creationism/intelligent design is inconsistant with the definition of God

[Onceler]

that's the failure of logic right there
/end discussion

...however since we're in the realm of fantasy and trying to make sense out of religion is like trying to make logical sense out of the lore for World of Warcraft... I'll play along a little bit.

Intelligent Design Creationism is nonsensical internally-non-self-consistent garbage. Seeing as the main proponents of IDC (Intelligent Design Creationism) are Christians... and therefore that's the particular "god" we're talking about here... it must be said that the source text for the Christian religion is also nonsensical internally-non-self-consistent garbage.

Therefore I find the nonsensical internally-non-self-consistent garbage known as Intelligent Design Creationism to be completely consistent with the nonsensical internally-non-self-consistent garbage known as Christianity and therefore the particular "god" that we are discussing in this thread.

QED

I just say this : that we are intelligently designed(everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us) and that we now control our own evolution "intelligently"(I say it like that because even though we are able to create a race of super humans if we wanted to the damned leftists out there would still demand that we keep on producing the welfare sub human trash that we do).

 

[colonelciller]

I just say this : that we are intelligently designed(everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us).

I'll just say this: what you have said is obscenely false and there is zero evidence WHATSOEVER for the make-believe claim that "everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us".

those statements of yours are pure fantasy, right up there with the lore from Lord of the Rings. made up nonsense.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I just say this : that we are intelligently designed(everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us) and that we now control our own evolution "intelligently"(I say it like that because even though we are able to create a race of super humans if we wanted to the damned leftists out there would still demand that we keep on producing the welfare sub human trash that we do).

If only Hitler had been allowed to continue his work we'd have a super race already.

Doesn't that just make you oh so sad?

 

[Onceler]

There really is no right way to respond to this. Hitler is such that the very mention of his name further discredits anything that the person might say. I was talking about a peaceful takeover ala GATTACA.

 

[colonelciller]

There really is no right way to respond to this. Hitler is such that the very mention of his name further discredits anything that the person might say. I was talking about a peaceful takeover ala GATTACA.

actually his post was dead on target. Hitler was running an eugenics movement.

There was also an eugenics movement in America at the time but that is another topic entirely (of interest is that IQ test pseudoscience was born out of the eugenics movement in the USA).


along with the Intelligent Design Creationism myth that you were talking about you also talked about a modern day eugenics movement

and that we now control our own evolution "intelligently"(I say it like that because even though we are able to create a race of super humans if we wanted to the damned leftists out there would still demand that we keep on producing the welfare sub human trash that we do).

... so yes, your idea would fit splendidly in the Third Reich... and your idea does bear resemblance to the eugenics & IQ testing movements in the USA that were born during the WWII era... and those movements were themselves the products of an irrational pig-headed racism that was present in America at the time.

enjoy your company I suppose

 

[Onceler]

actually his post was dead on target. Hitler was running an eugenics movement.

There was also an eugenics movement in America at the time but that is another topic entirely (of interest is that IQ test pseudoscience was born out of the eugenics movement in the USA).


along with the Intelligent Design Creationism myth that you were talking about you also talked about a modern day eugenics movement
... so yes, your idea would fit splendidly in the Third Reich... and your idea does bear resemblance to the eugenics & IQ testing movements in the USA that were born during the WWII era... and those movements were themselves the products of an irrational pig-headed racism that was present in America at the time.

enjoy your company I suppose

A lot of good could have come out of Eugenics but didn't because of the H word.
My point is is that we now have the capability to control our own evolution if we choose but we must stop the sub humans from taking over which they already have.

 

[colonelciller]

A lot of good could have come out of Eugenics but didn't because of the H word.

the only way "A lot of good could have come out of Eugenic" would be if some omnipotent being (you perhaps??) would capture a few thousand human beings and force them to selecetively breed. You could then cross those offspring to other offspring with traits that your holy omnipotence deems desirable. In other words... you would have to create a nightmare of rape and torture that would rival Hitler and the 3rd Reich.

I'm guessing you don't have a frickin clue what you're talking about my friend.

If you think that genetic engineering is going to be used to produce a superior master race of human beings (oh look, there's hitler again swimming around in your ideas) then you definitely don't have a clue what you are talking about. Biotechnology is nowhere near capable (not even close, not even on the forseeable horizon) of manipulating animal genomes to produce desirable traits (beyond inserting a gene here or there in mice/rats/ect.)

In transgenic animal models you see insertions of genes or deletions of genes but the process is highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly highly error prone...

...Meaning you'd be running :twisted: hell :twisted: on :twisted: earth :twisted: laboratory/factory producing endless stillborn monsters, aborted mutant fetuses and seriously screwed up "viable" humans who would live long or short lives with serious disability or excruciating pain or worse. Sounds a lot like the 3rd Reich to me.

but you know all of this right? of course you do because you're dialed into the cutting edge science of Intelligent Design Creationism... so Hitler is your best friend it would seem.

Just what I'd expect from an ()Intelligent Design Creationism() advocate!

 

[colonelciller]

cutting edge pseudoscience of Intelligent Design Creationism

*correction

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

There really is no right way to respond to this. Hitler is such that the very mention of his name further discredits anything that the person might say. I was talking about a peaceful takeover ala GATTACA.

Nope, Godwins law does not apply since you yourself brought up eugenics and referred to the "undesirables" as "welfare sub human scum".

You proclaimed the same views as Hitler and thus it's perfectly apt to name the man that you have molded your ideas from.

One thing i am completely sure of is that if you want a better society you'll have to commit suicide first. No society has ever thrived because the participants lacked empathy and had the intelligence of a turnip.

These sorts of personal remarks are not appropriate for the DC. We've already discussed this, and I explained to you how things work here. If you persist, you will leave me no choice but to take action that I'd prefer not to take. --ck

 

[Onceler]

Any one who breeds animals knows that the best of the best make the best offspring. Welfare rewards lazy degenerates for not contributing to society while giving them more rewards for breeding.
Not smart.

 

[Moonbeam]

Any one who breeds animals knows that the best of the best make the best offspring. Welfare rewards lazy degenerates for not contributing to society while giving them more rewards for breeding.
Not smart.

In the first place humans breed animals for a particular purpose. Most of the breeds created by people would not survive in the natural world.

And since the natural world that humans seem intent on creating is massive wealth inequality, the survival of the human race will depend on the presence of large numbers of lazy degenerates who contribute nothing because only the few who have wealth will be able to do that. Just imagine a world where only a few can succeed but billions are full of the same or greater capacity. Geez, it will lead to revolution and the destruction of everything that gives anybody an advantage. I'm not going hungry if you are well fed and I am actually better. Know what I mean? Poverty will make me leaner and meaner and my focus will never waver. Blink and you'll see what happens.

 

[Pulsar]

I'll just say this: what you have said is obscenely false and there is zero evidence WHATSOEVER for the make-believe claim that "everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us".

those statements of yours are pure fantasy, right up there with the lore from Lord of the Rings. made up nonsense.

If you disagree, then disagree. But don't antagonize. He has every right to believe in a god, just as you don't.

I disagree with the original surmise of the title. While I don't believe in intelligent design, you can easily make the logical jump that goes from believing in god to believing that god design things the way they are on purpose.

 

[Pulsar]

Any one who breeds animals knows that the best of the best make the best offspring. Welfare rewards lazy degenerates for not contributing to society while giving them more rewards for breeding.
Not smart.

Welfare handed out without motivation to improve does exactly what you state. Welfare handed out intelligently in order to motivate and bring people back into the work force does not.

I believe we can structure welfare intelligently.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Any one who breeds animals knows that the best of the best make the best offspring. Welfare rewards lazy degenerates for not contributing to society while giving them more rewards for breeding.
Not smart.

I am fairly certain that wealth has no bearing on ones actual genetics.

Eugenics would be if you took the best equipped children from all social classes and only gave them the ability to succeed but this isn't what you are proposing is just "kill the poor".

I apologize for the earlier personal remark, i get a bit worked up as a Jew when people are reminiscing Nazi Germany's ideas as good.

 

[colonelciller]

If you disagree, then disagree. But don't antagonize. He has every right to believe in a god, just as you don't.

the claim that "everything in our evolutionary past has been leading up to us" is a statement about science not about belief in one of the countless gods of human mythology. that claim is utterly without merit, is obscenely false and there is zero evidence WHATSOEVER for that make-believe claim. those are factual statements rooted in actual science and an understanding of the make-believe-pseudoscience-propaganda-machine known as the intelligent design creationism movement.

 

[Onceler]

If you take welfare and have not found a job in six months and want to continue to take welfare you get your nuts cut,that's the way it should be.
It didn't happen in six days or even six thousand years anyone who believes such b.s. is an idiot that ignores proof but on the other hand it is equally idiotic to state that one knows for sure that there is no God just because He keeps out of things.

 

[colonelciller]

It didn't happen in six days or even six thousand years anyone who believes such b.s. is an idiot that ignores proof.

i've filtered out the part of you post that is just rambling sillyness and left the part that is correct... assuming that by "It" you are referring to "evolution"

 

[Sheep221]

Any one who breeds animals knows that the best of the best make the best offspring. Welfare rewards lazy degenerates for not contributing to society while giving them more rewards for breeding.
Not smart.

Dude superior "ones" don't exist, breeding to get best offspring is some sort of expensive hobby rather than purpose.
Natural breeding does not guarantee you that latest newborn will also be bearing some performance characteristics you might expecting.

Anyway, the IDC theories and some opinions presented here(even if claimed to be logically based) are not real, because they can't be achieved by us.
Humans are part of nature, not owners of it, so we don't have enough power to control the nature, be it via genetic engineering or technologies. Any man-made intervention to the natural system will cause it to automatically balance and restore on other side. E.g. if you would be able to produce super-humans via genetic engineering, it only means that they would be having superior intelligence or physical strength, but they would be more prone to diseases, relatively vulnerable and they would live shorter, for example.
Humans don't have mental capacity to take over natural control, and probably they will never have that, it's a simple fact we are not able to change.

 

[Braznor]

Wow, the people here are so ignorant. People, there is an entire honest intellectual internet for all of you to read and sculpt your minds (provided its not tinfoil.) You must just be honest enough to admit that ignorance can exist at any point and at any level in our own minds, so therefore we must constantly strive to eliminate the same from ourselves by seeking the truth. Once this process is natural to our thinking, all of us will start seek the next level by recognizing the truths that maketh us.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

If you take welfare and have not found a job in six months and want to continue to take welfare you get your nuts cut,that's the way it should be.
It didn't happen in six days or even six thousand years anyone who believes such b.s. is an idiot that ignores proof but on the other hand it is equally idiotic to state that one knows for sure that there is no God just because He keeps out of things.

Why should it be that way? Because YOU say so?

Why stop there? Smokers, drinkers, fatties, invalids, blind, deaf mentally ill in ANY way and of course, people who don't pass the master race genetics test, neuter them ALL. They are nothing but a burden on society in the long run.

Regarding god, not even the hardcore militant atheist Richard Dawkins takes that position.

God PROBABLY does not exist. However, it should be noted that unicorns PROBABLY do not exist either.

 

[Pulsar]

Wow, the people here are so ignorant. People, there is an entire honest intellectual internet for all of you to read and sculpt your minds (provided its not tinfoil.) You must just be honest enough to admit that ignorance can exist at any point and at any level in our own minds, so therefore we must constantly strive to eliminate the same from ourselves by seeking the truth. Once this process is natural to our thinking, all of us will start seek the next level by recognizing the truths that maketh us.

Yep. It's called the scientific method, and it allows us to test our theories to try to understand how things work. Ignorance is everywhere, and even the most concrete proof is only waiting to be disproved so that we can learn something new.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yep. It's called the scientific method, and it allows us to test our theories to try to understand how things work. Ignorance is everywhere, and even the most concrete proof is only waiting to be disproved so that we can learn something new.

A nice thing about reality is that it is as it is regardless of peoples opinion on the matter.

 

[Pulsar]

However, it should be noted that unicorns PROBABLY do not exist either.

Tread carefully. Jihads have been declared for less than that comment.

 

[sao123]

No matter what your beliefs regarding the existance of God, the rules of logic apply and designate what is deductively consistant with your premise.

If we start with the premise that God exists (a necessary premise for the any discussion re creationism or ID) then we must define God. (This is not optional in a logical discussion)

Unfortunately, no. When considering the question of the almighty, while counter-intuitive, logic is the last thing to turn to.
Faith, is the anti-thesis of logic. Believing in that which can never be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, touched, or deducted. Quite simply, the concept of God is irrational. That logic cannot deduce or describe it is not a flaw of the almighty, it is simply a fundamental limitation of logic.

The Judeao-Christian God requires an act of blind faith, the truly irrational decision. He is described as a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. Yet he is also slow to anger, filled with unfailing love and forgiveness. He is simultaneosly God, Man, and Spirit. He is both omnicient and yet grants complete free will. He is the beginning and the end. He is not subject to the laws of this universe which we exist in. God is a Paradox - logic can never describe this premise, and should not even try.

He does not attempt to compare himself to any item or quantity which is known, he is simply described as "I am that I am" or more properly "I will be what I will be".

 

[JD50]

Unfortunately, no. When considering the question of the almighty, while counter-intuitive, logic is the last thing to turn to.
Faith, is the anti-thesis of logic. Believing in that which can never be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, touched, or deducted. Quite simply, the concept of God is irrational. That logic cannot deduce or describe it is not a flaw of the almighty, it is simply a fundamental limitation of logic.

The Judeao-Christian God requires an act of blind faith, the truly irrational decision. He is described as a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. Yet he is also slow to anger, filled with unfailing love and forgiveness. He is simultaneosly God, Man, and Spirit. He is both omnicient and yet grants complete free will. He is the beginning and the end. He is not subject to the laws of this universe which we exist in. God is a Paradox - logic can never describe this premise, and should not even try.

He does not attempt to compare himself to any item or quantity which is known, he is simply described as "I am that I am" or more properly "I will be what I will be".

Wow, we sure do know a lot about something that we can't see, touch, hear, smell, etc...