Crossfire AFR profiles?

[Ronin]

Because I work with both companies?

You live in a dream world if you don't think that information doesn't pass between the two.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003



And your asking me because............?

Was your suggestion. I thought maybe you knew what you were writing about?

[/quote]

Was it really that hard to know what I meant? or shall we sit here and play dumb. How annoying.

[/quote]

Sorry, I assumed that you had something to say.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Ackmed
The bolded part can me a ton of different things. It could mean that the user would have to make one, or it could mean the drivers will use a app detecting profile and do it automatically.

I dont think most people have a problem with making a profile for SLI, just that it took NV several months to get something out to door for you to do it.

No, but thanks. It was there from the get go.

Drop the tude.

The ability to make profiles within the drivers, was not there from the get go. You had to script profiles, as the drivers had very few built in. Which is probably why profiles got a bad rap.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo
But will it be as good of a motherboard? ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets, no Crossfire. nVidia has sold 750,000 SLI chipsets, 24 million motherboard chipsets, and currently has a 55% market share for A64 motherboards. Add to that ATI doesn't even have a working Southbridge, is telling their OEMs to use it anyway, and the only alternative is lowly ULI? (used to be ALI, I had one of their chipsets- once, for about a month till I ditched it.

More misleading statements about ATI from Rollo.

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets, no Crossfire. nVidia has sold 750,000 SLI chipsets, 24 million motherboard chipsets

ATI has sold many times more motherboard chipsets than Nvidia. Nvidia is a relative newcomer to motherboard chipsets compared to ATI. You're referring to enthusiast chipsets.

And as far as trying to compare ATI and Nvidia enthusiast chipset sales, there's no direct correlation that can be inferred from sales numbers. Nvidia officially announced their nForce chipset at the 2001 Computex. That's four years ago! The Xpress 200 was released in November of last year, a mere 7 months ago. So how COULD it possibly catch up to years of Nvidia sales in only 7 months?

If the Xpress and nForce motherboards had been released around the same time then yes, sales figures would mean something. Your attempt to use it as some sort of proof that Nvidia is better is just plain wrong. And I don't think I need to comment on the current total number of CrossFire motherboards sold and why it's currently at 0.

Add to that ATI doesn't even have a working Southbridge, is telling their OEMs to use it anyway

Their SB has been reported as buggy, not non-functional. Whether the problem lies in the silicon or the drivers hasn't been revealed yet. Plus, boards are still in the pre-production phase so it's a bit premature to be condemning ATI on this issue.

and the only alternative is lowly ULI? (used to be ALI, I had one of their chipsets- once, for about a month till I ditched it.

Well, we're talking about ULi, not ALi. What would you have to say if somebody said they don't buy Nvidia products because they had a bad 3DFx experience? From what little I've read so far, the ULi seems to be attempting to offer high quality products with enthusiast features.

We took a look at a ULi Socket-939 PCI Express reference board while in Taiwan to see if what ULi was telling us happened to be true. Could ULi's chipsets offer performance close to that of NVIDIA, while also offering
stability at a price point lower than VIA's?

We ran a small suite of tests on ASUS' AN8-SLI Deluxe (nForce4 SLI) as well as ULi's Socket-939 PCI Express Reference Motherboard. The performance of the chipset was quite compelling; faster than the nForce4 in Doom 3, yet slower in the Winstone tests.

Overall performance was quite respectable, but most importantly was that we encountered no problems during our testing. Overclocking features were limited on the reference board, but we're hearing that ABIT has a board based on ULi's chipset that should offer some pretty good overclocking performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2434&p=2

Even in its current pre-production state, the ATI Crossfire is showing itself to be fast and stable. And its speed should only increase as BIOS, drivers and silicon revisions mature.

I say it's off to a very good start.

 

[Ronin]

Umm...so I'm confused.

How can you say that ATi has sold many times over nVidia's chipsets (motherboard wise), when they've only recently JUST got back into the game to begin with? Where are you basing your facts from?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003



And your asking me because............?

Was your suggestion. I thought maybe you knew what you were writing about?

Was it really that hard to know what I meant? or shall we sit here and play dumb. How annoying.

[/quote]

Sorry, I assumed that you had something to say.

[/quote]

That's ok brudda. Cause I did. Now go play psychologist all by your lonesome.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Rollo
But will it be as good of a motherboard? ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets, no Crossfire. nVidia has sold 750,000 SLI chipsets, 24 million motherboard chipsets, and currently has a 55% market share for A64 motherboards. Add to that ATI doesn't even have a working Southbridge, is telling their OEMs to use it anyway, and the only alternative is lowly ULI? (used to be ALI, I had one of their chipsets- once, for about a month till I ditched it.

More misleading statements about ATI from Rollo.

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets, no Crossfire. nVidia has sold 750,000 SLI chipsets, 24 million motherboard chipsets

ATI has sold many times more motherboard chipsets than Nvidia. Nvidia is a relative newcomer to motherboard chipsets compared to ATI. You're referring to enthusiast chipsets.

And as far as trying to compare ATI and Nvidia enthusiast chipset sales, there's no direct correlation that can be inferred from sales numbers. Nvidia officially announced their nForce chipset at the 2001 Computex. That's four years ago! The Xpress 200 was released in November of last year, a mere 7 months ago. So how COULD it possibly catch up to years of Nvidia sales in only 7 months?

If the Xpress and nForce motherboards had been released around the same time then yes, sales figures would mean something. Your attempt to use it as some sort of proof that Nvidia is better is just plain wrong. And I don't think I need to comment on the current total number of CrossFire motherboards sold and why it's currently at 0.

Add to that ATI doesn't even have a working Southbridge, is telling their OEMs to use it anyway

Their SB has been reported as buggy, not non-functional. Whether the problem lies in the silicon or the drivers hasn't been revealed yet. Plus, boards are still in the pre-production phase so it's a bit premature to be condemning ATI on this issue.

and the only alternative is lowly ULI? (used to be ALI, I had one of their chipsets- once, for about a month till I ditched it.

Well, we're talking about ULi, not ALi. What would you have to say if somebody said they don't buy Nvidia products because they had a bad 3DFx experience? From what little I've read so far, the ULi seems to be attempting to offer high quality products with enthusiast features.

We took a look at a ULi Socket-939 PCI Express reference board while in Taiwan to see if what ULi was telling us happened to be true. Could ULi's chipsets offer performance close to that of NVIDIA, while also offering
stability at a price point lower than VIA's?

We ran a small suite of tests on ASUS' AN8-SLI Deluxe (nForce4 SLI) as well as ULi's Socket-939 PCI Express Reference Motherboard. The performance of the chipset was quite compelling; faster than the nForce4 in Doom 3, yet slower in the Winstone tests.

Overall performance was quite respectable, but most importantly was that we encountered no problems during our testing. Overclocking features were limited on the reference board, but we're hearing that ABIT has a board based on ULi's chipset that should offer some pretty good overclocking performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2434&p=2

Even in its current pre-production state, the ATI Crossfire is showing itself to be fast and stable. And its speed should only increase as BIOS, drivers and silicon revisions mature.

I say it's off to a very good start.

Hey Creig, where do I get me one of dem dere pikket sines?
Seriously, I think your mixing things up a bit.

 

[Creig]

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Hey Creig, where do I get me one of dem dere pikket sines?
Seriously, I think your mixing things up a bit.

You'll have to be a bit more specific. I covered a few different points there and your dazzling response is a bit... well, vague.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

I think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the samples don't work.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: Creig

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

Yes, ATi has been producing chipsets for a while now, but not as long as nVidia has (ATi's first full motherboard chipset - not just GPU integrated into a northbridge luanched well after nForce1 did).

However, NOBODY of any importance has ever bought any significant quantity of these chipsets. I have yet to personally see a motherboard with an ATi chipset. It's pretty telling that even OEM's like Compaq/HP and IBM still prefer SiS (which is hardly a stellar chipset) to anything ATi offers. Compaq did offer nForce1 & nForce2 based systems however.

 

[vision33r]

Yes ATI has been making chipsets for laptops but their mainboard chipset are not popular with enthusiats. You find them in many HTPC or all in one micro-ATX mobos and laptops.

They truth is ATI chipset suck and no website is going to tell you they are great. I have laptops with the ATI 320IGP and they are slow in I/O, disk, and video.

Yes, its only been recent that Nvidia has been making chipsets and gaining wider acceptance by using the enthusiat road and now making more mobile chipsets.

I like the competition atleast both companies are doing a good job than Intel.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Hey Creig, where do I get me one of dem dere pikket sines?
Seriously, I think your mixing things up a bit.

You'll have to be a bit more specific. I covered a few different points there and your dazzling response is a bit... well, vague.

Not in the mood to dazzle a dude with a tude.

I think Gstanfor says it well however.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

I think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the samples don't work.

They work, they are just buggy. Which is to be expected. Claiming they dont work, is another lie.

 

[Gstanfor]

I'm sure given enough time the southbridge will "work", just like VIA and ALi's early AGP used to "work".

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

I think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the samples don't work.

They work, they are just buggy. Which is to be expected. Claiming they dont work, is another lie.

Ackmed I think you should buy one of these at launch and do a big review so we can see how well they work!

That would be great, you'd really put me in my place, and I sort of like the idea of you with a Crossfire motherboard, ATI chipset.

So I fully expect you to put your money where your mouth is and get one of these great new ATI motherboards you've been defending. I was an early SLI adopter and bought three sets of cards.

I assume you'll buy at least one set of Crossfire and let us know how it works for you, as you seem to think it's such great stuff!

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig

ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets

ATI has been making OEM and laptop chipsets for quite a number of years now, haven't they? The Radeon 320, 340, 7000, 9100. Just because they're only now making enthusiast chipsets (Xpress 200 and Crossfire) doesn't mean they haven't been making others. I'm still looking for the link, but I remember reading that in overall chipset sales, ATI was leading over Nvidia.

I think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the samples don't work.

They work, they are just buggy. Which is to be expected. Claiming they dont work, is another lie.

Ackmed I think you should buy one of these at launch and do a big review so we can see how well they work!

That would be great, you'd really put me in my place, and I sort of like the idea of you with a Crossfire motherboard, ATI chipset.

So I fully expect you to put your money where your mouth is and get one of these great new ATI motherboards you've been defending. I was an early SLI adopter and bought three sets of cards.

I assume you'll buy at least one set of Crossfire and let us know how it works for you, as you seem to think it's such great stuff!

blah blah blah.

Once again, you cant admit you made a mistake. You said they dont work, I said that they do, and are buggy right now. Just as the NV chipsets were upon release. Saying that the "samples don't work", is a flat out lie. Thats not defending the mobo, its setting you straight.

I doubt I will be buying one, because I dont intend on going with Crossfire, unless I find a really good deal on a master card. As the 7800 and R520 are rumored to be out in July, and faster than SLI and Crossfire.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
blah blah blah.

Once again, you cant admit you made a mistake. You said they dont work, I said that they do, and are buggy right now. Just as the NV chipsets were upon release. Saying that the "samples don't work", is a flat out lie. Thats not defending the mobo, its setting you straight.

I doubt I will be buying one, because I dont intend on going with Crossfire, unless I find a really good deal on a master card. As the 7800 and R520 are rumored to be out in July, and faster than SLI and Crossfire.

Blah blah blah is right. As usual, you choose to argue semantics and pointlessly try to pick fault with the specificity of my language instead of actually buy/use/report on the hardware like I do.

Hey Ackmed, if you think my language is such a big deal, you better PM Anand and Derek about how they are lying as well, as they said the same thing I did???

Can I get a "p3wned"?

Although, we do think that it is a bit embarrassing to have to turn to another chipset vendor to provide working South Bridges for your motherboard partners. It would be one thing if this were ATI's first chipset, but it most definitely is not.

and

Note that ATI's own South Bridge does not support SATA-II or NCQ, regardless of actual bugs with the chip.

LOL, you see Ackie, I was just lead astray by our host saying ATIs chipset doesn't "work".

You probably know better than Anand and Derek though right? They've only used the hardware, but you know it must be better than they say!

 

[Ackmed]

Wow, "p3nwed"? That isnt, and never was cool to say.

"not working", is false, and you know it. Obviously it was working, or else the PC wouldnt have been running. They did not say the ATi chipset didnt work. If you can find quote saying that the "chipset did not work", then you would have an agrument. They have bugs. Same as any new hardware. My A8N was pretty buggy upon release, and some features didnt work properly. You dont hear me saying how the whole mobo didnt work. You going around saying over and over again that the ATi chipsets "do not work", is false. Admit it or not, you know its true. If you cant even admit that, then there is really no point in even discussing it further, as you have your head in the sand.

Even if they really didnt work, what would it matter? They are not for sale yet.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Wow, "p3nwed"? That isnt, and never was cool to say.

"not working", is false, and you know it. Obviously it was working, or else the PC wouldnt have been running. They did not say the ATi chipset didnt work. If you can find quote saying that the "chipset did not work", then you would have an agrument. They have bugs. Same as any new hardware. My A8N was pretty buggy upon release, and some features didnt work properly. You dont hear me saying how the whole mobo didnt work. You going around saying over and over again that the ATi chipsets "do not work", is false. Admit it or not, you know its true. If you cant even admit that, then there is really no point in even discussing it further, as you have your head in the sand.

Even if they really didnt work, what would it matter? They are not for sale yet.

LOL- OK, you got me Ackmed:

I hereby re-phrase my statement

think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the samples don't work

TO:

think the larger issue here is they haven't made any chipsets of this sort for retail sale, and what we know so far is the SATA II and NCQ are not available, and the Southbridge is too buggy to be released at present. ATI has been forced to use low end ULI on their demo boards, but still strongly encourages OEMs to use their SATAII-less, NCQ-less, buggy Southbridge chipset nonetheless. Ackmed feels this is reason for confidence in ATIs great new product!"

LOL

 

[Creig]

Rollo, you claim that you have nothing at all against ATI, but yet you pounce on every opportunity to bad mouth them.

What's with this personal anti-ATI cruade of yours? Did one of the current ATI board members beat you up when you were a kid or something?

Video card preference is fine, but you seem to have some sort of scary obsession thing going.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig
Rollo, you claim that you have nothing at all against ATI, but yet you pounce on every opportunity to bad mouth them.

What's with this personal anti-ATI cruade of yours? Did one of the current ATI board members beat you up when you were a kid or something?

Video card preference is fine, but you seem to have some sort of scary obsession thing going.

:roll:

Creig, we've been led to believe that Crossfire works "with all games" not just "a couple of profiles".

You may not think it's worth knowing that it essentially works the same as SLI with profiles, but people considering buying it should have an accurate picture of what they're waiting for.

If you are considering Crossfire, and don't care if it uses profiles or not, you don't have to read the thread? I didn't PM you and say, "Hey Creig, follow the link to my thread about Crossfire! It appears to work pretty much the same as SLI in regard to profiles, contrary to assertions of "Catalyst AI"!" did I?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig
Rollo, you claim that you have nothing at all against ATI, but yet you pounce on every opportunity to bad mouth them.

What's with this personal anti-ATI cruade of yours? Did one of the current ATI board members beat you up when you were a kid or something?

Video card preference is fine, but you seem to have some sort of scary obsession thing going.

:roll:

Creig, we've been led to believe that Crossfire works "with all games" not just "a couple of profiles".

You may not think it's worth knowing that it essentially works the same as SLI with profiles, but people considering buying it should have an accurate picture of what they're waiting for.

If you are considering Crossfire, and don't care if it uses profiles or not, you don't have to read the thread? I didn't PM you and say, "Hey Creig, follow the link to my thread about Crossfire! It appears to work pretty much the same as SLI in regard to profiles, contrary to assertions of "Catalyst AI"!" did I?

Yes, I'm also disappointed that Crossfire is now said to required profiles. I'm also disappointed that it requires an external dongle and doesn't communicate solely through the PCI-E port as it was originally intended to. But to me, that simply puts the Crossfire platform and SLI on roughly equal footing. If ATI had managed to implement Crossfire as originally announced, I would have said it would have been superior to SLI.

And since when have you EVER painted an "accurate picture" of ATI products?!? All you do is loudly complain about how inferior they are to Nvidia and that the company is nothing but a cesspool of lies and corruption.

As far as "follow the link to my thread about Crossfire", I simply posted in the thread that happened to have the most posts on the subject. You'll notice that I never ONCE posted in your many "Rollo benchmarks XXXX" and "Rollo benchmarks YYYY" threads.

But back to my original question. Why do you take every opportunity you can to badmouth ATI products? It seems to border on compulsive obsessive behavior.

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: Creig
Yes, I'm also disappointed that Crossfire is now said to required profiles. I'm also disappointed that it requires an external dongle and doesn't communicate solely through the PCI-E port as it was originally intended to. But to me, that simply puts the Crossfire platform and SLI on roughly equal footing. If ATI had managed to implement Crossfire as originally announced, I would have said it would have been superior to SLI.

Whoa there!! Can you point us to the official statement from ATi that Crossfire was originally intended to use PCIe for communication and without profiles?

Actually, expecting it not to use profiles is very stupid in the first place. How else would the driver know which mode is best for each title? There can always be default fallbacks but for highest performance and compatiblity you would need profiles. If you filter out the uneducated fanb0y nonsense this much would be obvious.

I believe the argument was that Crossfire does not require profiles for operation. Which is true. It has default settings based on the title's API but that gives no guarantee of improved performance and may well have compatibility issues. ATi would be stupid to use this very simple fallback mechanism to go up against Nvidia's tuned profile system.

 

[Ronin]

trini, it was stated in several locations, actually (just as supposedly they were to have a motherboard solution to the dongle/bridge). ATi marketing at work. Both companies are guilty of it, but ATi kept maintaining how they were going to do this and that better than nVidia, because nVidia did it wrong, when it turns out they actually did it right (otherwise, ATi wouldn't have followed an almost identical pattern, save the Crossfire configuration).