

"If victims reach out, attackers can open a chat window in the LockBit panel to talk to them. Conversations will often start with the ransom demand, payment deadline, method -- usually in Bitcoin (BTC) -- and instructions on how to purchase cryptocurrency."

Funny, from your link:

“Through our security controls and protocols, we identified irregular activity in one of our environments,” Jones said in a statement. “We immediately contained the matter and isolated the affected servers. We fully restored our affected systems from back up. There was no impact on Accenture’s operations, or on our clients’ systems.”

Oh look, good IT can mitigate those attacks. Who would have thought!?

Our social security numbers have been leaked multiple times by this point and we're going to complain about some attackers that threatened to leak some encrypted files? Come on - try harder on looking like you actually care that companies with poor security are getting ransomed.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,187
14,087
136
Fskimospy is correct. Crypto currency is really the digital equivalent of bearer bonds. It's more portable than carrying around suitcases full of cash. That's why bearer bonds are not issued anymore, because their only real use was in facilitating criminal activities. Otherwise I don't see any point to it.
 
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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
Fskimospy is correct. Crypto currency is really the digital equivalent of bearer bonds. It's more portable than carrying around suitcases full of cash. That's why bearer bonds are not issued anymore, because their only real use was in facilitating criminal activities. Otherwise I don't see any point to it.

The analogy is interesting and is not necessarily wrong, but it's also incomplete.

If you remove the cryptocurrency, you're left with a blockchain network where users have no rewards mechanism for participating in the network. Cryptocurrency is reason we have seen growth and continued growth of blockchain technology. And so I'd say it serves a very significant point. That is unless you believe there is no point to blockchain technology other than to facilitate criminal activity, in which case your analogy of bearer bonds is complete. But if that's your set in stone belief, then I cannot help you. Otherwise, without cryptocurrency how do you or Fskimospy propose to continue facilitating growth and development (some bad, but we're going to focus on the good) of blockchain technology? Note that trying to wrap some kind of external rewards system around a constantly growing and changing blockchain would be an extreme undertaking and orders of magnitude less efficient than the internal rewards mechanism.

Now going back to the analogy of bearer bonds - if remove bear bonds from... you're left with... nothing of loss? And while you're free to believe that the Bitcoin and Ethereum networks are nothing of loss, because it's true that we could remove them right now and be just fine, we also could have stopped innovating in the 1970s and been fine too.

Cryptocurrency has and continues to facilitate the growth of blockchain technology. The two combined unfortunately happen to be a great tool for criminals. But that doesn't mean it will stay that way forever. And conversely, if you use the technology correctly - you're also 100% safe from criminals yourself.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,187
14,087
136
If you remove the cryptocurrency, you're left with a blockchain network where users have no rewards mechanism for participating in the network.

Cryptocurrency is reason we have seen growth and continued growth of blockchain technology. I'd say it serves a very significant point.

Yet cryptocurrency is used in crime. It promotes crime. And doesn't really do anything else.

If blockchain technology is so important, they can find a better way to develop it.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
The most secure store of value that exists:

1. Buy a hardware wallet like the Ledger Nano X
2. Buy something like the Ledger Steel Capsule to store parts of your key-phrase (so you don't have to memorize the whole thing). It's fireproof.
3. Setup an Ethereum wallet on your hardware wallet
4. Send USD for Coinbase, convert to USDC for free, withdraw to your hardware wallet's Ethereum address (costs maybe $10)

Done. Without access to either the physical hardware device and your PIN code to open the device OR the partial key-phrase you've now buried in your backyard along with a brute force supercomputer, that USDC is not moving anywhere. Your identity could be full on stolen, and that USDC is still not moving anywhere. You could even destroy the hardware wallet and get a new one later down the line restoring your wallet from your saved key. And it gets better: you can even lend that USDC in an Ethereum smart-contract for variable APY that has been as high as 10-30% in the past year (more recently 2-4%).

So not only do you have a bullet proof store of value that's more secure and liquid than gold - it can actually earn you some interest too!

How is something like this not important again?
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
22,892
12,566
136
So again, Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc - the base cryptocurrency of a blockchain is not meant to replace fiat currency. Honestly, it took me time to understand this myself. When I first entered the world of crypto, for a long time I was convinced it was too. And this is why almost all speculators (the ones who don't bother to do their own research) try to convince you with stupid reasons like fiat collapse.

So if not to replace fiat currency - what is the point then? Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc are meant to be as you call it, the "Itchy and Scratchy money" that are used to pay for the usage of the blockchain networks they power. So why fake money and not real money? Because you cannot go create a blockchain right now and make a fiat currency the base currency of the blockchain network unless you are the federal government. And since it is orders of magnitude more efficient to have a built-in mechanism as opposed to trying wrap something around the blockchain that pays node operators in fiat currency, the latter isn't an option.

Now with that known - given that governments are usually not the ones responsible for developing new tech and are also very slow to adopt new technology, could blockchain technology have taken off in any other way than it did? Venezuela tried to create their own cryptocurrency called the PETRO in 2018. And guess what - nobody, not even their own citizens adopted it. This is not to say the US wouldn't have better success trying to do something like this on their own - but we will never find out if you remove the talent pool capable of doing that.

Ok - so it cryptocurrency is meant to just power these blockchains, how will they benefit you, or me, or everyone? Here's a quote from Vitalik Buterin:



This quote doesn't mean the customer will be paying with Ethereum. This means the Ethereum network will enable the customer to interact directly with the tax-driver, both safely and securely. Without the intermediary of Uber, the customer gets a cheaper ride and taxi-driver gets paid more. The only requirement of the customer is that he has a small amount of Ethereum to open and process the transaction of his USDC over to the taxi-driver. And the chances are he may not even need Ethereum: some app will automatically convert his USDC into Ethereum that will be used to pay/process his transaction.

And this is the whole big "without intermediaries" selling point. You remove literally all of the bloat that exists in our current financial system: your bank, your credit payment processor, Uber, plus whatever is one the taxi driver's side, and replace it with one thing: the Ethereum network.

And this is just one of the many benefits.
Ripple. Close the rest?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
34,948
27,796
136
The most secure store of value that exists:

1. Buy a hardware wallet like the Ledger Nano X
2. Buy something like the Ledger Steel Capsule to store parts of your key-phrase (so you don't have to memorize the whole thing). It's fireproof.
3. Setup an Ethereum wallet on your hardware wallet
4. Send USD for Coinbase, convert to USDC for free, withdraw to your hardware wallet's Ethereum address (costs maybe $10)

Done. Without access to either the physical hardware device and your PIN code to open the device OR the partial key-phrase you've now buried in your backyard along with a brute force supercomputer, that USDC is not moving anywhere. Your identity could be full on stolen, and that USDC is still not moving anywhere. You could even destroy the hardware wallet and get a new one later down the line restoring your wallet from your saved key. And it gets better: you can even lend that USDC in an Ethereum smart-contract for variable APY that has been as high as 10-30% in the past year (more recently 2-4%).

So not only do you have a bullet proof store of value that's more secure and liquid than gold - it can actually earn you some interest too!

How is something like this not important again?
And if Ethereum prices crash?
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
And if Ethereum prices crash?

I didn't say to store Ethereum in that example. I said to store USDC. 1 USDC = 1 USD always, no matter the price of Ethereum.

Ripple. Close the rest?

Ripple (or some child of it) could very well be the final result way down the line. If crypto were to stop 5 years ago, it may have been. It's an institutional grade crypto and what Ripple does, it does very well. But as the technology for institutions, it now finds itself behind in innovation as Ripple cannot compromise on the security of untested new features. And so for anything smart-contract related which is what the bulk of dapp development revolves around now - Ripple can do little to none of at this time.

It's also important to note that Ripple isn't a blockchain like Bitcoin. It does use blockchain technology - but its overall decentralized consensus mechanism is private and handled a little differently than that of public blockchain networks like Bitcoin. This actually a great thing - we want to see different approaches. As a result Ripple is super effective and efficient for facilitating the transfer of tokens (near instantly). BUT it may not be able to do anything we see with Ethereum (smart-contract driven decentralized applications) and now Generation 3.0 (self-governance) blockchains. Or it may be, but until we find out it's way too early to "close the rest" and call Ripple the winner since it only does one thing really well, but nothing else.

In my opinion we will end up in a multi-chain world in the future. It may not be possible for one network to be the jack-of-all-trades. But that's kind of what new networks (and even Ethereum with its very slow upgrades) are striving to be.
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
22,892
12,566
136
I didn't say to store Ethereum in that example. I said to store USDC. 1 USDC = 1 USD always, no matter the price of Ethereum.



Ripple (or some child of it) could very well be the final result way down the line. If crypto were to stop 5 years ago, it may have been. It's an institutional grade crypto and what Ripple does, it does very well. But as the technology for institutions, it now finds itself behind in innovation as Ripple cannot compromise on the security of untested new features. And so for anything smart-contract related which is what the bulk of dapp development revolves around now - Ripple can do little to none of at this time.

It's also important to note that Ripple isn't a blockchain like Bitcoin. It does use blockchain technology - but its approach is different. This actually a great thing - we want to see different approaches. As a result it is very effective for facilitating the transfer of tokens (near instantly), BUT may not be able to do anything we see with Ethereum (smart-contract driven dapps) and now Generation 3.0 (self-governance) blockchains. Or it may be, but until we find out it's way too early to "close the rest" and call Ripple the winner.

This is the doom of mainstream crypto:



Its a race to produce most power any means necessary, cause money, cause geopolitical power. The "nature" of our current "climate" makes this dead. Just dead.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,406
15,623
136
The most secure store of value that exists:

1. Buy a hardware wallet like the Ledger Nano X
2. Buy something like the Ledger Steel Capsule to store parts of your key-phrase (so you don't have to memorize the whole thing). It's fireproof.
3. Setup an Ethereum wallet on your hardware wallet
4. Send USD for Coinbase, convert to USDC for free, withdraw to your hardware wallet's Ethereum address (costs maybe $10)

Done. Without access to either the physical hardware device and your PIN code to open the device OR the partial key-phrase you've now buried in your backyard along with a brute force supercomputer, that USDC is not moving anywhere. Your identity could be full on stolen, and that USDC is still not moving anywhere. You could even destroy the hardware wallet and get a new one later down the line restoring your wallet from your saved key. And it gets better: you can even lend that USDC in an Ethereum smart-contract for variable APY that has been as high as 10-30% in the past year (more recently 2-4%).

So not only do you have a bullet proof store of value that's more secure and liquid than gold - it can actually earn you some interest too!

How is something like this not important again?

How is that more secure than an FDIC insured bank?
What happens if the pin code is lost?
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,327
249
106
How is that more secure than an FDIC insured bank?
What happens if the pin code is lost?

1. FDIC is insured up to $250K. Beyond that you either need more account. Additionally FDIC insurance doesn't protect you from ID theft. If someone wires money out of your bank accounts - it's gone. Don't mistake FDIC insurance for some sort of personal catastrophe insurance.
2. You wipe the device (or buy a new one), start it fresh and use the option to recover your wallet using your stored key-phrase (step 2). Once you restore you are back to where you were before with either the same or new pin code.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,406
15,623
136
1. FDIC is insured up to $250K. Beyond that you either need more account. Additionally FDIC insurance doesn't protect you from ID theft. If someone wires money out of your bank accounts - it's gone. Don't mistake FDIC insurance for some sort of personal catastrophe insurance.
2. You wipe the device, start it fresh and use the option to recover your wallet using your stored key-phrase (step 2). Once you restore you are back to where you were before with either the same or new pin code.

Mmm still doesn't sound safer to me. Seems to have a lot of trust and hope something doesn't go wrong to lock you out of your funds.
Any bank is going to put a huge wire transfer on hold for verification.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
20,611
19,128
136
If Blockchain technology was so necessary for our future evolving, it would provide a lot of reward for those that help develop it, just like every other technology that has been developed with the promise of fiat currency and wealth as the reward.

Arguing the technology has to be a currency to motivate development is a stupid argument that ignores everything about our recent history developing technologies and platforms. It's idiotic and cult like.
 
Mar 11, 2004
22,981
5,432
146
If Blockchain technology was so necessary for our future evolving, it would provide a lot of reward for those that help develop it, just like every other technology that has been developed with the promise of fiat currency and wealth as the reward.

Arguing the technology has to be a currency to motivate development is a stupid argument that ignores everything about our recent history developing technologies and platforms. It's idiotic and cult like.

Yup. All the supposed benefits of blockchain and the like should be there regardless of it being tied to a monetary value, yet that's literally the only thing the crypto-evangelists actually care about.

Like I said, I'd be much more fine with them if they were just honest about the fact that they don't want to pay taxes. Yet we get these ever more ridiculous proclamations from them to justify their nonsense and dishonesty. And they're oblivious to how they sound exactly like the dipshits that get sucked into pyramid schemes and cults.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,161
10,084
136
This is the doom of mainstream crypto:



Its a race to produce most power any means necessary, cause money, cause geopolitical power. The "nature" of our current "climate" makes this dead. Just dead.
I really am trying to understand like 5% of what's going on. Is the tracking of all the block chains requiring that muck computer power? Someone please speak english.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,187
14,087
136
I mean wtf?


Yep, it's a terrible energy consumer, right when we need to reduce energy consumption as much as possible.

On a personal note, it's also resulted in not being able to get a half decent video card for gaming for under $500 going on many years now. I know, not the most important issue for humanity but it still irritates the crap out me.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,161
10,084
136
Yep, it's a terrible energy consumer, right when we need to reduce energy consumption as much as possible.

On a personal note, it's also resulted in not being able to get a half decent video card for gaming for under $500 going on many years now. I know, not the most important issue for humanity but it still irritates the crap out me.
And that's because of all the "mining" going on with Nvidia? Or is it because Nvidia chips are being used to mine? For me, I feel like I'm asking ridiculous questions, but it is what it is (to quote the Trump family).