"Creation"

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Great. Another misleading article so people can exclaim, 'Ha, them stoopid Amerikans is stoopid.'

Here's a link to the actual poll this claim is based on:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114...Believe-Evolution.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say they do not believe in the theory, and another 36% don't have an opinion either way. These attitudes are strongly related to education and, to an even greater degree, religiosity.

So only 25% do not believe in the theory. Others haven't decided either way. A bit different from what the article implies.

It has been sold in almost every territory around the world, from Australia to Scandinavia.

Yeah. I bet this is going to be a huge hit in Yemen and the rest of the ME.

:roll:

Well, those on the fence are either ignorant or uneducated so that doesn't help much and are you seriously trying to make the argument that "at least we're better than the ME"? Because that would be a pretty lousy argument.

I'm fairly sure there are lots of much better comparisons that you could make than that, including the UK.

Maybe those on the fence simply see a theory for what it is, a theory? Personally I believe in the theory of evolution but I can understand why others may not. Many people don't really care to delve into the details of DNA, mutations, alleles, genotypes, and phenotypes to comprehend why it's a solid theory. In fact, I'd bet that many who believe in the theory of evolution don't have much of a clue about those either. btw, I was first taught the theory of evolution nearly 40 years ago, in a Catholic elementary school.

As far as my argument about the ME, it was a reference to the article where it was claimed that "It has been sold in almost every territory around the world, from Australia to Scandinavia." I'm pointing out that there are likely many other places that this film won't be showing. For some reason the article goes to great lengths to single out Americans in order to make them look stupid. Maybe that sort of thing appeals to the Telegraph's core audience who laps that sort of thing up though?

If the film is that good, US independent theaters will pick it up. Besides, here in the US we already had such a movie. It was called Evolution: Darwin's Dangerous Idea. Liam Neeson narrated it. So we're a bit ahead of the UK producing films on the particular subject.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: Vic
Most profound scientific discoveries came from deeply religious men who used the Bible as the means of interpreting their discoveries. As a consequence (or perhaps not), most of the profound scientific discoveries, big bang, evolution, etc, appear much as they were depicted in the Bible.

While I don't doubt that the Bible has had profound and subtle influences on all in its cultural domain, which would include pretty much all the members of at least the earlier generations of Western civilization credited with the scientific advances you mention, I (a) would doubt that evolution as defined by current scientific theory would be really the same as evolution referred to in spiritual literature, and (b) missed the parts of the Bible referring to evolution.

I'd love to hear more about this though. Please clarify what you meant by "evolution [...] depicted in the Bible".

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Kadarin
With all the rampant stupidity in this country, it's a wonder the US is still even a world power.

Where are you living? A cave?

It's not a world power anymore.

Maybe power of the idiots but that's about it.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Being unsure is just as bad as actively disbelieving. Evolution is so well established that to be unsure of whether the theory is sound is like being unsure of gravity. I also put Big Bang theory in that category, although it doesn't seem the draw the controversy like evolution does.

Being unsure is simply being questioning, or admitting that maybe someone doesn't have enough information to make a valid determination.

Evolution causes controversy because it grates on the vanity of certain people. Some people are too egotistical to believe that humans evolved from what they consider to be lower/lesser forms of life. Hence, the ridiculous proclamation of "I refuse to believe that we evolved from monkeys." Some people are just stupid that way.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Being unsure is just as bad as actively disbelieving. Evolution is so well established that to be unsure of whether the theory is sound is like being unsure of gravity. I also put Big Bang theory in that category, although it doesn't seem the draw the controversy like evolution does.

Being unsure is simply being questioning, or admitting that maybe someone doesn't have enough information to make a valid determination.

Evolution causes controversy because it grates on the vanity of certain people. Some people are too egotistical to believe that humans evolved from what they consider to be lower/lesser forms of life. Hence, the ridiculous proclamation of "I refuse to believe that we evolved from monkeys." Some people are just stupid that way.

Being unsure is definitely better than simply disbelieving but I think it is still a powerful testament to how America views this issue that so many are still unsure, considering the overwhelming evidence.

 

[Madwand1]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Perhaps there are other reasons that no American distributor has signed up for the film - they know our tastes in film better. There are a LOT of foreign films which are downright excellent that never reach US shores. I'm not saying that this isn't a great film, just that attributing this solely to the anti-evolution crowd is incomplete.

Controversy is free otherwise very expensive publicity. It's not so much that this subject is too controversial for the American public IMO, as that they're not really interested in such a depiction.

http://www.cinematical.com/200...day-september-11-2009/

And away we go! The Toronto International Film Festival got underway on Thursday, as official opener Creation landed with a painful thud. Reaction was more positive for Lars von Trier's Antichrist ...

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Being unsure is simply being questioning, or admitting that maybe someone doesn't have enough information to make a valid determination.

People weren't asked if they were "sure." They were asked ,

Do you, personally, believe in the theory of evolution, do you not believe in evolution, or don't you have an opinion either way?

Yet if asked in these same terms if they believe in God, at least 90% would say they do.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Being unsure is just as bad as actively disbelieving. Evolution is so well established that to be unsure of whether the theory is sound is like being unsure of gravity. I also put Big Bang theory in that category, although it doesn't seem the draw the controversy like evolution does.

Being unsure is simply being questioning, or admitting that maybe someone doesn't have enough information to make a valid determination.

Evolution causes controversy because it grates on the vanity of certain people. Some people are too egotistical to believe that humans evolved from what they consider to be lower/lesser forms of life. Hence, the ridiculous proclamation of "I refuse to believe that we evolved from monkeys." Some people are just stupid that way.

Apes not Monkeys. Monkeys stupid!

I think there can be no argument regarding the Evolution of thingi. To argue against Evolution is tantamount to saying children did not evolve from their parents.

I'm a Christian and I don't let the reality of Evolution get between me and my faith. I figure anything is possible regarding how humans got here.

Maybe the precursor to humans died off and poof here come humans via creation. Maybe Adam and Eve were Apes and the Sons of God (Gen 6) 'knew' them and made baby things that evolved to us. We're pretty smart entities the two Chimp (extinct I think) are not far off and current Chimp, Orang and Gorilla are not all that dissimilar. I could see that those three may have come from the same start as human.
I think Creationists should not scoff at what Science reveals. It is stupid to do so. I think we should simply agree with what we see and, in this case, maybe accept that there is no Proof that humans didn't simply get planted here and moved on in a dual track scenario. There is nothing there that puts our faith in question. We don't know what we don't know.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think we should simply agree with what we see and, in this case, maybe accept that there is no Proof that humans didn't simply get planted here and moved on in a dual track scenario. There is nothing there that puts our faith in question. We don't know what we don't know.

Negate the Negative FTW.

BTW Apes and Humans share a common ancestor, so no we didn't evolve from a monkey or an ape.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Only in the US is this still an issue. So ass backward.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Schmide

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think we should simply agree with what we see and, in this case, maybe accept that there is no Proof that humans didn't simply get planted here and moved on in a dual track scenario. There is nothing there that puts our faith in question. We don't know what we don't know.

Negate the Negative FTW.

BTW Apes and Humans share a common ancestor, so no we didn't evolve from a monkey or an ape.

eheheheh, yes we know what we know but beyond what we know is what we have yet to know. How is that? We are here and how that occurred is found in the '... beyond what we know ...' Beyond what we know for sure.

Good to know that we evolved from something other than the Ape and Monkey. I think I said "Maybe Adam and Eve were Apes ..." IF that were true then we'd evolve from ape and sons of god (gen 6). Or maybe only Adam was ape or Eve was. Maybe Adam and Eve were fictional characters created by smart Apes. I know what I know and from where humans came from is contained beyond that body of 'know'.

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Being unsure is just as bad as actively disbelieving. Evolution is so well established that to be unsure of whether the theory is sound is like being unsure of gravity. I also put Big Bang theory in that category, although it doesn't seem the draw the controversy like evolution does.

Being unsure is simply being questioning, or admitting that maybe someone doesn't have enough information to make a valid determination.

Evolution causes controversy because it grates on the vanity of certain people. Some people are too egotistical to believe that humans evolved from what they consider to be lower/lesser forms of life. Hence, the ridiculous proclamation of "I refuse to believe that we evolved from monkeys." Some people are just stupid that way.

I agree, it depends on the Inelligent Design proponent. In all cases, intelligent Design is in opposition of the science behind the Theory of Natural Selection.

Some ID supporters, (Michael Behe) accept that generally Natural Selection is the engine driving evolution, but insist that some evolutionary events just can't be explained by random mutations and natural selection, so they have to invent a belief that some Designer steps in every once in a while and tweaks the process to keep it going. Unfortunately for them, all their examples of events that could not possibly occur through natural selection keep getting disproven. Some Intelligent Design supporters, (Phillip Johnson, William Dembski), are put off from Natural Selection for philosophical reasons having nothing to do with science and make outlandish claims (both about Intelligent Design and Natural Selection), that have no grounding in science (or reality).

There is a separate religious belief that a god might have set up the universe and let evolution do its thing in each biosphere, either knowing what would happen from His, or Her or their, vantage of immortality outside space and time or not caring about it, in any event. However, that belief is better known as Theistic Evolution, not Intelligent Design which is anti-scientific.

The opponents of evolutionary science, have a philosophical opposition to the theory that is neither the result of "not thinking" nor of "being afraid of the truth," although there is an element of fear in some beliefs. Among Fundamentalist Christians, (and some Jews and Muslims), the opposition is based on firm belief in one interpretation of the Bible that requires the direct intervention of God for the creation of humans, with all the other aspects of abiogensis and evolution simply proceeding from that starting point. Others, not necessarily prompted by religious beliefs, simply see the amazing interactions of life on earth as being far too complex to allow for them to have arisen through a series of accidents or mutations.

Most Catholic scholars recognized the heliocentric system along with Galileo and the formal opposition to the theory, once Galileo's errors were corrected, was dropped in the eighteenth century, although inertia left Galileo's books on the Index for another hundred years. As to Evolution, the RCC has accepted the Darwinian explanation since the 19th century, with the only proviso being that one should not infer a lack of God by accepting Darwin's theory.

 

[Schmide]

BMW540I6speed :thumbsup:

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: eskimospy

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

Man, that's a lot of willful ignorance.

It's also a stupid number someone pulled out of their ass. I was never polled. The vast majority of the country wasn't polled either.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: eskimospy

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

Man, that's a lot of willful ignorance.

It's also a stupid number someone pulled out of their ass. I was never polled. The vast majority of the country wasn't polled either.

So you don't believe in statistics?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
As someone who supports the theory of evolution, I would have no desire to see this film. Perhaps there are other reasons that no American distributor has signed up for the film - they know our tastes in film better. There are a LOT of foreign films which are downright excellent that never reach US shores. I'm not saying that this isn't a great film, just that attributing this solely to the anti-evolution crowd is incomplete.

we have anti-evolution billboards in my area to compete with the anti-abortion ones

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Being unsure is definitely better than simply disbelieving but I think it is still a powerful testament to how America views this issue that so many are still unsure, considering the overwhelming evidence.

I find it encouraging that so many no longer immediately attribute our existence to a god. Scientific truth is often slow to pervade our social fabric. The Theory of Evolution is making headway though. Even the Catholic Church no longer refutes it.

It's a process. Science vs. Religion has always been a slow slog.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Being unsure is definitely better than simply disbelieving but I think it is still a powerful testament to how America views this issue that so many are still unsure, considering the overwhelming evidence.

I find it encouraging that so many no longer immediately attribute our existence to a god. Scientific truth is often slow to pervade our social fabric. The Theory of Evolution is making headway though. Even the Catholic Church no longer refutes it.

It's a process. Science vs. Religion has always been a slow slog.

So true. Scientific truth is rather easy to get to. One needs only study the scientific method and experiment. One tires to keep one's emotional issues out of the process.

Religious truth is much more difficult. It can be arrived at only when one has eliminated emotional issues and since the emotional issue that everybody has and doesn't know they have is self hate, it's the last thing on earth anybody will tackle or allow into consciousness. Only a tiny number of people know anything at all about religion.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Michael Behe and 'irreducible complexity' was spanked in Kitzmiller v. Dover, and William Dembski is simply LOL loony.

Did anyone else get the 'Creationist' ad banner at the top of the page in this thread ?

I got Accuracy In Genesis and the Good News Magazine.


I guess I'm just lucky

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: eskimospy

only 39 per cent of Americans believe in the theory of evolution.

epic /facepalm

Man, that's a lot of willful ignorance.

It's also a stupid number someone pulled out of their ass. I was never polled. The vast majority of the country wasn't polled either.

So you don't believe in statistics?

n1

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I was talking to my roommate about early man (he is a genetics medical researcher) He was talking about how at one point in our history we were down to around 60 specimens. Thats insane. We were almost extinct.

Inbreeding...that explains so much about P&N...

Seriously, that's very interesting. Got a link?

 

[alien42]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I was talking to my roommate about early man (he is a genetics medical researcher) He was talking about how at one point in our history we were down to around 60 specimens. Thats insane. We were almost extinct.

Inbreeding...that explains so much about P&N...

Seriously, that's very interesting. Got a link?

you should read the book 'The Real Eve'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Oppenheimer

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: tk149

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01
I was talking to my roommate about early man (he is a genetics medical researcher) He was talking about how at one point in our history we were down to around 60 specimens. Thats insane. We were almost extinct.

Inbreeding...that explains so much about P&N...

Seriously, that's very interesting. Got a link?

http://growabrain.typepad.com/...orized/deliverance.jpg

 

[sandorski]

The solution to this situation seems pretty obvious. Get a "Creation" movie Poster, glue it to a stick, strap on your 6 Shooter, and stand outside a Theatre.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Great. Another misleading article so people can exclaim, 'Ha, them stoopid Amerikans is stoopid.'

Here's a link to the actual poll this claim is based on:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/114...Believe-Evolution.aspx

PRINCETON, NJ -- On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin's birth, a new Gallup Poll shows that only 39% of Americans say they "believe in the theory of evolution," while a quarter say they do not believe in the theory, and another 36% don't have an opinion either way. These attitudes are strongly related to education and, to an even greater degree, religiosity.

So only 25% do not believe in the theory. Others haven't decided either way. A bit different from what the article implies.

It has been sold in almost every territory around the world, from Australia to Scandinavia.

Yeah. I bet this is going to be a huge hit in Yemen and the rest of the ME.

:roll:

Well, those on the fence are either ignorant or uneducated so that doesn't help much and are you seriously trying to make the argument that "at least we're better than the ME"? Because that would be a pretty lousy argument.

I'm fairly sure there are lots of much better comparisons that you could make than that, including the UK.

Maybe those on the fence simply see a theory for what it is, a theory?

I did not expect you not to know the difference between a theory as it's used in everyday conversation and a scientific theory.

You start with a hypotheis and if it stands the testing it eventually becomes a scientific theory, then you try to falsify it forever, it never upgrades to a law, it will never become anything but a scientific theory. That doesn't mean it's not a fact, just like gravity is a fact, so is evolution, the scientific theories merely try to explain how.

So how come we don't hear anything about "intelligent falling" even though the scientific theory of evolution is way more robust than the scientific theory of gravity? Simple, religious ideas get in the way of proper education of the scientific theory of evolution simply because it contradics Genesis as it's literally written, well that and denial or unwillingness to even hear about it because of the above.

You don't "believe" in a scientific theory, you either know it or you don't.

So we're a bit ahead of the UK producing films on the particular subject.

Acutally, what i meant was that you should compare the numbers to the UK, i bet they are fairly similar. Scandinavia is probably 10-20 years ahead of our nations in that regard.

However.... producing films? This thread is about the movie "Creation" a British film about Charles Darwin.