Creationists grow increasingly desperate in feud with Neil deGrasse Tyson

[WHAMPOM]

Bible Thumpers, "My Bible says what I say it says and you can't tell me different!" Read the Bible, Creation myths, genealogical lists. Wandering of the tribes, rants of a rather primitive tribal god with punishments over trivial offences, battles, empire building, love poems, kingdom's downfall. Then we get some good spiritual advice by Jesus followed by end of days bad trip/pipe dreams.

I will take the spiritual advice seriously you can flush the rest. What the New Cosmos does not do to the satisfaction of Bible Thumpers is all to the good.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Science is not infallible, and yes, it can be self correcting -- but by definition it means that what was accepted at one point as being "scientific fact", was in fact wrong. Thus, if someone believes some particular point is wrong (regardless of the reason; religion, ideology, whatever), it doesn't automatically mean they don't believe in science as a whole or can not be a scientist. Einstein: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. He certainly was not very religious, but understood the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not saying they can't coexist on some levels. But what happens when your creationist faith collides with your job as an astronomer, biologist, or geologist? What happens when different branches of science, like those above, come to very similar conclusions independently that are at odds with your creationist faith? What happens when the faith you believe in, the unwavering perfect word of god, is found to have contradictions and false information? Separate from science, what about the fact that there are so many different faiths in different gods?

Science could be wrong. Someone's religious beliefs could be wrong. Both could be wrong as well. One seems like it makes a lot more sense than the other, though. And that is the whole point of atheism... I can't prove thor doesn't exist. But I can learn from the many other faiths that have come and gone.

 

[sunzt]

You do realize that there are a majority of people who are both religious AND believe in evolution, right?

Thanks to the progress of scientific research in the area. It's not like the bible thumpers were gun ho about researching it ...


And don't forget the GOP presidential candidates who represent the conservative block with their views.... how many of them believed in evolution again? How many of them wanted to push creationism in school science classes?

 

[Vic]

Science exists because religion is intellectually unsatisfying. When God said "Let there be light" in Genesis 1:3, the bible doesn't tell us how God brought light into existence (or even what light is), it simply says "And there was light." Science arose to answer these missing questions.
Science is the exploration of factual knowledge. Religion tells us to accept authority without question.
This is where science and religion are incompatible. Someone said earlier in this thread that science is atheistic. That is not true. Science is neither atheistic nor theistic. But science is definitely agnostic in that it completely disavows anything supernatural or shamanistic. The "I'm right because I said so" argument doesn't work in science like it does in religion.
So you can believe in God and accept science, and there is no incompatibility. God is the source of all knowledge. But what can't do is accept science and believe the religious shamans, who tell you what you must believe because they say so.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Funny thread...

Let me get this straight though, a couple of creationists are complaining about a science program and this is an attack by "butthurt atheists" and "religion bashing"?

How the fuck does that work? Every time anyone has the gall to disagree with a creationist he is a "butthurt atheist"?

 

[Vic]

Funny thread...

Let me get this straight though, a couple of creationists are complaining about a science program and this is an attack by "butthurt atheists" and "religion bashing"?

How the fuck does that work? Every time anyone has the gall to disagree with a creationist he is a "butthurt atheist"?

Name calling is the first refuge of the incompetent.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Thanks to the progress of scientific research in the area. It's not like the bible thumpers were gun ho about researching it ...


And don't forget the GOP presidential candidates who represent the conservative block with their views.... how many of them believed in evolution again? How many of them wanted to push creationism in school science classes?

I'd also add that in the US it's absolutely not true that most people agree with the theory of evolution. Even people who claim to do so mostly do not since they are ok up to a point or with random changes to the actual facts (that if they were true would falsify the theory of evolution once and for all), they just don't have much of a clue what evolution is.

 

[Vic]

I'm religious and I believe in evolution. I don't understand exactly how we got to where we are. There are still a lot of questions, but I believe in it in concept and think life evolved.

My priest says there is nothing in the bible that says evolution didn't happen, nor does it say the earth is only 6,000 years old. He says he personally doesn't believe we evolved from rats, but there is nothing in the catholic religion that says one way or another.

What does that say about us?

Humans did not evolve from rats, we share a common ancestor.

 

[Cozarkian]

Any person who never learned about creationism had a poor education. It's too large of a part of history and culture to ignore. That said, it belongs in English or literature classes, not in science classes, because faith isn't conducive to the scientific method.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Humans did not evolve from rats, we share a common ancestor.

I think this is a common misunderstanding by most people who have no biology education.

I spent some time arguing with someone who proclaimed to be well versed in the theory of evolution and he refused to understand that bats and dolphins are closer related than bats are to birds or dolphins to fish. It's not as simple as some people believe (and thus dismiss it because it's too simple).

KNOWLEDGE, not belief is what it takes to properly assess whether a theory is reasonable or not.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Any person who never learned about creationism had a poor education. It's too large of a part of history and culture to ignore. That said, it belongs in English or literature classes, not in science classes, because faith isn't conducive to the scientific method.

I'd say in religious or history classes, i don't see how it would belong in English class at all and literature classes don't seem to fit either.

 

[Cozarkian]

I'd say in religious or history classes, i don't see how it would belong in English class at all and literature classes don't seem to fit either.

Religion courses aren't mainstream enough. You could probably fit it into history. My 9th grade English class read a variety of excerpts of various from religious and mythological texts, such as the Odyssey, the Mahabharata, the Niebelungelied, and Genesis. Pardon my spelling on those.

 

[shira]

Ah, another religious-bashing thread. This is what modern atheism has become.

Maybe when religious fanatics stop putting their noses where they don't belong they won't receive the ridicule they so richly deserve.

And please note that this isn't a "religion"-bashing thread. It's a totally approrpiate Creationist-bashing thread.

 

[PokerGuy]

I'm not saying they can't coexist on some levels. But what happens when your creationist faith collides with your job as an astronomer, biologist, or geologist?

If that occurs, you can either re-evaluate your beliefs, re-validate your evidence that leads to the collision, or both. I tend to be a very rational person so evidence trumps belief when there is a conflict for me, but that's a far cry from a lot of the atheist true believers who act like they belong to a religious cult no different than the religions they decry.

What happens when the faith you believe in, the unwavering perfect word of god, is found to have contradictions and false information?

It's rarely that black and white, because what is in fact in contradiction is the interpretation of the Bible or whatever books you believe in.

Separate from science, what about the fact that there are so many different faiths in different gods?

That's an argument against faith / religion, but doesn't amount to anything. We don't have the answer, so one or all of them could be right/wrong. Each person gets to form their own opinion.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Ah, another religious-bashing thread. This is what modern atheism has become.

Ok, yours was post # 7 in the thread. Prior to your post not one of the previous posts came anywhere close to 'bashing religion'.

Felt the need to thread crap did you? How pathetic.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

Religion courses aren't mainstream enough. You could probably fit it into history. My 9th grade English class read a variety of excerpts of various from religious and mythological texts, such as the Odyssey, the Mahabharata, the Niebelungelied, and Genesis. Pardon my spelling on those.

Seems very strange that a teacher would include that in an English class since it's not even English literature.

I suppose you could mull over the various creation myths in such a scenario but i don't think that would go over well at all.

I also don't think that there is any real value to specifically learn about creationism outside of religion so it seems to me that it would fit perfectly in religion classes.

In the UK we have compulsory religion classes.

 

[MasterOfUsers]

atheist true believers who act like they belong to a religious cult no different than the religions they decry.

Who are these people? Could you give me an example and explain in what way that person acts like he belongs to a religious cult?

 

[JD50]

It's rarely that black and white, because what is in fact in contradiction is the interpretation of the Bible or whatever books you believe in.

Do you not notice how convenient this is? The bible can never be proven wrong because every single time something in the bible is proven to be false it all of the sudden becomes allegorical or a "problem with interpretation." You'd think the word of god would be a little more clear.

 

[shira]

Science is not infallible, and yes, it can be self correcting -- but by definition it means that what was accepted at one point as being "scientific fact", was in fact wrong. Thus, if someone believes some particular point is wrong (regardless of the reason; religion, ideology, whatever), it doesn't automatically mean they don't believe in science as a whole or can not be a scientist. Einstein: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. He certainly was not very religious, but understood the two are not mutually exclusive.

The problem is that religions and adherents to those religions DO hold their basic tenets to be infallible. These tenets are not "falsifiable" (as are science theories). Thus you have true-believers (who are implicitly saying "Our beliefs are by definition true") claiming that they should have some kind of say in science discourse (where the underlying assumption is that ALL "truth" is subject to verification and revision).

If you believe something because of your religious faith, you have NOTHING to contribute to the scientific discussion of that "something" for the very simple reason that you don't agree to abide by the rules of science.

 

[Retro Rob]

Maybe when religious fanatics stop putting their noses where they don't belong they won't receive the ridicule they so richly deserve.

And please note that this isn't a "religion"-bashing thread. It's a totally approrpiate Creationist-bashing thread.

Now its atheists excuse making. That's like saying if gays didn't put their noses in the media, id accept them.

Same thing, bigot.

 

[child of wonder]

Science isn't required to invalidate the Christian god. If such a being, as described in the Bible, exists I would never voluntarily worship such an evil, horrible monster.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Now its atheists excuse making. That's like saying if gays didn't put their noses in the media, id accept them.

Same thing, bigot.

I heard of this guy once who said some pretty true things about planks and eyes and motes of dust and whatnot, but I'll be darned if I can't remember exactly what it was. If only there were people who professed to follow that guy who might remember and heed the things he said...

 

[davmat787]

Fanatical religious people just can't stand facts and science. It is evident by trying to place religious teachings in school, and deny schools real scientific teachings. Shoot we have fanatics in other countries destroying schools and kidnapping girls from their schools. Science and education is are the two main things that religious nuts fear the most.

Yes. Moderate or thinking religious people realize science is merely another way to understand the creations of God. There is a long list of Christian and other religious types who made very important discoveries and contributions to science. Only the fringe whacko right would suggest that is blasphemy.

*I am not religious at all, just realize that religion and science can coexist quite well if one attempts to do so without an agenda.

 

[kage69]

Funny thread...

Let me get this straight though, a couple of creationists are complaining about a science program and this is an attack by "butthurt atheists" and "religion bashing"?

How the fuck does that work? Every time anyone has the gall to disagree with a creationist he is a "butthurt atheist"?

lol yup


Clearly you are shaking with both rage and fear, because...uh...freedom...erm, jesus?

It's in short supply right now, but you really should try to find some of that Benghazi butthurt cream. Some really tremendous assholes have had need of it lately, so I think it could help you with your spittle infused rhetoric there...

 

[MongGrel]

Haven't even watched the last few, but just reading things makes me grin a bit.