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Crazy UHP Tasers speeder

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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: manowar821

What exactly do you do, Mr. "Cadet"?
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he is a fresh cop from school...We had a discussion where he believes that when a cop is being fired at his accuracy should go way down...my argument is a cop should be conditioned to be able to handle that pressure and fighting that to get the assailant down as quickly as possible works a lot better than prolonging a firefight with bad shots.

Your accuracy shouldn't be that affected just because someone also has a gun.

The problem with this driver though was I believe he felt endanger/threatened by the cop. If I felt I was possibly going to get shot anyway I'd take my chances running.
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Dude, if you're going to post stuff from other threads and PMs, at least get it right.

With the way you twist words, you should consider being a lawyer.
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We were talking about Columbine's highly accurate shots were just due to them firing at kids under desks. I countered and said not all of them were hiding and were moving while the shooters were moving.

You kept going on that when someone is shooting back at you, you can't expect to be accuarate.

That works for Joe Homeowner most of the time, not what an LEO should expect. If LEO / Military had a problem firing back when their 'target' was doing the same....it'd be a massacre.
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I still maintain my opinion that if someone was shooting back at them, they wouldn't have been as successful. Perhaps I am mistaken. However, this is a discussion for another thread.

Originally posted by: gophins72
do you guys think the growing movements to ban tasers in the US will be successful?
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No.
 
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Let me remind you all who are supporting cops under any circumstances this: the police is there to "protect and serve". If cops tell you they don't profile they're lying to you. A college student with a chick probably wasn't much of a "threat". The guy was stupid for trying to argue with the cop (you do that in the courtroom, never question the authority in these types of situations), but the cop tasered him on the side of the freeway, with cars running by, without ANY REGARD WHATSOEVER to his safety. What if a car had blow-out and ran over the guy?

I haven't had many bad experiences with cops myself, and I do believe that a lot of them are good people. With that said, there are also a lot that have power trips. You're lying to yourself if you think police officers are infallible and they're always right.
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Their job is to protect and serve... why make their job more difficult by being an asshat and walking the fine line between upset citizen that poses no threat, and upset citizen with a knife who will slit your throat if you turn your back to him?
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Something both you guys should know: The police have no legal obligation to protect citizens. While it may occur, it is by no means required. The Supreme Court made this rather clear.

Their only true job is to enforce laws.
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yeap. the police around here even took "to protect and serve" off all cards, cars, etc.



anymore they are more to provide income for the city/state and clean up after something happens. seems the jov of police officer has changed in the last 20 years.


 
Originally posted by: gophins72
do you guys think the growing movements to ban tasers in the US will be successful?
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I'm sure it will because it's SO much better to have the cop put a couple of 9mm or .40's into you rather than zap you into submission...
 
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: gophins72
do you guys think the growing movements to ban tasers in the US will be successful?
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I'm sure it will because it's SO much better to have the cop put a couple of 9mm or .40's into you rather than zap you into submission...
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Problem is that happened before, thats why tazers came to be. Of course with tazers you have a living person who can say NO this is what happened. With bullets you only get the cops story. Of course now with video cameras that is changing more and more. Like the cop that was caught by a kid saying he could make charges up etc...

I think tazers should still be used but cops should face much harser punishment if used when they are not needed.
 
As an attorney I can say that depending on which state you are in, the cop could
have been sued for violating the civil rights of the guy when he asked him to step
out of the car for refusing to sign the speeding ticket. In some states, speeding
is not a criminal offense, so the officer cannot make a custodial arrest in such
a case nor can they legally arrest you for failing to sign the ticket under State Law.
In other states such as Texas, where I believe speeding is still a misdemeanor they can jail you for speeding. Under Federal law, the police CAN make a custodial arrest
for an infraction due to the 2002 Supreme Court case "Atwater vs. Lago Vista, Texas"

We have lost two cops this year alone in our town for violating the law. It is very
possible to pull people out of the profession based on improper acts. They are
both convicted felons now, and they will never be able to be cops again unless
pardoned for the offenses.

Tasers can kill people who have heart problems by the way... and I also believe
that they should not be allowed by criminal or police.





 
Originally posted by: mindunder36
As an attorney I can say that depending on which state you are in, the cop could
have been sued for violating the civil rights of the guy when he asked him to step
out of the car for refusing to sign the speeding ticket. In some states, speeding
is not a criminal offense, so the officer cannot make a custodial arrest in such
a case nor can they legally arrest you for failing to sign the ticket under State Law.
In other states such as Texas, where I believe speeding is still a misdemeanor they can jail you for speeding. Under Federal law, the police CAN make a custodial arrest
for an infraction due to the 2002 Supreme Court case "Atwater vs. Lago Vista, Texas"

We have lost two cops this year alone in our town for violating the law. It is very
possible to pull people out of the profession based on improper acts. They are
both convicted felons now, and they will never be able to be cops again unless
pardoned for the offenses.

Tasers can kill people who have heart problems by the way... and I also believe
that they should not be allowed by criminal or police.
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What Eastern European country are you an attorney in?
 
Originally posted by: RedRooster
Not knowing the full story or reading this thread, I'm siding with the cop.
That kid was ridiculous.
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I watched the video, didn't read the whole thread (I've read enough of them to know the predictable responses).

Driver is pulled over and ignores directions from officer, arguing. Driver gets pulled out, continues to ignore directions from officer. Driver gets tased.

Girlfriend's lucky she wasn't tased/drawn on/cuffed, too. For all the officer knew, when she was getting out of her car, she could have had a gun with her and was coming to kill him to protect the 12 kilos of cocaine under the spare tire.

It happens all the time and too many people here resent the cops for acting with extreme caution. I don't get how so many people can fail to empathize with the situation.
 
Originally posted by: mindunder36
As an attorney I can say that depending on which state you are in, the cop could
have been sued for violating the civil rights of the guy when he asked him to step
out of the car for refusing to sign the speeding ticket. In some states, speeding
is not a criminal offense, so the officer cannot make a custodial arrest in such
a case nor can they legally arrest you for failing to sign the ticket under State Law.
In other states such as Texas, where I believe speeding is still a misdemeanor they can jail you for speeding. Under Federal law, the police CAN make a custodial arrest
for an infraction due to the 2002 Supreme Court case "Atwater vs. Lago Vista, Texas"

We have lost two cops this year alone in our town for violating the law. It is very
possible to pull people out of the profession based on improper acts. They are
both convicted felons now, and they will never be able to be cops again unless
pardoned for the offenses.

Tasers can kill people who have heart problems by the way... and I also believe
that they should not be allowed by criminal or police.
Click to expand...

Fail.

Let's refer to http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations.html:

If you are cited, try to remain calm and listen to what the trooper is telling you. Remember that by signing the citation you ARE NOT admitting guilt, it is just a promise to contact the court. If you don't sign, state law does give the trooper the authority to place you under arrest and transport you to jail or to the court to post bail.
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Also, whether something is criminal or does not necessarily determine whether or not an officer may make a custodial arrest.
 
Guys, he was ignoring a direct order to turn around, not to mention the whole pocket thing. Maybe he was a little quick, but it is a more then justified use of a taser...
 
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: mindunder36
As an attorney I can say that depending on which state you are in, the cop could
have been sued for violating the civil rights of the guy when he asked him to step
out of the car for refusing to sign the speeding ticket. In some states, speeding
is not a criminal offense, so the officer cannot make a custodial arrest in such
a case nor can they legally arrest you for failing to sign the ticket under State Law.
In other states such as Texas, where I believe speeding is still a misdemeanor they can jail you for speeding. Under Federal law, the police CAN make a custodial arrest
for an infraction due to the 2002 Supreme Court case "Atwater vs. Lago Vista, Texas"

We have lost two cops this year alone in our town for violating the law. It is very
possible to pull people out of the profession based on improper acts. They are
both convicted felons now, and they will never be able to be cops again unless
pardoned for the offenses.

Tasers can kill people who have heart problems by the way... and I also believe
that they should not be allowed by criminal or police.
Click to expand...

Fail.

Let's refer to http://publicsafety.utah.gov/Citations/citations.html:

If you are cited, try to remain calm and listen to what the trooper is telling you. Remember that by signing the citation you ARE NOT admitting guilt, it is just a promise to contact the court. If you don't sign, state law does give the trooper the authority to place you under arrest and transport you to jail or to the court to post bail.
Click to expand...

Also, whether something is criminal or does not necessarily determine whether or not an officer may make a custodial arrest.
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totally owned. Mindunder you suck at lawyering.

 
Originally posted by: MartyMcFly3
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: MartyMcFly3
For all of you anti-taser people: I've seen tasers SAVE lives. Officers being put in situations where deadly force is more than justified, but they chose not to go that route and use a taser instead. It's easy to sit at home and complain about cops using tasers when you only see the bad uses of them.
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Yes jackass, a taser is for use in situations where a person is threatening the life of someone, and where deadly-force would be appropriate. Tasers are not cop-outs for lazy pigs.

You need to learn what the fuck kind of situation a taser is supposed to be used in.

These taser-happy cops are lazy sacks of crap.
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First of all, way to resort to insults on a simple point I was making. Real mature.
Second, I've been trained to know when a taser is supposed to be used... have you?

A taser is used for *LESS LETHAL* force. If you can use a baton in a situation, you can use a taser. According to you, you can only use a taser when you can use a gun. This mentality is wrong.

Taken from one dept's policy (Marquette County to be exact) *most departmental policies read the same*

Personnel may use an approved Taser when:
? they are required to use physical force to take a person into
custody,
? to protect himself or herself from physical assault,
? to protect a subject from injuring himself/herself or others, and
? against animals who pose a serious threat towards the deputy or
others.

As this guy WAS resisting by not complying with the officer's orders (often known as verbalization) he was in his right to use a taser on the subject. Physical force. That doesn't mean shoot the guy. Baton is a use of physical force. Pepper Spray is a use of physical force. Now did I ever say that all of that made the cop less of a dick for helping create that situation? No. In fact I called the cop a dick as well. However, if the speeder complied and did what the officer said, then went through the court system like you are supposed to in order to complain about the officer, the situation would never have happened.

Again, there's a time and place to argue your side and the side of a street is not the place to do it.
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i was expecting a response to your facts on training and i was surprised to find none. either two things happened, the idiots who were spouting out crap don't believe you, or they are so traumatized by your facts on when a tazer can be used they are sitting in the corner with their blankie sucking their thumb.

 
LOL, remember those dateless wonders from High School who were always getting picked on, well look at him now baby!

I'd like to stick that taser down that pigs throat and have at it! Anyways this guy should be getting canned asap however, some how they never do.

On another note, what ever happened to order of force? I guess police do not practice this anymore since the taser is now part of there arsenal
 
Originally posted by: pulsedrive
You know what, Have ANY of you ever BEEN a cop???

When you pull over someone for a traffic stop and the are acting like that much of an ass and then start to reach into their pockets, you have to assume the worst and protect yourself. Because if you don't then you most likely end up dead or wounded. Was the cop a little hasty to jump to using the taser, yes, but was it completely unjustified, absolutely not. Having worked as a Sheriff's Deputy for over a year and a half while I was finishing up College, you can't know what is going through that cop's mind unless you have been in those types of situations. Was the cop a bit of a dick, yes, but then again, this dumbass driver JUST passed the 40 MPH sign and completely failed to follow this cops instructions. Also the fact that this trooper had no backup makes this even more justified because it is REALLY hard to keep yourself safe solo.
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Well, I hear you, but don't agree. Cops have agreed to take the risk associated with being a cop and really should never be the one to strike first, the motorist never agreed to put his or her life on the line at the whim of a cowardly police officer. Before any one says tazer's are non-lethal - tell that to all those people who have died after being tazered. Their number is higher then you think - more people hav died in the last two years as a result of being tazered by cops than have died from bullet wounds from cops.
 
Originally posted by: Baloo
Originally posted by: pulsedrive
You know what, Have ANY of you ever BEEN a cop???

When you pull over someone for a traffic stop and the are acting like that much of an ass and then start to reach into their pockets, you have to assume the worst and protect yourself. Because if you don't then you most likely end up dead or wounded. Was the cop a little hasty to jump to using the taser, yes, but was it completely unjustified, absolutely not. Having worked as a Sheriff's Deputy for over a year and a half while I was finishing up College, you can't know what is going through that cop's mind unless you have been in those types of situations. Was the cop a bit of a dick, yes, but then again, this dumbass driver JUST passed the 40 MPH sign and completely failed to follow this cops instructions. Also the fact that this trooper had no backup makes this even more justified because it is REALLY hard to keep yourself safe solo.
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Well, I hear you, but don't agree. Cops have agreed to take the risk associated with being a cop and really should never be the one to strike first, the motorist never agreed to put his or her life on the line at the whim of a cowardly police officer. Before any one says tazer's are non-lethal - tell that to all those people who have died after being tazered. Their number is higher then you think - more people hav died in the last two years as a result of being tazered by cops than have died from bullet wounds from cops.
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It's called excited delirium. Tazer has never been successfully sued in court nor has it been found to be cause of death. Of course, you would know nothing of tasers or excited delirium because you are talking out of your ass.
 
Originally posted by: Baloo
Originally posted by: pulsedrive
You know what, Have ANY of you ever BEEN a cop???

When you pull over someone for a traffic stop and the are acting like that much of an ass and then start to reach into their pockets, you have to assume the worst and protect yourself. Because if you don't then you most likely end up dead or wounded. Was the cop a little hasty to jump to using the taser, yes, but was it completely unjustified, absolutely not. Having worked as a Sheriff's Deputy for over a year and a half while I was finishing up College, you can't know what is going through that cop's mind unless you have been in those types of situations. Was the cop a bit of a dick, yes, but then again, this dumbass driver JUST passed the 40 MPH sign and completely failed to follow this cops instructions. Also the fact that this trooper had no backup makes this even more justified because it is REALLY hard to keep yourself safe solo.
Click to expand...

Well, I hear you, but don't agree. Cops have agreed to take the risk associated with being a cop and really should never be the one to strike first, the motorist never agreed to put his or her life on the line at the whim of a cowardly police officer. Before any one says tazer's are non-lethal - tell that to all those people who have died after being tazered. Their number is higher then you think - more people hav died in the last two years as a result of being tazered by cops than have died from bullet wounds from cops.
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Any facts to back those numbers up or are you just going on the number of youtube videos you watch?

And the argument that "they agreed to the risk" is complete BS. Yes they agreed to it, but they also have the right to ensure their own fucking safety. Lil' tip, don't walk with toward a cop while reaching in your pocket. If you want to fight/contest shit, a traffic stop is NOT the place to do it.
 
I agree that he shouldn't have been fidgeting in his pocket but it's clear in the video that he was not a threat. What did the officer think would happen? If the driver was going to shoot the cop, he would have done it when he got out of the car and the officer did not EVEN NOTICE. In fact the officer was busy putting down his clipboard on the hood of the cruiser. Furthermore, one of the news anchors brings up an interesting point. She asked the victim why he walked away. He said he was scared. I really think the reason he did it was to show no harm. Who shoots an unarmed man in the back? I don't know of a better way to show non-aggression. Also, everyone says he was no compliant and he was dumb for not listening to the cop. From a practical standpoint, this is true. But from right vs wrong, I don't place any fault on him. Where do we draw the line? What about the cop that "commanded" the paralyzed man to get out of his chair? What if the cop started telling the wife to strip? I know, big "what if scenario" but citizens have rights too.
 
Originally posted by: sygyzy
I agree that he shouldn't have been fidgeting in his pocket but it's clear in the video that he was not a threat. What did the officer think would happen? If the driver was going to shoot the cop, he would have done it when he got out of the car and the officer did not EVEN NOTICE. In fact the officer was busy putting down his clipboard on the hood of the cruiser. Furthermore, one of the news anchors brings up an interesting point. She asked the victim why he walked away. He said he was scared. I really think the reason he did it was to show no harm. Who shoots an unarmed man in the back? I don't know of a better way to show non-aggression. Also, everyone says he was no compliant and he was dumb for not listening to the cop. From a practical standpoint, this is true. But from right vs wrong, I don't place any fault on him. Where do we draw the line? What about the cop that "commanded" the paralyzed man to get out of his chair? What if the cop started telling the wife to strip? I know, big "what if scenario" but citizens have rights too.
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See thats the point the majority of people don't realize. You CANNOT assume "hey this guy isn't a threat". Why would have shot him while getting out of the car? You can't claim that as what "would have happened".

You don't have time to consider "hey this kid probably isn't a threat, its no big deal that he is walking with his back to me, hand in pocket." They are trained to look for movements that can be threatening and react. That is it, theres no time to sit and weigh 10 different "what ifs" before reacting.
 
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