Creationist Ken Ham calls to end space program because aliens are going to hell anywa

[MongGrel]

No. You don't know much about sport fishermen, either. You never give away your secret fishing holes. Duh.

:biggrin:

 

[MongGrel]

How ironic it is that literalists generally offer all the flood stories of different cultures as "proof" of a great flood, then one literalist dismisses an earlier story about a great flood as being coincidental. I suppose the Epic of Gilgamesh was talking about some OTHER flood, Hmmmm? One that the Bible failed to mention?

And, you're an idiot if you think it's just a coincidence that "Thou shalt not kill" is in the Bible and our laws make murder illegal.

Further, why didn't you make any attempt at all to address the other points I made? Let's toss another one out: 2000 years ago, they didn't understand what the moon was. In the Bible, God created it to rule the night. Two lights in the sky. However, the light of the moon COMES from the light from the sun. This seems to be a blatant omission; though you can't blame the writers back then, they didn't know any better. You'd have thought that God would have known better though. And, the moon doesn't simply "rule the night" - the moon is visible for just as many daylight hours as night hours; an oversight of the writers apparently. Or, how about Kings 7:23. Back then, they had Pi accurate to about, ohhhh, 1 decimal place. I think the Chinese at that time were out to 3 decimal places or so. But, the Bible has pi as equaling 3. (I'll let this one slide; it's easily explained by "rounding.")

Didn't Mississippi or Alabama or some state down here actually try to pass legislation years ago to change Pi to 3.14 or something years ago legally.

I mean, seriously, you have to laugh your ass off sometimes.

Just round that number off, we don't need to get too technical

 

[Babbles]

Religion, it's why we can't have nice things. An oddly can't get over ourselves either.

Religion has given us lots of nice things! Art, science, architecture, music, literature, education, philosophy, and so forth.

I think Ken Ham is bat-shit insane, but on the other hand to casually disregard religion as having no utility is just as ignorant as believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

 

[MongGrel]

Religion has given us lots of nice things! Art, science, architecture, music, literature, education, philosophy, and so forth.

I think Ken Ham is bat-shit insane, but on the other hand to casually disregard religion as having no utility is just as ignorant as believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

I agree.

It is the interpretation, implementation and hard core application of it that causes most problems.

The Zealot types are the ones that really screw everything up everywhere.

Someone even thought I was Jewish the other day, which was somewhat amusing. I even used a negative Jewish term there, though it applies to many more than that

Zealotry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealot

 

[sandorski]

Ken Ham should stick to crocoducks and bananas.

None of the supernatural events written in the Bible ever happened. They are just fantasies of ancient people; retelling stories about things they couldn't understand and needed an explanation for.

You're thinking of that other idiot from down under, Ray Comfort.

 

[sandorski]

Ham hasn't really thought this through. If Aliens are also going to Hell, that's all the more reason to find, Convert, then start collecting tithes from them.

 

[VRAMdemon]

It must be nice to have a complete set of answers for any issue that comes up, to be utterly convinced of your correctness and immune to any arguments to the contrary, and to be able to summarily dismiss your detractors as evil unbelievers or ignorant tools of a secret atheist secular conspiracy. He even has a museum teaching people that representatives of all the animals in the world, including dinosaurs, were put on a magic boat about 4500 years ago to save them from a worldwide flood. So he's got that going for him.

The guy has a Bachelor of Applied Science, with an emphasis in Environmental Biology, at Queensland Institute of Technology. One day he gets religion, opens a ministry and starts raising money. Fairly easy to see through this scammer.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Ham You never see any of these pricks take a vow of poverty.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Religion has given us lots of nice things! Art, science, architecture, music, literature, education, philosophy, and so forth.

I think Ken Ham is bat-shit insane, but on the other hand to casually disregard religion as having no utility is just as ignorant as believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible.

It's been a utility of hatred and war just as much as a tool for good. It's a great tool for controlling the weak minded masses as well.

Nothing casual about my disregard.

 

[VRAMdemon]

Ham hasn't really thought this through. If Aliens are also going to Hell, that's all the more reason to find, Convert, then start collecting tithes from them.

We can point and laugh even if the ETs are algae attached to a meteor..

 

[Iron Woode]

Your "predates" argument is a woefully bad one, as the law against murder in the Ten Commandments "predate" US Laws prohibiting murder. Does that mean that we deliberately borrowed from them to frame our laws? No, as the similarity is purely coincidental, as you would likely agree.

I know you're suggesting that since X predates Y, then Y must have borrowed from X.

This argument is as fallacious as they come. Correlation does not imply causation.

Well, its very easy to find the similarities between any two things...the differences are often either ignored or whitewashed, and take a measure of intellectual honesty to read.

Since DrPizza brought up Gilgamesh, lets try that one, shall we:

~ snipped religious nuttery

it's like being Bukkaked with stupid.

 

[DigDog]

**snip**

how did you not just stop reading at "Creationist"

 

[witeken]

Ham argued that “secularists are desperate to find life in outer space” as a part of their “rebellion against God in a desperate attempt to supposedly prove evolution.”

Nothing wrong with evolution. I just read this, Less than 10% of human DNA has functional role, claim scientists:

But if much of our DNA is so worthless, why do we still carry it around? “It’s not true that nature is parsimonious in terms of needing a small genome. Wheat has a much larger genome than we do,” Lunter said. “We haven’t been designed. We’ve evolved and that’s a messy process. This other DNA really is just filler. It’s not garbage. It might come in useful one day. But it’s not a burden.”

 

[witeken]

I like Neil DeGrasse Tyson's take on this, myself.



Benevolent or not, the idea that we're going to be having sophisticated conversations with intelligent life is pretty silly. They might as well throw us in a zoo. Which, if I'm remembering Slaughterhouse 5 correctly, might not be so bad.

I'm not sure if he understands evolution. You can't just change 1% of the DNA and have something that makes us look like a worm in comparison. Evolution doesn't work to let people intuitively understand string theory. Intelligent life on other planets must also have evolved to survive with primitive tools and primitive brains, which eventually evolved into brains with lots of neurons.

Michio Kaku on the Evolution of Intelligence

It isn't because of this 1%. Michio Kaku lists some things that have caused us to be able to built the Hubble telescope. Basically it's just our brains. If you want to be more intelligent, you need more neurons (or a better equivalent), better education and better tools.

The only way you can use his quote is to disprove God, the omniscient being who apparently (only) cares about humans, which is of course ridiculous because which being infinitely intelligent would care about stupid worms?

But I'm pretty sure you won't find intelligent life like Neil DeGrasse Tyson describes.

 

[witeken]

I will need a reason to not believe, to be honest.

The absence of evidence.

It doesn't work how you say it. You start with no knowledge, and you gain knowledge by evidence. You don't start with "everything exists" and then say "proof it doesn't exist". Aka, you need a reason to believe, not a reason not to believe.

I think it boils down to whether or not one has reason to believe in a god/God.

Okay, so you agree. But you can't invent reasons. They must be valid, unambiguous, scientific reasons. You don't have those, so when I read your comments, you actually should be an atheist.

 

[Iron Woode]

I would like retro rob to expound more on Noah's ark and how 1 male & 1 female creates genetic diversity required for a species success.

 

[DrPizza]

I'm not sure if he understands evolution. You can't just change 1% of the DNA and have something that makes us look like a worm in comparison. Evolution doesn't work to let people intuitively understand string theory. Intelligent life on other planets must also have evolved to survive with primitive tools and primitive brains, which eventually evolved into brains with lots of neurons.

Michio Kaku on the Evolution of Intelligence

It isn't because of this 1%. Michio Kaku lists some things that have caused us to be able to built the Hubble telescope. Basically it's just our brains. If you want to be more intelligent, you need more neurons (or a better equivalent), better education and better tools.

The only way you can use his quote is to disprove God, the omniscient being who apparently (only) cares about humans, which is of course ridiculous because which being infinitely intelligent would care about stupid worms?

But I'm pretty sure you won't find intelligent life like Neil DeGrasse Tyson describes.

It's more involved than just neurons. There's a type of crow that was recently discovered to have better problem solving skills than 7 year old children. And, they do appear to have an intuitive understanding of some scientific principles, such as water displacement.

I would like retro rob to expound more on Noah's ark and how 1 male & 1 female creates genetic diversity required for a species success.

There are a lot of parasitic diseases and other virus and bacteria caused illnesses that are exclusive to humans. So, who had some of the original STDs? (Presuming there's no evolution.)

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Ken Ham is a nut case and an embarrassment to Christianity. /thread

 

[Babbles]

It's been a utility of hatred and war just as much as a tool for good. It's a great tool for controlling the weak minded masses as well.

Nothing casual about my disregard.

Perhaps a case of casual ignorance to see only what you choose to see?

Everything since the dawn of things has been used for both good and bad. I would tend to think that since we have evolved socially and technologically to the degree that we have had, by observation of the data religion has been more of a tool for good than for hate. To think that one has to be part of the 'weak minded masses' to get value from religion is mindbogglingly narrow-minded. Somewhat ironic, methinks. Likewise secular activities can be used to control the 'weak minded masses' just as much as religion.

I haven't considered myself as a Christian for going on nearly 15 years now. However, I do tend to get a bit bothered when people are quick to disregard what has been historically a very important thread to the fabric of our existence.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Perhaps a case of casual ignorance to see only what you choose to see?

You can define it how you like. I've had more than enough experience with religion to call my disregard casual.

Everything since the dawn of things has been used for both good and bad.

oooh, the dawn of things. tell us when that was!

I would tend to think that since we have evolved socially and technologically to the degree that we have had, by observation of the data religion has been more of a tool for good than for hate.

Do go on.

To think that one has to be part of the 'weak minded masses' to get value from religion is mindbogglingly narrow-minded. Somewhat ironic, methinks.

The strong minded religious see it for what it is and capitalize on it, they are the religous leaders.

Likewise secular activities can be used to control the 'weak minded masses' just as much as religion.

So what you're saying is that religion is the lesser of two evils, therefore is actually good.

I haven't considered myself as a Christian for going on nearly 15 years now. However, I do tend to get a bit bothered when people are quick to disregard what has been historically a very important thread to the fabric of our existence.

Historically important to who? Has religion influenced where we are today? Absolutely. Does that mean it's still relevant today? Not from where I sit, but many people still think so because that's what they're raised to believe, and it's not easy to see things outside of that point of view.

You bring up how far we've come technologically. I think we can do better, and it will happen faster if we shed are religious history as just that....history.

My disregard did not happen overnight, and it was not an easy thing to come to. My religious background is deep and wide( ), it was not easy to see outside of the box that was built around me.

FWIW, for the purpose of this thread and our debate, I don't associate religion and belief. They are not one in the same.