Question CPU underperforming in games

[XANtheman]

Hello I have recently upgraded my CPU from a R3 1200 to a 3300x. Complete specs are as follows-

CPU- R3 3300X
RAM - 2x8 GB DDR4 2400MHz in dual channel (CMK8GX4M1A2400C16R)
GPU- MSI GTX 1650 D6 AERO ITX OCV1
PSU- CX 450
MOTHERBOARD- MSI B450M PRO VDH MAX (BIOS 7A38vB4 - AGESA 1.0.0.4)

My older CPU was bottlenecking my GPU in games like Cyberpunk , metro exodus, FC Primal, so I upgraded to a R3 3300X. I saw benchmarks on youtube and was able to confirm that R3 1200 should be the bottleneck in my system (see this video-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L33n3TdSjNk&t=3213s). In the video the GTX 1650 clearly manages above 30 at 1080p ultra most of the time in the train sequence with a R3 3100 whereas my R3 1200 would drop to mid 20's in that sequence. The problem is that even after the upgrade I am dropping to mid 20's. IMO RAM should not be a bottleneck with GPU of this caliber at 1080p ultra settings( NVIDIA hairworks disabled and tessellation off in metro exodus).

I tried the following fixes-
1. Fresh install of windows 10 to windows 21H2
2. Installing the latest chipset drivers and Nvidia Geforce drivers
3. Clearing CMOS
4. Disabling windows game mode and switching to high performance power plan.
5. Disabling all power saving features in BIOS, maxing out cTDP limit
6. Reseating RAM
7. Trying latest BIOS updates
8. using max performance in Nvidia control panel.

At this point I have no further ideas to troubleshoot this issue. Also if it is genuinely the memory then that is really disappointing in terms of compatibility of this platform. If you guys have a solution please do post it.

 

[UsandThem]

You're intentionally deviating from the discussion on whether the 1650 can achieve ~60 FPS at 1080p ultra settings. TPU shows that you can. It doesn't matter if it has 4GB VRAM. Because in the second link I posted VRAM usage is less than 4 GB at 1080p.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-geforce-gtx-1650-gddr6

They specifically mentioned low FPS in Metro Exodus at high/ultra settings in 1080P in their OP. With their system having a HDD on top of it, it's perfectly understandable they are getting a little lower than what Tom's did in their review of the GTX 1650 DDR6 GPU review. If they dropped down to medium settings, they likely would be fine (beer money, champagne taste is the issue at play here).

These results were with an Intel 9900k, DDR4 3200, and a NVMe drive BTW:

 

[tamz_msc]

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-geforce-gtx-1650-gddr6

They specifically mentioned low FPS in Metro Exodus at high/ultra settings in 1080P in their OP. With their system having a HDD on top of it, it's perfectly understandable they are getting a little lower than what Tom's did in their review of the GTX 1650 DDR6 GPU review. If they dropped down to medium settings, they likely would be fine (beer money, champagne taste is the issue at play here).

These results were with an Intel 9900k, DDR4 3200, and a NVMe drive BTW:

View attachment 57371

View attachment 57373

Did you not read the part where I mentioned that Anand and Tom's test the in-game benchmark, which performs much worse than the actual game?

 

[UsandThem]

Did you not read the part where I mentioned that Anand and Tom's test the in-game benchmark, which performs much worse than the actual game?

I did.

And I still posted what I wanted to post.

 

[tamz_msc]

I did.

And I still posted what I wanted to post.

Then your post is completely irrelevant to the question of whether the 1650 can do ~60 FPS 1080p ultra.

 

[In2Photos]

Then your post is completely irrelevant to the question of whether the 1650 can do ~60 FPS 1080p ultra.

If the benchmark can barely do 30 I don't think in game will do 60 though. Especially with lesser parts in the rest of the system.

 

[UsandThem]

Then your post is completely irrelevant to the question of whether the 1650 can do ~60 FPS 1080p ultra.

In that case, so is your opinion.

So there.

 

[XANtheman]

I think I blindly followed a youtube video. I tried overclocking memory to 3200 cl 16 and I have a wd green ssd on which I will try to install metro exodus. Memory OC definitely didn't help. I still have one general question- is 45W package power (max in metro exodus not stress test) with a r3 3300x normal? I know it is a 1650 but 45 W is quite low. Also my mobo has set procODT to 60 and I read on GitHub that 3rd gen runs at a lower value

 

[UsandThem]

If the benchmark can barely do 30 I don't think in game will do 60 though. Especially with lesser parts in the rest of the system.

Especially with a 4 core slower gaming CPU, slower RAM, and on a freaking HDD.

Since tamz_msc is so confident in the GTX 1650 and its ability to game perfectly on high/ultra settings, he can work with the OP to fix his issues.

 

[Shmee]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, is the PSU. How old is that CX450? Though the system shouldn't have be using much power, to my knowledge the CX450 series were not known to be the best quality by any means, and age can make that worse of course. I wonder if that could be unstable in some way? I doubt it, but if the age is creeping up there, something to keep in mind.

 

[XANtheman]

Especially with a 4 core slower gaming CPU, slower RAM, and on a freaking HDD.

Since tamz_msc is so confident in the GTX 1650 and its ability to game perfectly on high/ultra settings, he can work with the OP to fix his issues.

Are you crazy or something ? It is the fastest 4 core, do you want me to pair the 1650 with a 5950x and how can storage affect fps it can only effect load times. I don't think that you read my comments properly I ssaid I don't want to play at ultra, I just wanted my performance to match with a identical GPU as in the video

 

[In2Photos]

Are you crazy or something ? It is the fastest 4 core, do you want me to pair the 1650 with a 5950x and how can storage affect fps it can only effect load times. I don't think that you read my comments properly I ssaid I don't want to play at ultra, I just wanted my performance to match with a identical GPU as in the video

That's the thing though. If you want to compare apples to apples then the whole bushel has to be the same. The only thing in that comparison that matches is the GPU. Everything else is different. How can you expect the same results?

 

[XANtheman]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, is the PSU. How old is that CX450? Though the system shouldn't have be using much power, to my knowledge the CX450 series were not known to be the best quality by any means, and age can make that worse of course. I wonder if that could be unstable in some way? I doubt it, but if the age is creeping up there, something to keep in mind.

Any way to confirm that my PSU is faulty? Hwinfo shows a stable 12V reading

 

[XANtheman]

That's the thing though. If you want to compare apples to apples then the whole bushel has to be the same. The only thing in that comparison that matches is the GPU. Everything else is different. How can you expect the same results?

I am expecting same performance because the components on which performance depends are faster or identical. RAM OC didn't help why are you guys repeating the same thing again and again?

 

[UsandThem]

Are you crazy or something ? It is the fastest 4 core, do you want me to pair the 1650 with a 5950x and how can storage affect fps it can only effect load times. I don't think that you read my comments properly I ssaid I don't want to play at ultra, I just wanted my performance to match with a identical GPU as in the video

Yes, I'm the crazy one.

I am expecting same performance because the components on which performance depends are faster or identical. RAM OC didn't help why are you guys repeating the same thing again and again?

Because you don't listen and keep asking the same thing over and over and over.

Good luck with your high/ultra gaming......I'm departing from this mess.

 

[igor_kavinski]

and how can storage affect fps it can only effect load times.

If the game is loading or streaming textures/assets while playing, then that will affect the fps. Also, there's a review out there showing how using an SSD instead of an HDD helped an old GPU gain some fps. Don't ask me for the link. It's not easy to find.

This is somewhat related: https://www.newegg.com/insider/can-solid-state-drive-ssd-increase-gaming-performance/

How SSDs Impact Gaming - Intel

Learn how using a solid state drive (SSD) for gaming can result in faster load times and an improved gaming experience.

www.intel.com

Smoother gameplay. Many games perform thousands of tiny read and write operations as you play, which can result in hundreds of megabytes of data transfers. Upgrading to an SSD won’t increase your FPS, but it can result in an improvement in some open-world titles with game engines that load in new areas and textures as you play. On HDDs, the seek time of the arm’s read/write head and the rotational latency of the magnetic platter below it create the latency behind these hitches. By comparison, the greater bandwidth and reduced latency of SSDs help them rapidly access the requested data and avoid hitching.

 

[XANtheman]

If the game is loading or streaming textures/assets while playing, then that will affect the fps. Also, there's a review out there showing how using an SSD instead of an HDD helped an old GPU gain some fps. Don't ask me for the link. It's not easy to find.

This is somewhat related: https://www.newegg.com/insider/can-solid-state-drive-ssd-increase-gaming-performance/

That's understandable for a console but I will still try your suggestion tomorrow on my PC

 

[In2Photos]

why are you guys repeating the same thing again and again?

You're right, I'll start banging my head against the wall instead.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This thread delivers. I got a hearty LULZ at the very next post after mine, being another Scooby Doo clue. Uses an HDD, then later, we unmask our next bad guy - the WD green. From the Gamers Nexus breakdown -

"WD Green's primary advantages are regarded as:

• Higher capacity at a more affordable price.
• Lower power consumption.
• Useful as cheap, archival storage.
• Quieter.

Its disadvantages are:

• Slower speeds that are inadvisable for primary and gaming HDD usage.
• Slower wake and seek times.
• Lower reliability over its life.
• 2-Year warranty."

That was from way back in 2014, and it was already advised not to use Green for gaming.

 

[Thunder 57]

That comparison to the 6500 XT is irrelevant. 1650 released in 2020, 6500 XT in 2022. The market dynamic has changed.

You're intentionally deviating from the discussion on whether the 1650 can achieve ~60 FPS at 1080p ultra settings. TPU shows that you can. It doesn't matter if it has 4GB VRAM. Because in the second link I posted VRAM usage is less than 4 GB at 1080p.

I wasn't trying to compare it to the 6500X which I also called a turd. I was pointing out that in that selection of games the 5500X gained 20% going from 4GB to 8GB VRAM.

The TPU link you used shows 43.7FPS. That is not quite 60FPS. Moreover, their test system is better everywhere else as well. Also, two can play at that game. Cyberpunk, another game listed, required 5605MB of VRAM at 1920x1080p.

 

[eek2121]

Man, a lot of folks trying to point fingers, however, most are pointing at themselves.

The hard drive combined with slow memory is absolutely the culprit.

When you run out of VRAM, the GPU will reach out to whatever resources are cached in main memory. This is the first bottleneck. If the resources aren’t found there, it will reach out to the storage location of the game in question. Most WD “Green” hard drives spin at “around” 5900rpm. Ultra textures will take several seconds to load on a device this slow, causing frame drops. In addition, the 1650 is a slouch to begin with. It is slower than even the 6500XT. If you want to play on ultra settings of ANY game, you need large/fast amounts of the following:

1. VRAM
2. PC Memory
3. Storage

The further you get down on that list, the more you will suffer. 8gb of gddr6, 16gb of DDR4 3200, and a decent SSD is what you should shoot for.

If the CPU and GPU are not bottlenecked and aren’t hitting thermal limits, your issue is absolutely IO.

BTW, switching to another vendor for the CPU won’t fix this issue, neither will switching GPUs with similar memory configs in most cases.

 

[XANtheman]

Man, a lot of folks trying to point fingers, however, most are pointing at themselves.

The hard drive combined with slow memory is absolutely the culprit.

When you run out of VRAM, the GPU will reach out to whatever resources are cached in main memory. This is the first bottleneck. If the resources aren’t found there, it will reach out to the storage location of the game in question. Most WD “Green” hard drives spin at “around” 5900rpm. Ultra textures will take several seconds to load on a device this slow, causing frame drops. In addition, the 1650 is a slouch to begin with. It is slower than even the 6500XT. If you want to play on ultra settings of ANY game, you need large/fast amounts of the following:

1. VRAM
2. PC Memory
3. Storage

The further you get down on that list, the more you will suffer. 8gb of gddr6, 16gb of DDR4 3200, and a decent SSD is what you should shoot for.

If the CPU and GPU are not bottlenecked and aren’t hitting thermal limits, your issue is absolutely IO.

BTW, switching to another vendor for the CPU won’t fix this issue, neither will switching GPUs with similar memory configs in most cases.

The fact is most of the people don't read comments properly. First of all I said wd greed SSD NOT HDD. Secondly at 1080p you don't require more than 4gb in games other than call of duty. And 4gb will be sufficient till companies stop releasing 4gb cards. Lastly memory doesn't do redacted in my case as I showed by ocing my RAM. And if no-one has a solution ( I will whatever you suggested so far) for my problem stop replying. If anyone has some experience then you are welcome. What I did over estimate is that anandtech forums has experienced people but it is actually the opposite


no profanity allowed in the tech forums


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[wilds]

The fact is most of the people don't read comments properly. First of all I said wd greed SSD NOT HDD. Secondly at 1080p you don't require more than 4gb in games other than call of duty. And 4gb will be sufficient till companies stop releasing 4gb cards. Lastly memory doesn't do boat in my case as I showed by ocing my RAM. And if no-one has a solution ( I will whatever you suggested so far) for my problem stop replying. If anyone has some experience then you are welcome. What I did over estimate is that anandtech forums has experienced people but it is actually the opposite

I would highly recommend just running the game with Rivatuner; or with Windows 10+, you can monitor your GPU usage from task manager. Go run Metro's benchmark while task manager is open, and if you are experiencing under ~99% GPU usage, you are CPU limited by low core count or by slow memory.

You have a B450 motherboard. That should support the Ryzen 5600X with high speed, low latency DDR4. That is a huge performance boost in CPU limited scenarios. My friends with Ryzen 5600x and 5800x easily achieve double the framerate I do in CPU limited games; but they both have DDR4 3200+ at C16. One of them had a Ryzen 3700X before, and got around the same framerate I did.

It was questionable to buy a 4GB card in 2015, and this forum debated that extensively. Quite fun reading. This forum has helped me a lot. Many of the same people who helped me are still around helping you!

 

[epsilon84]

The fact is most of the people don't read comments properly. First of all I said wd greed SSD NOT HDD. Secondly at 1080p you don't require more than 4gb in games other than call of duty. And 4gb will be sufficient till companies stop releasing 4gb cards. Lastly memory doesn't do shit in my case as I showed by ocing my RAM. And if no-one has a solution ( I will whatever you suggested so far) for my problem stop replying. If anyone has some experience then you are welcome. What I did over estimate is that anandtech forums has experienced people but it is actually the opposite

Actually, there are a heap of games that struggle with 4GB VRAM these days, even at 1080P. Using lower quality settings or textures often help, but you probably already know that.

If VRAM isn't the issue in the particular game, then the actual GPU probably is. Try overclocking your GPU by 10% and see if you get any increase in performance. If the fps is exactly the same then your bottleneck is elsewhere. If the fps increases a bit then it's your GPU that is the limiting factor.

 

[Thunder 57]

The fact is most of the people don't read comments properly. First of all I said wd greed SSD NOT HDD. Secondly at 1080p you don't require more than 4gb in games other than call of duty. And 4gb will be sufficient till companies stop releasing 4gb cards. Lastly memory doesn't do redacted in my case as I showed by ocing my RAM. And if no-one has a solution ( I will whatever you suggested so far) for my problem stop replying. If anyone has some experience then you are welcome. What I did over estimate is that anandtech forums has experienced people but it is actually the opposite


no profanity allowed in the tech forums


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

I should tell you to... go elsewhere for help (sanitized version). Most at Anandtech are pretty good at what they do. Apparently you didn't read my posts. Can you read properly? I gave different advice than others and was even told by another I was wrong when the data he supplied said otherwise. Back to my original point, here is what I posted:

Well it seems you haven taken some advice and now think the GPU may be the issue. Personally I don't think the DDR4-2400 is the problem. The CPU should work well enough too. I would guess the HDD or 1650 is the problem. Any 4GB GPU these days is going to have a tough time in modern games at higher settings. Try searching for a guide like this. The better ones tell you if it affects CPU the most, GPU the most, or GPU memory the most.

Also, there have been more than enough people through here that claim a problem and end up blaming team red/green/blue. As soon as that happens, threads can derail quickly. I'm sure you're frustrated, but try to have a little patience before posting in haste.

Here's an image from Tomshardware from when they recently reviewed the 6500XT. They only tested seven games I guess because it is a turd, but just look at the difference between the 5500XT 8GB vs the 5500XT 4GB. It beats the 5500XT and 1650 Super by a pretty good margin considering the low-ish framerates.

Then I added this:

I wasn't trying to compare it to the 6500X which I also called a turd. I was pointing out that in that selection of games the 5500X gained 20% going from 4GB to 8GB VRAM.

The TPU link you used shows 43.7FPS. That is not quite 60FPS. Moreover, their test system is better everywhere else as well. Also, two can play at that game. Cyberpunk, another game listed, required 5605MB of VRAM at 1920x1080p.

So yes, some games do require more than 4GB of VRAM. I suggest that next time you upgrade, ask the community first if it will run what you want. I don't think anyone would say a 1650 was sufficient for Cyberpunk. GDDR6 or not, that isn't even a mid range video card. There is your problem. Will you accept that or just rage post more?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

First of all I said wd greed SSD NOT HDD.

So then which HDD is it?

I am using a HDD and the drop occur in other select sequences like storm sequence in the same level and taiga.

any way to verify through HWinfo, never saw HDD causing constant fps drops

I have a wd green ssd on which I will try to install metro exodus.

Stop playing the victim card. You come here with a combative attitude slinging mud = action meet reaction.

What I did over estimate is that anandtech forums has experienced people but it is actually the opposite

Just me baby, just me. The rest of these folks are good eggs and know their stuff. And you have a terrible way of expressing gratitude for the help they have thus far provided. They're welcome are they? How magnanimous of you to allow them to assist you with your derpery. I will leave you to it now. As you hit every point on my troll list already; which means I got BINGO!