Critique this system

[MojoKrunch]

This is what I've decided on so far.
To save cost I'm combining a DAW and 3d/graphics/gaming computer.
I'll dual boot the 2 Raptors... one will be DAW only (WinXP Pro on both) while the other is 3d/graphics/video games sharing the dual 250's for storage.
The Koolance case fans are controllable as is the PSU fan so I'm thinking I can slow them down enough for quiet audio recording.
The Acoustipack and fan/HD isolators should take care of any extraneous sound/vibrations.
And the Koolance rig should keep everything cool.

My only real question now is do I need PC4200 RAM(where is the point of diminishing returns for speed versus cost?) or can I get by with PC3200 without losing performance?

I might overclock if I can get it to run cool enough without having to run the fans too high...IOW, if I can't slow the fans and have it run stable, I won't OC.

Motherboard:
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum/SLI $172
(is there still an issue with populating all RAM slots with DIMMs?)

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Socket 939 Retail box $245.00

RAM:
OCZ EL 1GB PC4200 Enhanced Latency Platinum Edition Dual Channel $368.00
(maybe PC3200, but 2x1GB sticks instead of 2x512MB sticks so I can up it to 4GB in the future?)

Video Card:
BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC PCI-E $530.00(will SLI sometimes in the near future with second BFG card)

Sound Card:
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS at some point in the future if necessary... will try to run the built-in Live! audio on the MB for gaming first.
The DAW OS will have this disabled and the 3D OS will have the EMu disabled.

Case:
Koolance PC2-C $199
(Combo with CPU-300-H06 waterblock, video waterblock, MB cooler kit and Antec TrueControl550 PS $406)
Hard drive coolers for the Raptors?

Power Supply:
Antec 550W TrueControl PSU $100.00

AcoustiPack $80

Hard drives:
2x WD Raptor 74GB x 2 $177.00 ea

2x WD2500JD 250GB $115

DVD-RW: Black Lite-On SOHW-1633S $60

Various fan/hard drive isolators, lights and stuff $50

Nexus 120mm case fan if needed. $20

DAW hardware:
EmulatorX Studio Sampler with 1820M $600
Behringer B2031A Truth Active Monitors $300
Sony MDR-7506 Studio Headphones $90
Shure SM57 & SM58 $180

Future planned pickups: either Behringer UB2442FX Pro 24 or DDX3216 Digital Mixer, Presonus Eureka mic preamp/compressor, Akai MPD16 USB MIDI Pad Control Surface, Behringer ADA8000, and either a Rode or Neumann high-end condenser mic.

I've got a Radium 49 keyboard to go with my guitars, a Digitech GNX-3 preamp pedalboard and an Oktava MK-319 mic.
I'll be running Cubase SX 3, Reason 2.5/3 and Audition 1.5 to go with as many softsynths as I can pick up.

Can I make this work?

 

[nick1985]

looks like a rig that could be made for about $300-$400 less with no performance loss, no offense.

 

[MojoKrunch]

No offense taken.
Could you be more specific?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

You should be able to shave some cost off by getting some cheaper ram (check out the memory matrix thing)

Maybe cut back the video card a little as getting the bleeding edge is kinda silly

I'm not really sure why you need two raptors for what you're doing instead of two partitions...

 

[wisdomtooth]

MojoKrunch:

It seems to me you need a very quiet computer.

Yet your components are going to be noisy for sure.

For one thing, that Antec TrueControl PSU has TWO 80mm eggbeater fans. Very poor choice for a quiet PC. You want a Seasonic S12 500W instead, which has one slow-spinning 120mm fan, which moves as much air as the two 80mm fans in the Antec but does it at lower RPMs and decibels. Acousticpack will do absolutely NOTHING for noisy PSUs.

You will still get noises from the water pump for the CPU waterblock. That AMD64 CPU is not all that difficult to cool-- Just the Zalman CNPS7000 will do.

Raptors are some of the noisier HDs around, and the dampening mounts will NOT eliminate motor whine. You want Samsung Spinpoints with the Nidec motors.

The stock cooling fan on that 6800 is going to be noisy. You might want to look into getting a Zalman VF700 or Arctic Silencer for it.

I would use acoustipack only as a last resort-- They are too good at trapping heat.

HTH.

 

[MojoKrunch]

(check out the memory matrix thing)

Where would that be?
I'd really like to see something more concrete on the price/performance for RAM.
Is there much drop off between PC3200 and PC4200?

Regardless of the harddrives I end up with I'm going to split up the OSs to their own hard drive.
Thanks.

 

[MojoKrunch]

It seems to me you need a very quiet computer.
Yet your components are going to be noisy for sure.

Well, what I need is a quiet computer with some serious horsepower.
And I'm trying to balance the performance with the quiet.

For one thing, that Antec TrueControl PSU has TWO 80mm eggbeater fans. Very poor choice for a quiet PC.

I thought I read that the fans were speed controable... Can I refit a 120 into it?

You want a Seasonic S12 500W instead, which has one slow-spinning 120mm fan, which moves as much air as the two 80mm fans in the Antec but does it at lower RPMs and decibels.

Yea, I looked at the Seasonics and I was going to use the Antec Phantom 350 in a Sonata case but I wasn't convinced there would be enough power for 2 6800s and 4 hard drives.
I really liked the stability of the TrueControl, however.
Are the Seasonics as stable?

Acousticpack will do absolutely NOTHING for noisy PSUs.

This is true.
But I figured I could use all the help I could get in that Koolance case.

You will still get noises from the water pump for the CPU waterblock. That AMD64 CPU is not all that difficult to cool-- Just the Zalman CNPS7000 will do.

Yea, the Zalman 7700 with a 120mm Nexus fan was on my shortlist before I thought about water cooling.
Are the pumps really that loud?

Raptors are some of the noisier HDs around, and the dampening mounts will NOT eliminate motor whine. You want Samsung Spinpoints with the Nidec motors.

Will the Samsungs give me the same kind of performance?
And just how loud are Raptors? Would the Acoustipack not help with HD noise?

The stock cooling fan on that 6800 is going to be noisy. You might want to look into getting a Zalman VF700 or Arctic Silencer for it.

The plan was to water cool it in the Koolance case.
But getting something quieter if I go with the Sonanta case is doable.
Are there lower profile fans that I can use when I SLI?
Just read up on the VF700 and it says the adjacent PCI slot becomes unusable when installed.

I would use acoustipack only as a last resort-- They are too good at trapping heat.

I'd heard that, but figured with the Koolance I could water cool everything, including the Raptors, so it wouldn't be so much of an issue.

If I go air-cooled with the Sonata case I'll leave the Acousticpack as a last resort.

Is any hard drive comparable to the Raptor for performance?

Thanks

 

[wisdomtooth]

On the PSU: The Seasonic is one of the most efficient PSUs out there and should handle SLI no problems, nevermind single vid card systems. Mine holds its voltages very steady.

On water cooling: I have a 60-gallon tropical fish aquarium and the water pump gives off a quite-noticible whir as well as a constant electrical buzz. I don't know how much water the Koolance pumps are supposed to move, but there will be noise.

On the HDs: The Samsungs are 7200rpm drives, so no, they won't give you the same kind of performance as the Raptors. Perhaps there the performance might be worth the noise tradeoff. I don't like using acoustipak with Raptors because they do get rather hot at their much faster rotation rates.

I just finished building a DAW for a friend of mine-- She's using the Digidesign M-Box system with hers. It's air-cooled with the components I mentioned and very quiet, though admittedly she does not game.

HTH.

 

[necine]

Sony MDR-7506 Studio Headphones

Get Sennheiser HD-212

 

[classy]

You could lose one raptor, I also see no need for a Koolance case, you need only one gig of ram and there are better choices cheaper, I would rethink that system seriously if I were you especially if your going to overclock.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: MojoKrunch

(check out the memory matrix thing)

Where would that be?
I'd really like to see something more concrete on the price/performance for RAM.
Is there much drop off between PC3200 and PC4200?

Regardless of the harddrives I end up with I'm going to split up the OSs to their own hard drive.
Thanks.

memory matrix

 

[akugami]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-148-066&depa=1
Seagate 200GB HD for about $140. Can't go wrong with them, quieter than the Raptors and while slower it won't be a big dropoff in performance. 5 year warranty on this HD as well so you are protected for a long while. There's also larger sized ones but considering the 200GB ones are already almost 3x the size of the Raptors you should be fine with a pair of these. If you need more space for about $210 you can get 300GB versions of these HD's as well.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-045&depa=1
Patriot Extreme Performance RAM 1GB sticks at $190. Pick up two of these and you will have 2GB of very good RAM at the same price of the RAM you were going to get. There isn't going to be much of a difference in performance between this and the RAM you chose originally.

The NEC 3520A dual layer burner is a good one and will run in the $60-70 range. I have bought four of them for use in various systems and they work great. They can be a little noisy when they first spin up reading a CD or DVD but that shouldn't be a problem for your use. They're really quiet most of the time.

 

[MojoKrunch]

Ok... Rev2.

Motherboard:
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum/SLI $167

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Socket 939 Retail box $267

CPU Cooler:
Zalman CNPS7700-CU(120mm) $36

RAM:
pqi TURBO Series Platinum Kit 184-Pin 2GB(1GB x 2) DDR PC-3200
Cas Latency: 3-4-4-8 $327

Video Card:
BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC PCI-E $515.00

Video cooling fan:
Arctic NV Silencer 5 (Rev. 2) $28

Hard drives:
2 x WD Raptor 74GB $165

2 x Seagate 250GB SATA $139

DVD-RW:
Black Lite-On SOHW-1633S $60
or NEC 3520A $55

Case:
Antec Sonata LifeStyle Series ATX Midsize Tower Case $85

Power Supply:
Seasonic S12 500W $140

AcoustiPack deluxe V2(if necessary) $80

Nexus fan 120mm $18

APC 1100 Pro AVR $125

Fan and hard drive isolators parts, SATA cables, round cables, lights: $150

TOTAL: $2600

Can I do better than the BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC PCI-E price/performance wise?
I love my other BFG cards and don't they have a lifetime warrenty?
I definitely want to SLI in the near future.

Anyone know if the Arctic Silencers takes up too much space for SLI?
Zalmans VF700 even says it takes up the next slot over so thats out.

Is the Sonata case worth getting?
Is there a better quiet case option?

And which DVD burner is best... Lite-On or NEC?

I think I like the Seagates as storage drives and I'm definitely sticking with 2 Raptors.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[wisdomtooth]

I think you are on your way to quite a quiet system, even with the Raptors and the 6800.

With the two 120mm exhaust fans (the 120mm in the Sonata and the 120mm in the Seasonic), you have the optimal setup for pulling all the hot air from your components out of the case. The only thing left that you might want to do is put that 120mm case fan on a fan controller to make sure it runs at just 1000rpms or so to keep it nice and quiet. (I remember that on the few Sonatas I've seen in the past, the 120mm case fan uses a 4-pin plug. In which case, you can do the 5v or 7v mod to keep it spinning slow too).

There are two PCI Express 1x slots between the two PCI Express 16x/8x slots for the vid cards, so there's room for the Arctic NV Silencer. Unless you need to use the PCIe 1x slots for something (are there even any useful PCI 1x cards out there??), you should be OK. And when you SLI, you will have to give up one more regular PCI32 slot next to the second vid card for another vid card cooler there. As long as you plan ahead in regard to what kind of PCI cards you will be using, you should be all set.

Good luck!

 

[classy]

Better. I still see no need for two Raptors. Also unless you plan on using SLI I would maybe take just the straight MSI Ultra board. Now if your going to lose SLI, the money you would save from losing one Raptor and switching to just the Ultra could be put the money towards a faster cpu, 4000+ retail is $545 over at zip. And remember if you buy everything from the net shop around.

I just seen the 2 gigs of ram, no need for 2 gigs. Get the PDP 3200xbl 1 gig or the Crucial Ballistix 1 gig and save the moola or as I stated before buy a faster cpu, unless you're going to overclock .

 

[wisdomtooth]

For DAW stuff, he can definitely use 2GB... My friend mixes tracks using her DigiDesign M-Box and Protools, and that thing HOGS memory.

Definitely 2GBs or more for DAW.

 

[MojoKrunch]

Guys,
Yea, the 2GB RAM will come in handy for 3d rendering as well as DAW... it was too good a price to pass up after checking out the memory matrix thread and akugami's reccomendation.
Yes, there will be SLI in the near future... maybe even with the first round of building given how much I've lowered the cost.
The only other card in the MB will be the EMu card so that shouldn't be a problem... looks like the Arctic Silencers are the answer.
Need to add fan-controller to the mix... any reccomendations?
So is it worth it to get the BFGs or should I look at another manufacturer or non-ultra/non-OC?

Thanks

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: MojoKrunch
Ok... Rev2.

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Socket 939 Retail box $267

CPU Cooler:
Zalman CNPS7700-CU(120mm) $36

Good choice on the Zalman to cool the CPU. I see an opportunity for you to shave some more $ off the total price of the system. Since you're going this route you should by the OEM version of the processor instead. It's the same processor as the retail version only it doesn't come with a heatsink and fan (you're not going to use it anyway) and it's priced less.

 

[Icepick]

Originally posted by: MojoKrunch

Need to add fan-controller to the mix... any reccomendations?

Thanks

I own a Coolermaster Aerogate II and use it to monitor temps and control the fan on the motherboard's chipset. It gets the job done and it looks beautiful.

Originally posted by: MojoKrunch

Video Card:
BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC PCI-E $515.00

Video cooling fan:
Arctic NV Silencer 5 (Rev. 2) $28

Can I do better than the BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra OC PCI-E price/performance wise?
I love my other BFG cards and don't they have a lifetime warrenty?
I definitely want to SLI in the near future.

If you plan to use the NV Silencer you might want to tone down your video card to the 6800 GT model. The reason is that the Ultra has a PCI slot plate that takes up two slots. This is going to get in the way of the NV Silencer since it's designed to vent out the second PCI slot. Maybe someone who has installed an NV Silencer on a 6800 Ultra can correct me if I'm wrong but, it will be a PITA to get that PCI plate cut down or replaced with one that only takes up one slot.

IMO, all the 6800 Ultras perform close to the same for price/performance. The slight overclock on the BFG card doesn't separate it from the competition that much. I'd recommend you buy whichever brand is least expensive.

 

[Duvie]

I agree the orig ram was ridiculous...however getting shithole cas 3 stuff at pc3200 no less....

You idiots reading that matrix thing do not know how to read and analyse data...cas tioming does make a difference and potentially big...Look at how the lower pc3000 stuff at cas 2 increases over same speed at cas 3....Look at his pc3800 with a grain of salt as I haven't seen much do cas 2.5,2,2,x at that level...but again pc3000 is closer to the pc4700 stuff (in non sandra BS) then the pc3000 at cas 3 is in most instances...


I say get ram that will do cas 2 timings at 400ddr and you can have performance as good as 500ddr at cas 2.5.....If you can get cas 2,2,2,6 timings you can have performance very close or equal to 533ddr at cas 2.5.....


2gb will help in 3d rendering, but not as much as you think...I do a lot and my need is just about getting there and I am probably fine until the next OS comes out and needs more ram.....


Also if Zebo had done the 32mb test of superpi you will see how bandwidth and lower latency drastically help that test...1mb is too short to see anything...

 

[MojoKrunch]

Duvie
Now that you've vented your spleen over the RAM, have you got any specific reccomendations?

Thanks

 

[MojoKrunch]

Icepik
I'll look into the 6800GTs... I suspect you are correct about the fan/slots issue and I want to avoid having to cut up anything.
So will any brand 6800 GT do?
Any recs, anyone?

You're right about the OEM cpu, I think that was just an editing mistake from an earlier list.
Thanks.

 

[Duvie]

IN your revised list you are paying about 160 plus per each set for cas 3....Can I ask wher are you looking?? Cause newegg has the cas 2 stuff along with some good mushkin and corsair stuif in the 180 range per GB....Their cas 2.5 PQI stuff is down in the 150's per GB...

Since I know NE isnt the cheapest at pretty much anything anymore I would say it coul dbe possibly had for even cheaper...

 

[MojoKrunch]

Duvie

Can I ask wher are you looking??

That came from NewEgg.

Since I'm not sure the MSI MB will post with all 4 slots filled(HardOCP review) and I planned on getting 2 GB RAM at some point anyway, (and since it didn't look like there was much difference between the PC3200 and PC4200 performance from reading that matrix post)I figured I'd get 2 GB now instead of later on in a 2x1GB kit.

If I know for sure the MB will post with all slots filled then I would go with 4x512 sticks, no problem.

I looked on NewEgg and didn't find any 2GB sets lower than cas3.

Let's say I want to spend no more than $400 on either 2x1GB sticks or 4x512MB sticks.
What should I get?
And where should I get it from?
Thanks.

 

[wisdomtooth]

Originally posted by: icepik
If you plan to use the NV Silencer you might want to tone down your video card to the 6800 GT model. The reason is that the Ultra has a PCI slot plate that takes up two slots. This is going to get in the way of the NV Silencer since it's designed to vent out the second PCI slot. Maybe someone who has installed an NV Silencer on a 6800 Ultra can correct me if I'm wrong but, it will be a PITA to get that PCI plate cut down or replaced with one that only takes up one slot.

I think I remember hearing someone mention that the Rev.2 version of the NV5 Silencer actually comes with a replacement bracket for those who has the 6800 with the stock double-slot bracket.

Meanwhile, this is what I found at the Arctic Cooling site FAQ:

The exhaust from the cooler is blocked by the two-slot back plate of my original 6800 card. How can I make your cooler compatible to this card?
We do have a replacement bracket for the 6800 series to solve the double bracket issue. Please request for such a bracket from your local dealer.