Crossfire Reviews

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SolMiester
Was that the Ti4600 or FX5xxx?, doesnt matter, I stand by what I said, ATI were the All in Wonder great video capture boys when Voodoo was around.Its only because Nvidia bought out Voodoo that ATI thought it would try its hand. I had no choice but to buy GF256 DDR after voodoo went down as ATI couldnt write fast driver code to save themselves. LOL.....

but Image Quality on the GF256 was crap compared to the Rage Fury . . .
[i had both]

by the time Radeon DDR was out, ati HW had nearly caught up with nVidia but their drivers didn't really improve until almost a year after the 8500 was released . .

when the 9700p came out, it blew away nVidia's offerings . . . for a couple of years . . . until the 6800 series

currently, ATI and nVidia are about equal in driver quality with ati releasing drivers more often

However Rage Fury didnt have NE where near the power of the GF's thought did it.....& you said right, ATI catch up, thats why I dont rate them....Crossfire is a SLI rip-off and they stuffed it up with resolution limitations! I just do see how they think ne1 will buy this product when a single card will do the job readily enough.

 

[M0RPH]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Crossfire is best known as "Crapfire" or "Missfire". 16X12 at 60Hz, master/slave cards, dongles, and second tier ATI motherboards add up to Crossfire being DOA. Even a lot of the reviewers are saying they can't recommend it. A muchdifferent story than the original SLI reviews.

LOL- I remember you making a big deal about SLI not working with a 30" Apple monitor. Try "all decent CRTs" this time around. Crossfire as it stands is the biggest debacle foisted on the public in history- no exaggeration. I'd listen to my 5800 U fan for the rest of my life before I'd look at 60Hz for one hour.

Yep, Xfire is pretty crappy but most of us don't really care because we have better things to do with our money than spend nearly $1000 on dual graphics cards. SLI and Xfire are for a few uber-geeks who have a lot of cash to throw away. They just don't matter much.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: rbV5
I'm not sure what NV30, ti4600, AIW, drivers or r520 have to do with Crossfire. Instead of bickering about the same stuff that erupts into some unreadable mess, how about concentrating on the topic?

'cause it's pretty depressing if you prefer ati
:Q

i'm much prefer discussing Xfire2

[in a few months]

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Crossfire is best known as "Crapfire" or "Missfire". 16X12 at 60Hz, master/slave cards, dongles, and second tier ATI motherboards add up to Crossfire being DOA. Even a lot of the reviewers are saying they can't recommend it. A muchdifferent story than the original SLI reviews.

Alot of reviewers also say that even SLI is only recommended for the highest end, currently 7800GTX in SLI. If thats not your target right now, it seems it shouldn't be a consideration, and I'll agree.

As far as the second tier motherboards, I would like to see some reviews of other cards in Crossfire motherboards and see how they compare from a performance/feature standpoint as well.

SLI is a much different picture than Crossfire. At 16X12 4X8X or 16X, 6800GT/U SLI offers some BIG performance advantages over a single 7800GTX on some newer GPU hungry games, and the nV40 feature list is not the primitive R420 feature list.

With SLI you have to weigh better performance at some games against lesser performance at others, and missing TAA and higher res. The 7800GTX makes a really strong case for itself, but with SLI, at least you could say "Hey, the 6800U SLI offered me 10-15 extra frames on Doom3, Far Cry, FEAR, and Riddick and still had most of the GTXs features.

Crossfire offers NOTHING.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: rbV5
I'm not sure what NV30, ti4600, AIW, drivers or r520 have to do with Crossfire. Instead of bickering about the same stuff that erupts into some unreadable mess, how about concentrating on the topic?

'cause it's pretty depressing if you prefer ati
:Q

i'm much prefer discussing Xfire2

[in a few months]

An exclusive club is an expensive club, so it should be a little depressing even if you prefer Nvidia. I had considered Crossfire if it made sense with my current X800XL, now its just not an option, but it wasn't at the top of my list.

 

[rbV5]

SLI is a much different picture than Crossfire. At 16X12 4X8X or 16X, 6800GT/U SLI offers some BIG performance advantages over a single 7800GTX on some newer GPU hungry games, and the nV40 feature list is not the primitive R420 feature list.

With SLI you have to weigh better performance at some games against lesser performance at others, and missing TAA and higher res. The 7800GTX makes a really strong case for itself, but with SLI, at least you could say "Hey, the 6800U SLI offered me 10-15 extra frames on Doom3, Far Cry, FEAR, and Riddick and still had most of the GTXs features.

Crossfire offers NOTHING.

I don't think there's much question that only a top end SLI rig makes sense, as long as single card performance is even close to all but the highest multi-gpu solution.

Even the Crossfire offers some very impressive performance. No question dual X850XT in Crossfire is potent looking at the reviews, but thats not going to make it worth it.

It does offer some things also. It bring ATI to the table, and a different approach intially may turn into their favor in the end.

 

[Hacp]

Well, I think a GT sli rig makes more sense than a GTX. Most of the benchmarks running at resolutions that normal people play at have the GT SLI running neck and neck with the GTX sli, with the CPU being the limit in most cases.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Crossfire is best known as "Crapfire" or "Missfire". 16X12 at 60Hz, master/slave cards, dongles, and second tier ATI motherboards add up to Crossfire being DOA. Even a lot of the reviewers are saying they can't recommend it. A muchdifferent story than the original SLI reviews.

Alot of reviewers also say that even SLI is only recommended for the highest end, currently 7800GTX in SLI. If thats not your target right now, it seems it shouldn't be a consideration, and I'll agree.

As far as the second tier motherboards, I would like to see some reviews of other cards in Crossfire motherboards and see how they compare from a performance/feature standpoint as well.

Ok, but what about all those people who bought SLI boards and single 6800GT's/Ultra's?
Should they dump their 6800 and buy a single 7800GT/GTX? I'd call that a need for consideration right there. Reviewers don't know everything rb. Sometimes what they say, just doesn't apply to everybody's needs/situation. If the person can't afford a GTX but can afford another 6800GT, it's perfect. You get somewhere around 7800GTX performance and often better.

Crossfire seems a bit of a "caveman" approach. At least it would appear that way, I don't own it.

 

[justly]

Why are so many people quoting the rumor of 1600x1200@60MHz? Everyone seems to agree that there is a 1600x1200 limitation but every site I have seen has at least one game running faster than 60MHz at 1600x1200.

Am I missing something here, or are all these people quoting a 60MHz limitation just plain wrong?

 

[DidlySquat]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Crossfire is best known as "Crapfire" or "Missfire". 16X12 at 60Hz, master/slave cards, dongles, and second tier ATI motherboards add up to Crossfire being DOA. Even a lot of the reviewers are saying they can't recommend it. A muchdifferent story than the original SLI reviews.

Alot of reviewers also say that even SLI is only recommended for the highest end, currently 7800GTX in SLI. If thats not your target right now, it seems it shouldn't be a consideration, and I'll agree.

As far as the second tier motherboards, I would like to see some reviews of other cards in Crossfire motherboards and see how they compare from a performance/feature standpoint as well.

Of course SLI only makes sense for the absolute high end, and that was obvious from its begining. Only fools (some of them post here) invested in 6600GT and 6800NU SLI setups . Even the SLI upgrade path is largely a false promise because by the time you will want to upgrade it usually makes more sense to get a new card, although sometimes it could be a viable option. especially if you plan to add the 2nd card relatively soon, before your current card becomes totally absolete.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


I said heat definitely, stability remains to be seen, and power issues remains to be seen. Just to take your blinders off.
Yes, the R520 was designed for higher clockspeeds. Higher, not insane. ATI is really pushing it from what we all have read. Yes, you read it also.
I never ranted about heat and power issues and..... forget it. MORPH, now I know you are kidding.

From what we have read? Rumors you mean? The 9600 series had a very high clock rate, and low temps. Due to die shrink. At this point its foolish to believe it will be a lot hotter than any other video card.

Even if it is.. it exhausts the hot air out of the case. So Im not sure why it would even be a big issue, unless its very hot, say towards 100c at load. My 6800GT did 87c under load, and my GTX does close to that. I doubt the X1800XT will be much more than that.

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo
ATI gamers waited a year for this mess?

Try not to exaggerate so much to further your cause. SLI was reviewed 10 months ago, Crossfire wasnt announced until well after that. People havent been waiting for Crossfire for a year.

Errr, yeah, ten months is a "big" difference from a year. :roll:

SLI was a mess at launch too. SLI had its fair share of bugs, and has just now close to a year later finally matured. They did not have such a huge limitation as the 60hz though.

A. I had SLI soon after launch, and it kicked ass compared to this mess. I had no problems with it other than getting a couple games to work.
B. You're too kind- 16X12 is almost as big a set back as 60Hz.

Thats what SLI was reviewed last Sept, not that Crossfire was announced then. And even if you were correct. 2 months out of 12 months, is a big difference.. think percentages here.

A. Yes SLI didnt have such a huge limitation as this 60Hz crap. It still had many, many issues. Dont pretend it didnt. Its MUCH better now than it was.
B. When I said "huge limitation as the 60Hz", the 1600x1200 was implied with it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


I said heat definitely, stability remains to be seen, and power issues remains to be seen. Just to take your blinders off.
Yes, the R520 was designed for higher clockspeeds. Higher, not insane. ATI is really pushing it from what we all have read. Yes, you read it also.
I never ranted about heat and power issues and..... forget it. MORPH, now I know you are kidding.

From what we have read? Rumors you mean? The 9600 series had a very high clock rate, and low temps. Due to die shrink. At this point its foolish to believe it will be a lot hotter than any other video card.

Even if it is.. it exhausts the hot air out of the case. So Im not sure why it would even be a big issue, unless its very hot, say towards 100c at load. My 6800GT did 87c under load, and my GTX does close to that. I doubt the X1800XT will be much more than that.

AT posted the released clocks of the X1800XT at 600MHz, then after that guys Sander's article, there were rumors (yes rumors) of ATI shooting for higher than 600MHz.

The 9600 also had 4 pipes and 128MB 128-bit memory. Or the slower 256MB 128-bit mem. Die shrink to 130nm right? Well, I think that is a far cry (no pun) from a problematic shrink to a 90nm process with 16 pipelines and a transistor count of at least that of an R420, that has been known to plague AMD and Intel at first with massive current leakage. Kudos to ATI for taking the bull by the horns and shooting for 90nm, but they seem to have suffered from it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SolMiester

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SolMiester
Was that the Ti4600 or FX5xxx?, doesnt matter, I stand by what I said, ATI were the All in Wonder great video capture boys when Voodoo was around.Its only because Nvidia bought out Voodoo that ATI thought it would try its hand. I had no choice but to buy GF256 DDR after voodoo went down as ATI couldnt write fast driver code to save themselves. LOL.....

but Image Quality on the GF256 was crap compared to the Rage Fury . . .
[i had both]

by the time Radeon DDR was out, ati HW had nearly caught up with nVidia but their drivers didn't really improve until almost a year after the 8500 was released . .

when the 9700p came out, it blew away nVidia's offerings . . . for a couple of years . . . until the 6800 series

currently, ATI and nVidia are about equal in driver quality with ati releasing drivers more often

However Rage Fury didnt have NE where near the power of the GF's thought did it.....& you said right, ATI catch up, thats why I dont rate them....Crossfire is a SLI rip-off and they stuffed it up with resolution limitations! I just do see how they think ne1 will buy this product when a single card will do the job readily enough.

Rage Fury 32 was able to play the same games at the same playable resolutions as the GF . . . it's image quality was noticeably better even if it was ~10% slower [or so].

ati more than 'caught up' with nVidia beginning with the 9700p and continuing until the 6800 series was released . . . ati dominated and gained market share for 2 years . . . have you forgotten that nVidia was "runner up" while the 9700/9800 ruled?
:roll:

Xfire is in its infancy and i really think it will be at least competitive with SLI in its next form - with r580 . . . ati had to launch something . . . it's a decent start and has good [eventual] potential

 

[Ackmed]

You have a good counter point. Which is why I think its too early to be calling it a hot chip.

If they could clock it higher than 600, and keep it stable, why wouldnt they?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Only fools (some of them post here) invested in 6600GT and 6800NU SLI setups . Even the SLI upgrade path is largely a false promise because by the time you will want to upgrade it usually makes more sense to get a new card, although sometimes it could be a viable option. especially if you plan to add the 2nd card relatively soon, before your current card becomes totally absolete.

1. Don't confuse being a "fool" with "choosing to spend earned honestly on a hobby", DSquat.

2. It makes sense- my rig owned yours then (6800GT SLI) and my rig owns yours now (7800GTX SLI).

 

[Hacp]

Well, besides the fact that this is a crosfire thread, I think that a higher out the the box=bad for us. Why? Well we can overclock less. If we pay less for a lower clock, then overclock it higher, then we get more performance for out money. But if they run it at 625 instead of 600, that means if it does beat the GTX, we will pay the price premiumm for it.


If it doesn't beat the GTX at 600, we will pay less than the GTX hopefully, but if it does beat the GTX at 625, ATI will defenetly milk that fact and charge 850XTPE prices.

 

[rbV5]

Ok, but what about all those people who bought SLI boards and single 6800GT's/Ultra's?
Should they dump their 6800 and buy a single 7800GT/GTX? I'd call that a need for consideration right there. Reviewers don't know everything rb. Sometimes what they say, just doesn't apply to everybody's needs/situation. If the person can't afford a GTX but can afford another 6800GT, it's perfect. You get somewhere around 7800GTX performance and often better.

Crossfire seems a bit of a "caveman" approach. At least it would appear that way, I don't own it.

It might make sense, but you won't get any more for your 6800 cards than right now and you could get a decent offset for a 7800GTX, a 7800GT isn't a whole lot more than a 6800GT even right now, but with the right deal on your components, someone with most of the hardware already, does have options..that you are right about.

 

[DidlySquat]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: DidlySquat
Only fools (some of them post here) invested in 6600GT and 6800NU SLI setups . Even the SLI upgrade path is largely a false promise because by the time you will want to upgrade it usually makes more sense to get a new card, although sometimes it could be a viable option. especially if you plan to add the 2nd card relatively soon, before your current card becomes totally absolete.

1. Don't confuse being a "fool" with "choosing to spend earned honestly on a hobby", DSquat.

2. It makes sense- my rig owned yours then (6800GT SLI) and my rig owns yours now (7800GTX SLI).

you should feel proud to be one of a handful of people around the world that actually owned a 6800NU SLI setup. The others that had it were mostly reviewers which unanimously bashed it and said how much of a poor value it is (kind of like x-fire). I believe that at that time I already owned a 6800GT which owned your 6800NU SLI. Hope you had luck dumping it on ebay ?

 

[BFG10K]

Whoever made the decision to cap crossfire at 1600x1200@ 60 Hz should be fired.

 

[KeepItRed]

Originally posted by: Rollo
2. It makes sense- my rig owned yours then (6800GT SLI) and my rig owns yours now (7800GTX SLI).

Tell someone who cares please.

 

[rise]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Whoever made the decision to cap crossfire at 1600x1200@ 60 Hz should be fired.

should be horse whipped in front of all the other employees and then fired.

 

[Munky]

I agree with the ppl that said crossfire was a rushed job so far, and the main reason is because Nvidia designed the gf6 with SLI in mind, whereas Ati didnt design the x800's with the possibility of multi-gpu solutions. So, Ati just had to make compromises to slap on that ability onto the x800's.

The interesting part, however, is whether or not they'll remedy those problems with the r520, which they knew would be going against g70 SLI cards when they designed them. So, in theory, they could (and probably should) abandon the whole idea of the external dongle, master/slave cards, and maybe even make it work on any board with 2 pci-e slots, with or without an internal connector. That would most likely alleviate the present limitations of crossfire, and at the same time allow them to "invade" Nvidia's SLI market, if anyone with a dual pci-e board could have dual gpu's, even those boards that are not "officially" SLI-compatible (like mine for example).

As it stands right now, Crossfire is just in it's infancy, but it might develop into a technologically superior solution if Ati is willing to re-design it the way it should have been done from the start.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: M0RPH
SLI and Xfire are for a few uber-geeks who have a lot of cash to throw away. They just don't matter much.

People that have the best equipment "don't matter much"? Since when? :roll:

 

[SolMiester]

Apoppin, IMHO, ATI dominated nada, never has done, the 9xxx were a great card and eventually ATI got the drivers right. I maybe a fanboy if you want to call me that, but I have been buying video cards from the 1st Voodoo > SLI (V2) > GF series and then some (ATI). Name me 1 technology ATI bought out on its own which Nvidia hadnt already invented either on its own or through the Glide architechure?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: munky
I agree with the ppl that said crossfire was a rushed job so far, and the main reason is because Nvidia designed the gf6 with SLI in mind, whereas Ati didnt design the x800's with the possibility of multi-gpu solutions. So, Ati just had to make compromises to slap on that ability onto the x800's.

The interesting part, however, is whether or not they'll remedy those problems with the r520, which they knew would be going against g70 SLI cards when they designed them. So, in theory, they could (and probably should) abandon the whole idea of the external dongle, master/slave cards, and maybe even make it work on any board with 2 pci-e slots, with or without an internal connector. That would most likely alleviate the present limitations of crossfire, and at the same time allow them to "invade" Nvidia's SLI market, if anyone with a dual pci-e board could have dual gpu's, even those boards that are not "officially" SLI-compatible (like mine for example).

As it stands right now, Crossfire is just in it's infancy, but it might develop into a technologically superior solution if Ati is willing to re-design it the way it should have been done from the start.

This is all nice wishful thinking Munky, but I've seen rumors the Master/Slave carries on to the the R520, as does the dongle and the motherboard requirement. If they're true, ATI execs are going to wish they had dumped the other 60% of their stock.

Nobody believed me when I said ATI has always been a second/third best company, and that the only success they've had was due to the acquisition of ArtX. I've been a video card junkie for more than a decade, and for most of that ATI has been my "I'm buying this lesser hardware because it's interesting" company.

BTW- if you want to see some hilarious spin on this, head over to the Rage3d.com forums and check out the "Another triumph for ATI!" posts. Crossfire ended up looking like a high school science project and these guys are posting HL2 benches where it's ahead by two fps and shouting "Another glorious victory!" :roll: