Crossfire AFR profiles?

[nRollo]

http://www.techreport.com/etc/2005q2/ati-crossfire/index.x?pg=1

After talking to ATI's Catalyst driver team, we learned that although CrossFire's Direct3D and OpenGL defaults allow it to accelerate any application, the drivers will also ship with application-specific profiles. These profiles generally use Alternate Frame Rendering, which apparently offers better performance than superTiling or scissor modes. However, AFR apparently can't be blindly enabled without the danger of causing display corruption or stability problems, so scissor and supertiling modes provide good fallback positions for games that lack AFR profiles.

So much for "Catalyst AI" making on the fly evaluations of what works best with games- the only difference between this and SLI is that SLIs default fall back for a non profiled game is single card, Crossfire has tiling for D3d or Scissors for OpenGL. (BTW- you can set the default mode for SLI with Coolbits enabled as well)

What about ATIs scissor mode? I've heard that it's not the same as SLIs-

The ATI SFR mode can split the frame horizontally or vertically but it is not dynamic. In other words, ATI drivers predetermine the split. On SLI, we can dynamically shift the split to even out the balance in real-time based on varying dynamic workload across both SLI cards.

I got this info directly from nVidia, so I have no link.

In any case, I find it amusing that ATI is trying to lead us to believe their is some behind the scenes evaluation of each game going on, where it's really just a. looking for a profile b. if not finding one defaulting to tile or scissors based on whether the app is OpenGL or D3d. (bear in mind defaulting to a mode doesn't guarantee it offers benefit or works well)

 

[Genx87]

After reading Anands article it was obvious their method was at best on par with Nvidias and maybe even worse in some areas(like a 1997 style external connector).

 

[rise]

imo, amr is just a stop gap. they had to get something to market. how it truly performs will be interesting to see but everyday they had nothing was just more people buying sli rigs, dual cards or not. i saw that nv says 750,000 sli adopters already or something.

 

[Todd33]

*gasp* Rollo finds dirt on ATI.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: Todd33
*gasp* Rollo finds dirt on ATI.

*gasp* someone personally attacks Rollo.

I'm surprised it took as long as 3 replies.

On to the actual post.... I think it's too early to compare the way in which each company handle the multi-card setup. I don't care if they do it different or the exact same as nV. All that matters is how it performs and how much it costs.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Todd33
*gasp* Rollo finds dirt on ATI.

Whatever bias or slant aside, it is interesting to hear a bit more about how CrossFire really works. Plus, I think Rollo has right to mention the app profiling in CrossFire, since he took a lot of grief from fanATIcs over SLI's profiling and how much more superior CrossFire (AMR) would be when it came out.

There are still a number of people touting the superiority of CrossFire, when the results just aren't in. The way I see it, if CrossFire really did have something really big on SLI, it would have been leaked by someone at Computex. If ATI could produce benchmarks that stomped a dual Ultra SLI rig at high settings/resolutions, don't you think they would? From what I've seen, CrossFire is just ATI's attempt to keep up with nVidia. I'm not at all saying it's worse (it may even be slightly better), but I don't think that it will be considered superior to SLI by any measure when it actually comes out.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo


I got this info directly from nVidia, so I have no link.

Maybe you are asking the wrong company?

 

[Ronin]

Maybe it's the only company he can ask?

I'll make a call to ATi today, and see if I can get more information than I did at E3.

 

[RussianSensation]

I think both companies have a workable solution. However, given that ATi supports higher anti-aliasing modes, 4 monitors (and up to 6 with an intergrated graphics card and 2 xfire cards), offers an option of combining cards without having to worry about same model number or BIOS, will provide a motherboard which will cost close to nforce 4 ultra, has an overall slight advantage in games -- this makes crossfire very appealing. However, it is too late to compare 2 6800U/GT to 2 X8xx anything. We should wait for G70/R520 roundup before deciding what's better.

Either way both companies should allow the user to have the option to use Nvidia cards in an ATI chipset and ATI cards in an Nvidia chipset. Otherwise you end up being stuck with 1 name brand until a new motherboard (if you decide to go dual).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ronin
Maybe it's the only company he can ask?

I'll make a call to ATi today, and see if I can get more information than I did at E3.

QFT
I'd call ATI, but I think they would trace the call and send the Mounties after me after the last year of me stating the R420 is dated!

I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
will provide a motherboard which will cost close to nforce 4 ultra,

But will it be as good of a motherboard? ATI has sold ~200,000 non Crossfire motherboard chipsets, no Crossfire. nVidia has sold 750,000 SLI chipsets, 24 million motherboard chipsets, and currently has a 55% market share for A64 motherboards. Add to that ATI doesn't even have a working Southbridge, is telling their OEMs to use it anyway, and the only alternative is lowly ULI? (used to be ALI, I had one of their chipsets- once, for about a month till I ditched it.

We should wait for G70/R520 roundup before deciding what's better.

G70s launch 6/21 according to Gamespot, R520 is MIA......

Either way both companies should allow the user to have the option to use Nvidia cards in an ATI chipset and ATI cards in an Nvidia chipset. Otherwise you end up being stuck with 1 name brand until a new motherboard (if you decide to go dual).

I doubt you'll see that, but time will tell.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

 

[MegaWorks]

Thx Rollo, you convinced me to get Crossfire over SLI. :thumbsup:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: MegaWorks
Thx Rollo, you convinced me to get Crossfire over SLI. :thumbsup:

LOL, somehow I believe that you think that hurt his feelings? Just keep turning that knife. You probably won't get the Crossfire setup before Rollo does I'll tell you right now....

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

What is it with you Shroom guys? All seem to be in dire need of sandblaster enemas.

 

[jasonja]

I'm certain your source at nVidia must know all about how CrossFire works! I'm sure ATI was kind enough to send them their first demo system for them to check out.

It clearly states in the TechReport review that the scissor mode can dynamically adjust the split point on the fly as workloads change. Why in the hell do you believe your nVidia source and choose not to believe TechReport or ATI? Do you think your source won't be biased?

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

What is it with you Shroom guys? All seem to be in dire need of sandblaster enemas.

Are they effective?

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: jasonja
I'm certain your source at nVidia must know all about how CrossFire works! I'm sure ATI was kind enough to send them their first demo system for them to check out.

It clearly states in the TechReport review that the scissor mode can dynamically adjust the split point on the fly as workloads change. Why in the hell do you believe your nVidia source and choose not to believe TechReport or ATI? Do you think your source won't be biased?

See, what you don't know is that both companies share a lot more information with each other than you'd think.

I think you'd be mildly surprised about what each knows about the other.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

What is it with you Shroom guys? All seem to be in dire need of sandblaster enemas.

Are they effective?

And your asking me because............?

 

[Ackmed]

The bolded part can me a ton of different things. It could mean that the user would have to make one, or it could mean the drivers will use a app detecting profile and do it automatically.

I dont think most people have a problem with making a profile for SLI, just that it took NV several months to get something out to door for you to do it.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

What is it with you Shroom guys? All seem to be in dire need of sandblaster enemas.

Are they effective?

And your asking me because............?

Was your suggestion. I thought maybe you knew what you were writing about?

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
The bolded part can me a ton of different things. It could mean that the user would have to make one, or it could mean the drivers will use a app detecting profile and do it automatically.

I dont think most people have a problem with making a profile for SLI, just that it took NV several months to get something out to door for you to do it.

No, but thanks. It was there from the get go.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Rollo


I just thought people might be interested as the whole "profile" issue has been a source of confusion with Crossfire.

And you thought a little fud from Nvidia would clear up the issue? Personally I think xfire is almost as big a dud as sli - so fight for those sales boys.

What is it with you Shroom guys? All seem to be in dire need of sandblaster enemas.

Are they effective?

And your asking me because............?

Was your suggestion. I thought maybe you knew what you were writing about?

Was it really that hard to know what I meant? or shall we sit here and play dumb. How annoying.

 

[Keysplayr]

Thanks for the info Ronin.

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: jasonja
I'm certain your source at nVidia must know all about how CrossFire works! I'm sure ATI was kind enough to send them their first demo system for them to check out.

It clearly states in the TechReport review that the scissor mode can dynamically adjust the split point on the fly as workloads change. Why in the hell do you believe your nVidia source and choose not to believe TechReport or ATI? Do you think your source won't be biased?

See, what you don't know is that both companies share a lot more information with each other than you'd think.

I think you'd be mildly surprised about what each knows about the other.

How do you know this?
I think you're wrong. They are strict competitors and they don't "share" information about their competing techologies or buisness plans. The only info they know about each other comes 2nd hand from outside sources that both have in common (fabs, board vendors, etc).