Crime down in Detroit (because police have basically stopped arresting)

[Paddington]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: n yusef
Are you really blaming Detroit on liberalism? Just about every big city is populated and run by lefties. Detroit has specific problems unrelated to the political ideology of its leaders.

Yes it has problems that are specific to Detroit, but you can't give liberalism a pass.

No doubt the anti-business attitude that runs through-out liberalism is contributing to Detroit's continuing problems.

ney york city, chicago and san fransico are all very liberal and progressive cities, yet they are all among the most important cities in the world for global business

so much for that line of thinking


I hear lubbock is thriving

New York was a basket case until a Republican mayor took over...

Well the problem is though that places like New York City, San Francisco, and to a lesser extent Chicago have certain natural advantages for which people are willing to put up with the hassles of red tape and high taxes in order to do business there. Detroit is cold with bland geography. Who wants to deal with its living wage laws, ultra-millitant trade unionism, high taxes, red tape, "hire Detroit blacks" mandates, graft paid to the council, etc. and many, many other hassles when you could go to Dallas, TX and deal with far fewer of those hassles? Or hell, even in Michigan, things go a lot more smoothly in pro-business Grand Rapids/Western MI area.

And I say this as a resident of the "fly over" country, and in fact of the greater Detroit region. Unless you have those certain unique advantages, nobody gives a shit if you're Ft. Wayne, El Paso, Wichita, or Fargo. They go for cheap costs. In Detroit, not only do you have the obvious high taxes, high wages, but you also have the red tape, trade unionism, tricky racial politics, and numerous other hassles that would make you absolutely crazy to do business there, unless the government were giving you a huge tax break. Whatever businesses remain in downtown Detroit are there because of the confluence of the expressways there and/or generous incentives from Michigan or the Federal government. GM is the only automaker actually based in Detroit. Most of the Detroit area factories are in the suburbs. If you look at population, out of ~4.5 million in metro Detroit, maybe 900,000 (and perhaps less than 800,000) now live in the city proper. Most of the suburbs are pleasant enough. Back in 1950, I think Detroit had 1.9 million just in the city.

That's why I don't think the same policies are what's best for every part of the country. Maybe San Francisco can get by with living wage laws, 10% income taxes, lots of red tape, and still prosper. That's because you don't get San Francisco's year round light jacket weather, and it's pleasant hills and dramatic scenery with 3 sides of water anywhere else. OTOH, there's a lot of places like Dallas that are flat and hot, or like Columbus which is flat and cold. If they adopt San Francisco style policies, businesses just flee en masse. The flyover country cities need low taxes, right-to-work laws, deregulation, etc. in order to maximize their growth.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It should be noted that there is a huge distinction between the City of Detroit proper and the Detroit suburbs. The City of Detroit itself is an almost third-world-like ghetto outside of the pathetic downtown area.

In contrast, the Detroit suburbs themselves are very nice and, ignoring employment issues, offer a relatively low cost of living and a high quality of life (low population density, fresh air, reasonable traffic, etc.) In fact Oakland County, Michigan--home to much of the region's upper class--is or once was one of the nation's wealthiest counties. Oakland County is also home to the "Lakes Country" where you can find hundreds of lakes, many of which are quite sizeable, surrounded by fancy McMansions.

As for the City of Detroit itself, it's a result of failed social policies--a failure of the U.S. government and of the state government to address poverty. The white population fled the City after the '67 riots (white flight) and in the past couple of decades blacks who could afford to do so fled too, leaving a concentration of mostly impoverished people and generational poverty.

IMHO, 95% of the people who live in the City (and some who live in some of the poor inner-ring suburbs) need to be resettled with a great many of them being sent to some sort of kibbutz-type communes and re-education camps so that they may be reeducated into more rational, productive, self-sufficient citizens in order to help break the cycle of generational poverty. Then the residential parts of the City need to be razed to the ground and the infrastructure rebuilt in order to prepare for some sort of gentrification.

Of course, if the U.S. continues down its path of global labor arbitrage and mass immigration, working to transform itself into a third world country, then we won't be able to help the people of Detroit and the nation itself will start to more closely resemble Detroit.

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 1 (Original music track was great and matched the video. Too bad he had to remove it.)

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 2

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 3

Song and video -- We Almost Lost Detroit

 

[Cattlegod]

Detroit city council meetings. These guys are crazy:

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZi05MMkLxA
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...tion_282815&feature=iv

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The Detroit City Council is great for entertainment! The folks in the suburbs just watch these videos and laugh. (It might actually be funny if it weren't so sad.)

Detroit City Council meeting adjourns with animosity -- Shrek!

The famous Shrek comment where crazy Monica calls Cockrel "Shrek" is at around 0:55.

 

[Sacrilege]

I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
It should be noted that there is a huge distinction between the City of Detroit proper and the Detroit suburbs. The City of Detroit itself is an almost third-world-like ghetto outside of the pathetic downtown area.

In contrast, the Detroit suburbs themselves are very nice and, ignoring employment issues, offer a relatively low cost of living and a high quality of life (low population density, fresh air, reasonable traffic, etc.) In fact Oakland County, Michigan--home to much of the region's upper class--is or once was one of the nation's wealthiest counties. Oakland County is also home to the "Lakes Country" where you can find hundreds of lakes, many of which are quite sizeable, surrounded by fancy McMansions.

As for the City of Detroit itself, it's a result of failed social policies--a failure of the U.S. government and of the state government to address poverty. The white population fled the City after the '67 riots (white flight) and in the past couple of decades blacks who could afford to do so fled too, leaving a concentration of mostly impoverished people and generational poverty.

IMHO, 95% of the people who live in the City (and some who live in some of the poor inner-ring suburbs) need to be resettled with a great many of them being sent to some sort of kibbutz-type communes and re-education camps so that they may be reeducated into more rational, productive, self-sufficient citizens in order to help break the cycle of generational poverty. Then the residential parts of the City need to be razed to the ground and the infrastructure rebuilt in order to prepare for some sort of gentrification.

Of course, if the U.S. continues down its path of global labor arbitrage and mass immigration, working to transform itself into a third world country, then we won't be able to help the people of Detroit and the nation itself will start to more closely resemble Detroit.

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 1 (Original music track was great and matched the video. Too bad he had to remove it.)

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 2

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 3

Song and video -- We Almost Lost Detroit

halway through first one. Wow. I like the boats showing the earlier wealth with what is there now. That city is a national embarrassement.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

An African American does run America.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

An African American does run America.

And some would say America is going downhill under his watch. We certainly are approaching banana republic like fiscal policy.

And does Obama really make all the decisions? Or is he kind of the aggregate spokesman of White dominated political interest groups and a White dominated cabinet?

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Detroit has been a shit hole for decades and for decades it's residents have been trying to burn it down on Hell Night every year

Yeah, I remember driving through there around 85' and I was flabbergasted. There were miles upon miles of derelict burnt out buildings. It looked exactly like carpet bombed Germany after the war.

I couldn't even have previously imagined that a place like that existed in the US.

 

[TruePaige]

Detroit is the result of a bunch of lazy assholes who would rather sit around and rob / steal / do crack all day than go out and make an honest days wage. Nothing more.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

An African American does run America.

He's half white.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

An African American does run America.

He's half white.

It's funny how people that play the race card always ignore that. 0.o

 

[JKing106]

It's also funny how if you have one black parent, you're black, no matter what race the other parent is.

 

[Leon]

Detroit is a mini-Somalia inside the US

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: JKing106
It's also funny how if you have one black parent, you're black, no matter what race the other parent is.

TBH, I thought Derek Jeter was white for the longest time. I think it just has to do with skin tone.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper


A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 2

A Tour of the Detroit Ghetto pt 3

Song and video -- We Almost Lost Detroit

Fascinating Captain, the America on this world seems to have developed entirely opposite of the America shown us on the Disney CH,TLC and Food Network

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Sacrilege
I have heard that if African Americans ran America it would be like Somalia. Is this true? Is Detroit a small experiment of that which has turned a city into Mogadishu?

I would also like to concur with Paddington's post. Why establish a business in a bland middle America city when you can build in a more vibrant, coastal city with natural advantages (sea access, appeal to young workers, appeal to foreigners, etc.). Hinterland cities must have economic advantages to offset these differences and Detroit apparently doesn't have these advantages.

And from the Youtube videos, it seems the local government is kind of kooky. That is a huge disincentive to business, similar to the risks of doing business in a third world nation with shaky government and legal establishment.

An African American does run America.

He's half white.

Many if not most people who identify as black or African American have some European ancestry. During and for many years after slavery, white men could rape black women without consequence. Most light-skinned black people are the children of these rapes.

In terms of ancestry, President Obama is half-white. Socially, he, and millions of other light-skinned black people are black. Malcolm X is black. Muhammad Ali is black. Nobody would dispute this.

This is an odd tangent in this thread. I'm not even sure why I originally replied to Sacrilege's racist troll.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

It would be nice if the thread could get back on track to a discussion about Detroit. Hey, at least they have the Red Wings!

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

It would be nice if the thread could get back on track to a discussion about Detroit. Hey, at least they have the Red Wings!

The use of the word Red within their name is a racial slur against people of Native American decent. Additionally, the word Red could be construed as hate speech against people of Communist and other Leftist political persuasions.

 

[Paddington]

There's also a lot of complex racial politics in Detroit that people from outside the region don't understand. For many years, Detroit was almost like the Birmingham or Atlanta of the North. They treated blacks pretty badly. Yes, it's true that Henry Ford championed equal pay for blacks or whatever, but overall for blacks living in the Detroit area wasn't that much better than living in the South. The mayor of suburban Dearborn, who was in office up until the 1970's, was famous for being the most famous segregationist in America outside of the South. Blacks struck back in the late 1960's in a series of riots, and the white business class in Detroit rapidly fled to the suburbs thereafter. In fact, they were encouraged to do so by Detroit's first black mayor Coleman Young who was almost a black segregationist/nationalist.

And in fact Southern cities like Atlanta were able to move on past their racial grievances (partially at least) there was zero progress on this front in Detroit. Detroit's blacks continue to harbor extreme suspicions of outside suburban interests, and the local elections in Detroit are typically won on a bash-whitey platform. So the shoe is on the other foot nowadays. I won't deny that a lot of the old school white racists still remain in the Detroit suburbs, but nowadays many folks want to help the city proper and they're spurned by the city council. The city council in Detroit is openly racist, and you routinely read stuff in the Detroit papers that "such and such business venture in Detroit was deep sixed by the council because they didn't want too many white guys from outside the city to get jobs", and that really hurts considering not too many people are lining up to invest in Detroit in the first place. The election of mayor Dave Bing has some people thinking that folks in Detroit will finally vote based on performance and good governance, rather than just "spite whitey", but the corrupt city council still remains.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Didn't Coleman Young once say something to the effect that he thought most of the crime in Detroit was being committed by white people crossing over 8 Mile Road?

Anyway, recently the big issue has been the expansion and renovation of the Cobo Hall convention center, which hosts the annual North American Auto Show. The City spurned a proposal from suburban leaders which would involve a regional council taking over the ownership or at least the management of the facility. So now instead they are considering just moving the auto show out of Detroit all together and relocating it to a convention center in the posh upper-middle class suburb of Novi. I will laugh my ass of if that ends up happening.

 

[StageLeft]

After seeing those vids, now I really do want to visit detroit (not kidding).

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
After seeing those vids, now I really do want to visit detroit (not kidding).

Not even the posh upper class and upper-middle class suburbs of Oakland County where you can find multimillion dollar lake homes?

 

[Paddington]

The North American International Auto Show was up until a few years ago, the greatest such convention on Earth. I went there earlier this year and the whole place was in shambles, with many key exhibitors having pulled out and very irritable, defensive Chinese automakers that don't even sell cars in the U.S. having taken their place. The worst part of it though was the Cobo staff. All of them with blank, expressionless faces, literally dragging their feet to move. At the checkin, there was 8 or 10 people doing the work of one person. One perfectly able bodied young man who was supposed to be wiping the greasy fingerprints off a BMW, was doing the wax-on, wax-off thing like Daniel-san, except his hands were moving so damned slow each motion took him about 5 minutes. In Times Square, he could have made money as one of those statue street performers, but in Detroit it was just the union way of doing things and people barely noticed. There were tarps all over the ceilings to control the flooding roof. I even saw a guy taking a shit in one of the stairwells. A few years back (I'm talking like 2002 here), I remember there being incredibly beautiful models working the displays. This year there weren't models as much as there were dogs, complete dogs.


Needless to say, this show won't last long without some improvements. Cobo hall itself is massively in debt and losing tons of money. Suburban Oakland County (which is seen as being evil, white, and Republican, but also a favored destination for fleeing black Detroiters and of which Detroit, MI is not even part) graciously offered hundreds of millions to assume the debt, and fix and expand the convention, in order to keep the NAIAS. Their only demand - which seems pretty reasonable to me - was that the incompetently run convention center be jointly run by Detroit, Wayne County, and the suburban counties putting up the money for it. Seems reasonable to me, because as I pointed out above what's even worse than the crumbling building are the retards that work there. Of course, this was rejected by the Detroit City Council after 5 years of negotiations. When a white union worker at Cobo (and there's not many non-blacks that work there, BTW) begged Detroit City Council President Monica Conyers to accept the Cobo investment agreement, she berated him and said that she didn't want people of his skin color to get jobs that presumably belonged to black Detroiters only. This was hardly even shocking in metro Detroit, which is used to such pronouncements. It's just one example of how Detroit is willing to destroy itself if it thinks that doing so might spite someone out in the suburbs.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Paddington--I completely missed that part about Conyers telling a white guy that the jobs rightly belonged to black people. Do you have a reference for that? I'd like to read that article.