Critique my routine

[halik]

Edit:
Came up with a new one, let's see what you think. Also is it better to do all off one muscle group at a time before moving onto the other in one day? Or should I mix and match to get more recovery time?

DAY 1: Chest and Biceps
Incline dumbell press (3 stf)
Chest Pullovers (3 stf)
DB Flies (3 stf)
Cable Crossover(2s12r)
Standing Barbell curls (3stf)
Dumbbell Hammers (3stf)
Reverse Barbell curls (3stf)
Excecise Ball Crunk (3stf)

DAY 2: Legs
Leg press (4 snf)
Leg extensions (3 stf)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 stf)
Leg curls (3 stf)
Calf raises (3stf)
Hanging Leg raises (3stf)

DAY 3: Back and Rear delts
Deadlift (3 stf)
Lateral Pulldown (3 stf)
Seated Row (3 sft)
Seated Lateral Raises (3stf)
Shrugs (3stf)
Incline Weighted cunches (3stf)

DAY 4: Shoulders and Triceps
Military press (2stf)
Arnold press (2stf)
Side laterals (3stf)
Front laterals (3stf)
Close Grip Bench(3snf)
Skullcrushers (3stf)
Dips (3stf)
Oblique crunches (4s12)

 

[KoolDrew]

Squat, Bench, Deadlift, OH Press, Row, Chins.

Repeat often.

 

[halik]

I think ill go with the Dorian Yates routine

 

[KoolDrew]

You don't have the genetics or the drugs Dorian Yates had. So what makes you think you should train like him? Concentrate on getting stronger on basic compound movements with a few isolation movements thrown in 3x a week. If you wish to do 4x a week, two should be upper body and two should be lower.

EDIT - The routine you outlined in the OP is just plain awful, no offense. Doing that many movements per bodypart, 3-4 sets to failure, and working out 4 days out of the week is a a great way to burnout very very quickly. It's WAY too much volume, and going to failure that often on purpose is never a good idea.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to use routines by pro bodybuilders and don't use a routine you made yourself.

How much do you squat? Bench? Deadlift?

 

[brikis98]

what are your goals? height? weight? weight lifting experience & numbers?

you're going to hear a similar answer from a lot of people on this forum:

1. Don't make up your own weight lifting routine. 9 times out of 10, you'll pick inefficient exercises, inappropriate # of sets and reps and focus way too much on your "beach muscles".

2. Instead, depending on your goals, use a program developed by professionals. For example, if you're a beginner, do Starting Strength or (the very similar) Stronglifts 5x5. If you're an intermediate, try something like the Bill Starr 5x5. If you're a body builder, try something like HST. If you're an athlete, fighter, soldier or just interested in broad, general, real-life fitness at a ridiculous level, try Crossfit.

3. Whatever routine you decide on, make sure you know who the target audience is. Most body building routines (e.g. the Dorian Yates thing you posted) are NOT for beginners and often rely on ridiculous diets, ridiculous genetics and, more often than not, various drugs. Without them, the routines are extremely ineffective. Even the ones I posted above have target audiences - Starting Strength and its linear progression might not work well for someone who has been lifting (properly) for several years. Crossfit, on the other hand, while scalable to any level, is a whole lot easier to do after a year or more of a Starting Strength style routine which teaches you (and adapts your body to) all the basic exercises.

4. Pick a diet that corresponds to your goals and matches the workout routine.

 

[gramboh]

That routine is insane unless you are already very advanced in your training. Crazy high volume and number of isolation exercises.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
You don't have the genetics or the drugs Dorian Yates had. So what makes you think you should train like him? Concentrate on getting stronger on basic compound movements with a few isolation movements thrown in 3x a week. If you wish to do 4x a week, two should be upper body and two should be lower.

EDIT - The routine you outlined in the OP is just plain awful, no offense. Doing that many movements per bodypart, 3-4 sets to failure, and working out 4 days out of the week is a a great way to burnout very very quickly. It's WAY too much volume, and going to failure that often on purpose is never a good idea.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to use routines by pro bodybuilders and don't use a routine you made yourself.

How much do you squat? Bench? Deadlift?

I think you missed the original edit - HIT has worked great for me in the past and I want to continue doing split day HIT.

I'm 6ft 175 when lifting earlier in the year I was doing sets of : 210lb incline dumbbell bench, 100lb scull crushers, 90-95lbs preacher curls and somewhere near 200 lbs lateral pull downs.

Going to failure almost every time is the basic premise of HIT. In the past I've used compound movements till failure (6-8 reps) and then isolation to overfail. The routine is for every other or every third day, depending on how I recover. It's a basic muscle group split with compounds and then isolations.

The volume does seem to be little high for HIT though, I think I'll knock the islation sets down a bit:
DAY 1: Chest and Biceps
Incline dumbell press (3 stf)
Chest Pullovers (2 stf)
DB Flies (2 stf)
Cable Crossover(2s12r)
Standing Barbell curls (3stf)
Dumbbell Hammers (2stf)
Reverse Barbell curls (2stf)
Excecise Ball Crunk (3stf)

DAY 2: Legs
Leg press (4 snf)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 stf)
Leg extensions (2 stf)
Leg curls (2 stf)
Calf raises (3stf)
Hanging Leg raises (3s)

DAY 3: Back and Rear delts
Deadlift (3 stf)
Lateral Pulldown (3 stf)
Seated Row (3 sft)
Seated Lateral Raises (2stf)
Shrugs (2stf)
Incline Weighted cunches (3stf)

DAY 4: Shoulders and Triceps
Military press (2stf)
Arnold press (2stf)
Side laterals (2stf)
Front laterals (2stf)
Close Grip Bench(3snf)
Skullcrushers (2stf)
Dips (3s)
Oblique crunches (4s12)

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: halik
Edit:
Came up with a new one, let's see what you think. Also is it better to do all off one muscle group at a time before moving onto the other in one day? Or should I mix and match to get more recovery time?

DAY 1: Chest and Biceps
Incline dumbell press (3 stf)
Chest Pullovers (3 stf)
DB Flies (3 stf)
Cable Crossover(2s12r)
Standing Barbell curls (3stf)
Dumbbell Hammers (3stf)
Reverse Barbell curls (3stf)
Excecise Ball Crunk (3stf)

DAY 2: Legs
Leg press (4 snf)
Leg extensions (3 stf)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 stf)
Leg curls (3 stf)
Calf raises (3stf)
Hanging Leg raises (3stf)

DAY 3: Back and Rear delts
Deadlift (3 stf)
Lateral Pulldown (3 stf)
Seated Row (3 sft)
Seated Lateral Raises (3stf)
Shrugs (3stf)
Incline Weighted cunches (3stf)

DAY 4: Shoulders and Triceps
Military press (2stf)
Arnold press (2stf)
Side laterals (3stf)
Front laterals (3stf)
Close Grip Bench(3snf)
Skullcrushers (3stf)
Dips (3stf)
Oblique crunches (4s12)

I'd combine my my triceps routine with my chest days and my shoulders and bicep routines with my back days as you are basically using those those same muscle groups and I would do abs on my leg days for 3 days of weight training using the other two days for cardio and rest for two days. I would also reduce the number of exerices I do for each muscle group.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: halik
Edit:
Came up with a new one, let's see what you think. Also is it better to do all off one muscle group at a time before moving onto the other in one day? Or should I mix and match to get more recovery time?

DAY 1: Chest and Biceps
Incline dumbell press (3 stf)
Chest Pullovers (3 stf)
DB Flies (3 stf)
Cable Crossover(2s12r)
Standing Barbell curls (3stf)
Dumbbell Hammers (3stf)
Reverse Barbell curls (3stf)
Excecise Ball Crunk (3stf)

DAY 2: Legs
Leg press (4 snf)
Leg extensions (3 stf)
Stiff leg deadlift (3 stf)
Leg curls (3 stf)
Calf raises (3stf)
Hanging Leg raises (3stf)

DAY 3: Back and Rear delts
Deadlift (3 stf)
Lateral Pulldown (3 stf)
Seated Row (3 sft)
Seated Lateral Raises (3stf)
Shrugs (3stf)
Incline Weighted cunches (3stf)

DAY 4: Shoulders and Triceps
Military press (2stf)
Arnold press (2stf)
Side laterals (3stf)
Front laterals (3stf)
Close Grip Bench(3snf)
Skullcrushers (3stf)
Dips (3stf)
Oblique crunches (4s12)

I'd combine my my triceps routine with my chest days and my shoulders and bicep routines with my back days as you are basically using those those same muscle groups and I would do abs on my leg days for 3 days of weight training using the other two days for cardio and rest for two days. I would also reduce the number of exerices I do for each muscle group.

Good point, Actually I'm gonna switch Day 3 with Day 4, so I'm not hitting triceps back to back (shoulders and tri to chest) - I don't mind hitting them on two separate days, but just nowhere near together.

The abs work as is - my stomach is pretty well developed. It's heavy day followed by a light day followed by a heavy day etc.

 

[spamsk8r]

No program is complete without squats. Period. They are the most basic exercise you can do, and the one most likely to give you good results. I'm going to side with KoolDrew here and tell you that this program will a) burn you out b) not be particularly effective in increasing strength and c) leave you horribly unbalanced due to lack of real core exercises like the squat. If you can't squat 1.5x your bodyweight, get on a beginner's program like Stronglifts or Starting Strength. Trust me, they work, and very well I might add.

 

[scootermaster]

Originally posted by: spamsk8r
No program is complete without squats. Period. They are the most basic exercise you can do, and the one most likely to give you good results. I'm going to side with KoolDrew here and tell you that this program will a) burn you out b) not be particularly effective in increasing strength and c) leave you horribly unbalanced due to lack of real core exercises like the squat. If you can't squat 1.5x your bodyweight, get on a beginner's program like Stronglifts or Starting Strength. Trust me, they work, and very well I might add.

Now, see, here's the problem...(and keep in mind I'm saying this as I'm on starting strength, and I have no complaints so far).

This sort of thinking is just as dumb as the "curls will give me big gunz!" thinking.

I know TONS of people with much more ripped bodies, and who are much stronger than you, than me or that most people who post here who can't or won't do squats.

So there's no "period" about it.

In fact, in something with as many variables as weight lifting, there's really no "period" about ANYTHING. There's best guess, and "this seems to work", but there's NO "period". Now, having said that, are squats the king of all exercises? Of course. No one's arguing that. Does doing them at a high weight trigger neurological shit that's great for building muscle? Of course. Are you a weak little retard monkey-boy if you don't do them? No.

Period.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: scootermaster
Now, see, here's the problem...(and keep in mind I'm saying this as I'm on starting strength, and I have no complaints so far).

This sort of thinking is just as dumb as the "curls will give me big gunz!" thinking.

I know TONS of people with much more ripped bodies, and who are much stronger than you, than me or that most people who post here who can't or won't do squats.

So there's no "period" about it.

In fact, in something with as many variables as weight lifting, there's really no "period" about ANYTHING. There's best guess, and "this seems to work", but there's NO "period". Now, having said that, are squats the king of all exercises? Of course. No one's arguing that. Does doing them at a high weight trigger neurological shit that's great for building muscle? Of course. Are you a weak little retard monkey-boy if you don't do them? No.

Period.

I definitely see where you are coming from (especially since you do SS yourself), but I think your logic is a little faulty. The fact that you know people stronger or more ripped than you who don't squat doesn't give us ANY information about whether the squat is a good or not. For example, it is quite possible that IF those same people did squat, they'd be even stronger and more ripped. And yes, when it comes to weight lifting - or, more accurately, when you are dealing with something as complex as the human body - there are very few rules that are "set in stone". But, we can still make very good rules of thumb and come up with rules that (statistically) work for the VAST majority of people. As much as halik may think he is a unique and special snowflake and the basic rules of biology and exercise don't apply to him, it is EXTREMELY likely that he is wrong

So how does this all apply to the squat? Well, if you are physically able to squat - that is, you do not have any pre-existing injuries or conditions that prevent you from doing so - then it really should be part of your workout routine. Can you still be successful without it? Sure. But chances are VERY good that you will be even more successful with it. To put it another way, the op is clearly looking for comments on his routine, which means he is trying to optimize it, and adding heavy squatting would make his routine MUCH more efficient. He can drop the leg press, leg extensions and anything else machine-based and replace it with the squat and I would wager good money, that if he squats heavy with proper form, he'll make MUCH better progress.

The squat is the king of exercises for a reason and if you can physically do it, it would be very foolish not to.

 

[KoolDrew]

Why did you even post this topic if you're not going to listen to the advice given? The routine you posted sucks, plain and simple. Either listen to me or don't. I really couldn't care less. I'll just say the routine you posted is probably one of the worst routines I've ever seen, and that's putting it nicely. There is absolutely no advantage to going to failure, at that point you're only adding to CNS fatigue, burning you out very quickly. Going to failure is bad enough, but with that many movements it just adds to its awfulness.

It's always mind boggling when people ask for advice on a routine, but then think they know everything to make an "awesome" routine on their own and it turns out to be complete shit.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Why did you even post this topic if you're not going to listen to the advice given? The routine you posted sucks, plain and simple. Either listen to me or don't. I really couldn't care less. I'll just say the routine you posted is probably one of the worst routines I've ever seen, and that's putting it nicely. There is absolutely no advantage to going to failure, at that point you're only adding to CNS fatigue, burning you out very quickly. Going to failure is bad enough, but with that many movements it just adds to its awfulness.

It's always mind boggling when people ask for advice on a routine, but then think they know everything to make an "awesome" routine on their own and it turns out to be complete shit.

Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Why did you even post this topic if you're not going to listen to the advice given? The routine you posted sucks, plain and simple. Either listen to me or don't. I really couldn't care less. I'll just say the routine you posted is probably one of the worst routines I've ever seen, and that's putting it nicely. There is absolutely no advantage to going to failure, at that point you're only adding to CNS fatigue, burning you out very quickly. Going to failure is bad enough, but with that many movements it just adds to its awfulness.

It's always mind boggling when people ask for advice on a routine, but then think they know everything to make an "awesome" routine on their own and it turns out to be complete shit.

Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

Going to failure quickens the development of central nervous system fatigue. Trust me, I've done it. It's not fun and you feel like crap. The only solution is taking time off.

What are your goals though? Are you looking to actually be in good shape (strength and cardio) or are you looking to SEEM like you're in good shape. There is definitely a difference in training. The program you've posted will give you big muscles and some strength, no doubt, however I'd be surprised if you could use that strength and weight in a manner that was actually beneficial to your overall fitness.

I say if you can't use it efficiently for survival situations, you're doing it wrong.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Why did you even post this topic if you're not going to listen to the advice given? The routine you posted sucks, plain and simple. Either listen to me or don't. I really couldn't care less. I'll just say the routine you posted is probably one of the worst routines I've ever seen, and that's putting it nicely. There is absolutely no advantage to going to failure, at that point you're only adding to CNS fatigue, burning you out very quickly. Going to failure is bad enough, but with that many movements it just adds to its awfulness.

It's always mind boggling when people ask for advice on a routine, but then think they know everything to make an "awesome" routine on their own and it turns out to be complete shit.

Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

Going to failure quickens the development of central nervous system fatigue. Trust me, I've done it. It's not fun and you feel like crap. The only solution is taking time off.

What are your goals though? Are you looking to actually be in good shape (strength and cardio) or are you looking to SEEM like you're in good shape. There is definitely a difference in training. The program you've posted will give you big muscles and some strength, no doubt, however I'd be surprised if you could use that strength and weight in a manner that was actually beneficial to your overall fitness.

I say if you can't use it efficiently for survival situations, you're doing it wrong.

Gain strength and more importantly muscular weight is the main goal. I'm not a professional athlete nor am I Bear Grills and I do cardio on the side, but the main goal is muscular mass.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: halik
Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

Who are you getting these opinions from? And are you are reading them very carefully? The main principles of HIT, as far as I understand it, are that "exercise should be brief, infrequent, and intense." 4 times a week, 6-8 exercises per day, 2-3 sets of each to failure is ANYTHING but brief and infrequent. And that much load will also prevent you from keeping the intensity high. Most (respectable) HIT routines I've seen do 1 or 2 sets MAX per body part per workout and usually not to failure, but 8-12 reps. The HST routine is a good example of this.

Originally posted by: halik
I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

You should certainly check your sources and get as many opinions as possible, but if you are just going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you and just write it up as "I don't know who you are", why even post on a message board? You also completely ignored my post (including the questions I pose in it), you have not explained your goals, you didn't actually answer KoolDrew's questions (what you squat, deadlift, etc) and have ignored anything that even remotely conflicts with your "knowledge" of weight lifting. How are we supposed to help you? And remember, just because your form of HIT may have "worked" for you, doesn't mean that other approaches wouldn't do even better.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Why did you even post this topic if you're not going to listen to the advice given? The routine you posted sucks, plain and simple. Either listen to me or don't. I really couldn't care less. I'll just say the routine you posted is probably one of the worst routines I've ever seen, and that's putting it nicely. There is absolutely no advantage to going to failure, at that point you're only adding to CNS fatigue, burning you out very quickly. Going to failure is bad enough, but with that many movements it just adds to its awfulness.

It's always mind boggling when people ask for advice on a routine, but then think they know everything to make an "awesome" routine on their own and it turns out to be complete shit.

Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

Going to failure quickens the development of central nervous system fatigue. Trust me, I've done it. It's not fun and you feel like crap. The only solution is taking time off.

What are your goals though? Are you looking to actually be in good shape (strength and cardio) or are you looking to SEEM like you're in good shape. There is definitely a difference in training. The program you've posted will give you big muscles and some strength, no doubt, however I'd be surprised if you could use that strength and weight in a manner that was actually beneficial to your overall fitness.

I say if you can't use it efficiently for survival situations, you're doing it wrong.

Gain strength and more importantly muscular weight is the main goal. I'm not a professional athlete nor am I Bear Grills and I do cardio on the side, but the main goal is muscular mass.

Well, isn't the whole point of exercising being more fit - fitness being stronger, faster, better. I know many people do this to look good, but realize how good they feel when they get in better shape. You may want to rethink the vanity of why you're doing this and look toward the future. Be fit, not just muscular. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to better yourself in as many areas as possible if you're putting in the work.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: halik
Well because I'm looking for a multitude of opinions and good amount of them suggest that going to to failure will promote hypertrophy. Thus the whole H.I.T. philosophy.

Who are you getting these opinions from? And are you are reading them very carefully? The main principles of HIT, as far as I understand it, are that "exercise should be brief, infrequent, and intense." 4 times a week, 6-8 exercises per day, 2-3 sets of each to failure is ANYTHING but brief and infrequent. And that much load will also prevent you from keeping the intensity high. Most (respectable) HIT routines I've seen do 1 or 2 sets MAX per body part per workout and usually not to failure, but 8-12 reps. The HST routine is a good example of this.

Originally posted by: halik
I have no idea who you are / how big you are/ what are you credentials, so I really have no reason to listen to *you* in particular... I've used HIT before with similar routine and great results (incline bench went from 170 to 210 in 5 months etc.) Argue about the split or volume, not whether you think HIT will work for me.

You should certainly check your sources and get as many opinions as possible, but if you are just going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you and just write it up as "I don't know who you are", why even post on a message board? You also completely ignored my post (including the questions I pose in it), you have not explained your goals, you didn't actually answer KoolDrew's questions (what you squat, deadlift, etc) and have ignored anything that even remotely conflicts with your "knowledge" of weight lifting. How are we supposed to help you? And remember, just because your form of HIT may have "worked" for you, doesn't mean that other approaches wouldn't do even better.

I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the maxot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

I do take an issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: halik
I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the max-ot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

Max-ot, as far as I know, is not exactly the same as HIT. A quick google search turns up the following principles for max-ot:

1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes. ---> I'd be surprised if you could get that routine done this quickly
2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.
3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group. ---> You're definitely on the upper end of this
4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set. ---> If you are going to failure, you're doing it wrong
5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets.
6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days.
7. Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

So, you're not following HIT and you're not following Max-ot either. Now, you said you got this routine from bodybuilding.com. Do you have a link to this 4 day split? How much of this routine did you add and how much was there already? Who wrote it?

Originally posted by: halik
I do take up and issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

I agree that it sucks to be told "you're wrong, stupid, this is the worst thing I've ever seen". It's a bit harsh and it's hard to let go of something you've believed for a long time. However, there are many reasons to believe that the routine you posted really is very ineffective. In fact, you may find that most bodybuilding routines - without absolutely ridiculous genetics, diet and drugs - are inefficient choices, even when the goal is muscle hypertrophy. That doesn't mean they don't do anything, it just means they are less effective than the alternatives, such as the routines I posted before.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: halik
I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the max-ot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

Max-ot, as far as I know, is not exactly the same as HIT. A quick google search turns up the following principles for max-ot:

1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes. ---> I'd be surprised if you could get that routine done this quickly
2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.
3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group. ---> You're definitely on the upper end of this
4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set. ---> If you are going to failure, you're doing it wrong
5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets.
6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days.
7. Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

So, you're not following HIT and you're not following Max-ot either. Now, you said you got this routine from bodybuilding.com. Do you have a link to this 4 day split? How much of this routine did you add and how much was there already? Who wrote it?

Originally posted by: halik
I do take up and issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

I agree that it sucks to be told "you're wrong, stupid, this is the worst thing I've ever seen". It's a bit harsh and it's hard to let go of something you've believed for a long time. However, there are many reasons to believe that the routine you posted really is very ineffective. In fact, you may find that most bodybuilding routines - without absolutely ridiculous genetics, diet and drugs - are inefficient choices, even when the goal is muscle hypertrophy. That doesn't mean they don't do anything, it just means they are less effective than the alternatives, such as the routines I posted before.

I screwed up on the link, here's the whole spiel max-ot. I was under the impression that MaxOT is a version of HIT (low reps, heavy load)

The way it's supposed to work is that you're at the point of failure around 6 reps; you're supposed to use weight heavy enough that you can only do some 6 reps. I

I may have to cut some exercises out and/or alternate if it takes too long to get them all done, but I'm fairly sure I can squeeze it all in within an hour.

I've tried the whole body workout and volume training and it doesn't do anything for me - with the OT I've gained 15lbs in 6 months.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: halik
I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the max-ot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

Max-ot, as far as I know, is not exactly the same as HIT. A quick google search turns up the following principles for max-ot:

1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes. ---> I'd be surprised if you could get that routine done this quickly
2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.
3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group. ---> You're definitely on the upper end of this
4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set. ---> If you are going to failure, you're doing it wrong
5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets.
6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days.
7. Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

So, you're not following HIT and you're not following Max-ot either. Now, you said you got this routine from bodybuilding.com. Do you have a link to this 4 day split? How much of this routine did you add and how much was there already? Who wrote it?

Originally posted by: halik
I do take up and issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

I agree that it sucks to be told "you're wrong, stupid, this is the worst thing I've ever seen". It's a bit harsh and it's hard to let go of something you've believed for a long time. However, there are many reasons to believe that the routine you posted really is very ineffective. In fact, you may find that most bodybuilding routines - without absolutely ridiculous genetics, diet and drugs - are inefficient choices, even when the goal is muscle hypertrophy. That doesn't mean they don't do anything, it just means they are less effective than the alternatives, such as the routines I posted before.

I screwed up on the link, here's the whole spiel max-ot. I was under the impression that MaxOT is a version of HIT (low reps, heavy load)

The way it's supposed to work is that you're at the point of failure around 6 reps; you're supposed to use weight heavy enough that you can only do some 6 reps. I

I may have to cut some exercises out and/or alternate if it takes too long to get them all done, but I'm fairly sure I can squeeze it all in within an hour.

I've tried the whole body workout and volume training and it doesn't do anything for me - with the OT I've gained 15lbs in 6 months.

I did the Max-OT program when I got CNS fatigue. My results were 20 pounds in 10-12 weeks. I also ended up with a shoulder injury because the program is so hard on the joints. From experience, I'd say find a better program that doesn't make you go to failure. It has really screwed me up and probably ruined any continued track career I could've possibly had.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: halik
I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the max-ot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

Max-ot, as far as I know, is not exactly the same as HIT. A quick google search turns up the following principles for max-ot:

1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes. ---> I'd be surprised if you could get that routine done this quickly
2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.
3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group. ---> You're definitely on the upper end of this
4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set. ---> If you are going to failure, you're doing it wrong
5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets.
6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days.
7. Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

So, you're not following HIT and you're not following Max-ot either. Now, you said you got this routine from bodybuilding.com. Do you have a link to this 4 day split? How much of this routine did you add and how much was there already? Who wrote it?

Originally posted by: halik
I do take up and issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

I agree that it sucks to be told "you're wrong, stupid, this is the worst thing I've ever seen". It's a bit harsh and it's hard to let go of something you've believed for a long time. However, there are many reasons to believe that the routine you posted really is very ineffective. In fact, you may find that most bodybuilding routines - without absolutely ridiculous genetics, diet and drugs - are inefficient choices, even when the goal is muscle hypertrophy. That doesn't mean they don't do anything, it just means they are less effective than the alternatives, such as the routines I posted before.

I screwed up on the link, here's the whole spiel max-ot. I was under the impression that MaxOT is a version of HIT (low reps, heavy load)

The way it's supposed to work is that you're at the point of failure around 6 reps; you're supposed to use weight heavy enough that you can only do some 6 reps. I

I may have to cut some exercises out and/or alternate if it takes too long to get them all done, but I'm fairly sure I can squeeze it all in within an hour.

I've tried the whole body workout and volume training and it doesn't do anything for me - with the OT I've gained 15lbs in 6 months.

I did the Max-OT program when I got CNS fatigue. My results were 20 pounds in 10-12 weeks. I also ended up with a shoulder injury because the program is so hard on the joints. From experience, I'd say find a better program that doesn't make you go to failure. It has really screwed me up and probably ruined any continued track career I could've possibly had.

Yeah that's a big con with all these high-load excercises - to be honest I steer clear or squats and barbell bench presses for that reason. The former bruises the shit out of my spine and the latter kills my shoulders.

Leg press and incline dumbbell bench don't cause me any discomfort though, I'm guessing because there's less room to have bad form (?)

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: halik
I got the basic 4-day group split from bodybuilding.com and plugged in compound and iso movements from their regular 4day routine. I tend to stick to the max-ot way of doing things (6-9 sets total per muscle group, failing near 6-8 reps) and space out a lot for recovery. The routine is NOT hit the gym 4 times in a week, it's a 4 part split with one or two day spaces.

Max-ot, as far as I know, is not exactly the same as HIT. A quick google search turns up the following principles for max-ot:

1. Each workout should last approximately 30 to 40 minutes. ---> I'd be surprised if you could get that routine done this quickly
2. Train only 1 or 2 muscle groups per workout/day.
3. Do 6 to 9 total heavy sets per muscle group. ---> You're definitely on the upper end of this
4. Do 4 to 6 reps per set. ---> If you are going to failure, you're doing it wrong
5. Rest 2 to 3 minutes between sets.
6. Train each muscle group once every 5 to 7 days.
7. Take a 1 week break from training every 8 to 10 weeks.

So, you're not following HIT and you're not following Max-ot either. Now, you said you got this routine from bodybuilding.com. Do you have a link to this 4 day split? How much of this routine did you add and how much was there already? Who wrote it?

Originally posted by: halik
I do take up and issue with responses as "you don't listen, this is what you need to be doing" from unknown sources, especially they sound like armchair quarterbacks. The whole routine came from max-ot and bodybuilding.com and saying "that's the worst I've ever seen" only makes you sound like a 140lb kid with men's health subscription.

I agree that it sucks to be told "you're wrong, stupid, this is the worst thing I've ever seen". It's a bit harsh and it's hard to let go of something you've believed for a long time. However, there are many reasons to believe that the routine you posted really is very ineffective. In fact, you may find that most bodybuilding routines - without absolutely ridiculous genetics, diet and drugs - are inefficient choices, even when the goal is muscle hypertrophy. That doesn't mean they don't do anything, it just means they are less effective than the alternatives, such as the routines I posted before.

I screwed up on the link, here's the whole spiel max-ot. I was under the impression that MaxOT is a version of HIT (low reps, heavy load)

The way it's supposed to work is that you're at the point of failure around 6 reps; you're supposed to use weight heavy enough that you can only do some 6 reps. I

I may have to cut some exercises out and/or alternate if it takes too long to get them all done, but I'm fairly sure I can squeeze it all in within an hour.

I've tried the whole body workout and volume training and it doesn't do anything for me - with the OT I've gained 15lbs in 6 months.

I did the Max-OT program when I got CNS fatigue. My results were 20 pounds in 10-12 weeks. I also ended up with a shoulder injury because the program is so hard on the joints. From experience, I'd say find a better program that doesn't make you go to failure. It has really screwed me up and probably ruined any continued track career I could've possibly had.

Yeah that's a big con with all these high-load excercises - to be honest I steer clear or squats and barbell bench presses for that reason. The former bruises the shit out of my spine and the latter kills my shoulders.

Leg press and incline dumbbell bench don't cause me any discomfort though, I'm guessing because there's less room to have bad form (?)

Well, I can understand BB bench, but squats I'm confused at. You know there is more than one way to hold the bar while squatting, right? Front squats, high bar back squats, low bar back squats. Try the low bar back squats and see if you can find the Starting Strength article on how to properly activate your pecs to avoid injury during bench. If you can get perfect form and you know your limits, you will be perfectly ok. My shoulder wasn't fantastic before this, but it didn't help. Just look into some other programs maybe. Try to optimize form and minimize injury.

EDIT: High and low bar placement for squats

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: KoolDrew
Squat, Bench, Deadlift, OH Press, Row, Chins.

Repeat often.