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aceO07

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2000
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is nothing that can be done for Tax Year 2000. Paperwork can not be processed.
If you try to force the issue, Uncle may put you under a magnifing glass.

IF you wish to add a gift to your taxes as a seperate check, that is up to you.

hmm. Ok. So, I can't do anything. Is it a hiding game now? :confused: Seems so weird. I sent out my taxes today, so I guess it'd be even weirder to send them an envelope with a gift check now..?

This concept of statue of limitation is strange for me. The time is over for me to correct something that I did wrong... They can still do something to me if they find it. However, I can't fix it even though I know my mistake exists?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: aceO07
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
There is nothing that can be done for Tax Year 2000. Paperwork can not be processed.
If you try to force the issue, Uncle may put you under a magnifing glass.

IF you wish to add a gift to your taxes as a seperate check, that is up to you.

hmm. Ok. So, I can't do anything. Is it a hiding game now? :confused: Seems so weird. I sent out my taxes today, so I guess it'd be even weirder to send them an envelope with a gift check now..?

This concept of statue of limitation is strange for me. The time is over for me to correct something that I did wrong... They can still do something to me if they find it. However, I can't fix it even though I know my mistake exists?

They can not come after you. All is forgiven after 3 years unless they detect a pattern of fraud in 2001,2002,2003.
No hiding required.
If you wish, CPA, Alkemyst and myself are willing to ease your conscience via Paypal :D
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: aceO07
hmm. Ok. So, I can't do anything. Is it a hiding game now? :confused: Seems so weird. I sent out my taxes today, so I guess it'd be even weirder to send them an envelope with a gift check now..?

This concept of statue of limitation is strange for me. The time is over for me to correct something that I did wrong... They can still do something to me if they find it. However, I can't fix it even though I know my mistake exists?

It's a catch 22 now...should you force it they will more than likely pull an audit....audits suck, almost everyone has some sort of error. Then they pull penalites....you can't do anything past 3 years, however should they 'connect the dots' through your returns they can go back indefinitely....then again fees, penalities, etc.....

since you are past the three year mark chances are you got lucky.

&Aring;
 

aceO07

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2000
4,491
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76
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: aceO07
hmm. Ok. So, I can't do anything. Is it a hiding game now? :confused: Seems so weird. I sent out my taxes today, so I guess it'd be even weirder to send them an envelope with a gift check now..?

This concept of statue of limitation is strange for me. The time is over for me to correct something that I did wrong... They can still do something to me if they find it. However, I can't fix it even though I know my mistake exists?

It's a catch 22 now...should you force it they will more than likely pull an audit....audits suck, almost everyone has some sort of error. Then they pull penalites....you can't do anything past 3 years, however should they 'connect the dots' through your returns they can go back indefinitely....then again fees, penalities, etc.....

since you are past the three year mark chances are you got lucky.

&Aring;

Well, they know I made a mistake. They sent a letter a few years back, in 2001?. Even though they know AND I know, I can't do anything. Stranger and stranger.. :)

edit: oops, I made it seem like they didn't know in my previous posts. They DO know. So, I still can't do anything past 3 years huh?

edit: I was just looking at the instructions for the 2003 1040x, it has references to 2000 amendments in all the places it refers to 2003, 2002 and 2001. It seems like it should do it... I do remember that letter they sent a few years ago did say I had 3 years to do it.

Here's the link to the 1040x instructions. i1040x.pdf
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Since they know about it and have informed you, then you must file the 1040X for year 2000.

The three year limit no longer is valid.

You will also now get hit with penalties and interest for the delay. This will probably at least double the original mistake especially with such a long time frame.

Also, they will have you on their radar.

By not responding and also not yet filing your 2002 paperwork, you had better make 1000% (thousand) sure that every number is accurate. Symbolically, you have given the IRS the middle finger.

Your returns over the next few years will be flagged and any discrepencies or gray areas are going to trigger an internal IRS audit and potentially a face-2-face. The initial face-2-face will not be civil.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Your returns over the next few years will be flagged and any discrepencies or gray areas are going to trigger an internal IRS audit and potentially a face-2-face. The initial face-2-face will not be civil.

Yeah I have not had one of these yet, but I have known a few that had been audited....even for things that eventually got sorted out. A lot of times apparently they sound sort of friendly on the phone, giving you instructions what you will need and the misc details...however once face to face: Threats, fear, and tons of crap get thrown. Another thing is it seems almost random how they compute your penalities and even if that will be enough to have you covered.

I knew a guy that corrected a mistake made in his small business return that flagged an audit....he reported a mistake in the way he claimed depreciation or something to that effect and *paid* them about $3,000 back for this error.....shortly they contacted him for an audit.

This company was not profitable the first 3 years and he didn't even pay himself a dime, however on the first go around they said he needed to pay $10,000 for the error, but this may not be the full total. They were not sympathetic to him explaining that $10,000 that may or may not pay something off is hard to do (he had about that much liquid, but everything more was tied up in things that are hard to 'break' doing with the full amount would have been more practical, but they wanted the $10,000 first).

So going back and forth for the next few months they finally got him the full penalty....he paid them large checks in total 3 times and one final check of a smaller amount. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th checks were supposed to cover it all, but they kept coming back. When all was said and done his tax penalty was more than the first 3 years that his business made (BEFORE EXPENSES).

He now has a full-time accountant and gives up some deductions that just may flag an audit....

Once they know about your error they'd rather wait it out as each day is another dollar to them and you will have to pay it.

&Aring;
 

aceO07

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2000
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76
That's not what I wanted to hear. :( But I own up to my mistakes and will have to deal with the consequences.

Thanks guys.
 

Cat

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
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0
I should have read the entire thread first. :)
My father offered to do my taxes for me last year, but ended up not doing so. It's not a huge deal, since I didn't work much, and I'm pretty sure I am owed a refund. Will filing a 1040X for 2002 draw undue attention (and ire) from the IRS?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: Cat
I should have read the entire thread first. :)
My father offered to do my taxes for me last year, but ended up not doing so. It's not a huge deal, since I didn't work much, and I'm pretty sure I am owed a refund. Will filing a 1040X for 2002 draw undue attention (and ire) from the IRS?

1040X is only to correct an error in an existing return.

Just file the 2002 return by mail.
If Uncle owes you money, there will not be any problem.

If you owe $$, then pay what is calculated, and expect an letter from Uncle in 6 months stating that you now owe more money. Depending on the amound, it can either be a slap on the hand, or a bend over and take it like a man.
Uclcc will probalby keep a closer eye on you for a couple of years also.


IRS - FAQ - Late Filing
If you owe tax and don't file on time, the total late?filing penalty is usually four and one-half percent of the tax owed for each month, or part of a month, that your return is late and the tax is unpaid, up to five months. If your return is over 60 days late, the minimum penalty for late filing is the smaller of $100 or 100 percent of the tax owed.
 

Submit

Senior member
Jan 29, 2001
793
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0
Ok, here is my question, if my W-2 forms shows two employer ID's from different states, do I have to file with each state? The weird thing is I didn't start my new job in the second state until Jan 6, 04. I did have my last check send to the location in the new state. Also my State Wages from the first state are equal to my overall wages..

TIA
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Submit
Ok, here is my question, if my W-2 forms shows two employer ID's from different states, do I have to file with each state? The weird thing is I didn't start my new job in the second state until Jan 6, 04. I did have my last check send to the location in the new state. Also my State Wages from the first state are equal to my overall wages..

TIA

They probably updated your 'w-2' prior to the new year. However, you should not have to pay anything to any state you didn't live in during 2003. Next year you may have 5 days to file on for the old state.

&Aring;
 

Submit

Senior member
Jan 29, 2001
793
0
0
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Submit
Ok, here is my question, if my W-2 forms shows two employer ID's from different states, do I have to file with each state? The weird thing is I didn't start my new job in the second state until Jan 6, 04. I did have my last check send to the location in the new state. Also my State Wages from the first state are equal to my overall wages..

TIA

They probably updated your 'w-2' prior to the new year. However, you should not have to pay anything to any state you didn't live in during 2003. Next year you may have 5 days to file on for the old state.

&Aring;

My last day with company A was 12/27/03 and I started with company B on 1/6/04 .

The state income tax for the new state is about $17. Will this $17 carry over to the next year? Will I have to fill out any additional forms?
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Submit

The state income tax for the new state is about $17. Will this $17 carry over to the next year? Will I have to fill out any additional forms?

The recurring theme in this thread is with 'State' taxes you are on your own :)

Technically you are always responsible for any tax, however like fed most states will say below a certain threshold they don't care.

$17 probably is not a concern for anyone. All you need to do is grab the state form and find the minimum for reporting.



 

Cat

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,059
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0
Can I use the 1040EZ to file a 2002 return? I meet the eight requirements for filing it, aside from the late status.

Thanks.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Cat
Can I use the 1040EZ to file a 2002 return? I meet the eight requirements for filing it, aside from the late status.

Thanks.

If there isn't an exception for late filing you can use it. I don't think there are so if you meet all 1040EZ requirements then it should be ok however:


What if You File or Pay Late?

The IRS can charge you interest and penalties on the amount you owe.

If you file late, the penalty is usually 5% of the amount due for each month or part of a month your return is late, unless you have a reasonable explanation. If you do, attach it to your return. The penalty can be as much as 25% (more in some cases) of the tax due. We will charge you interest on the penalty from the due date of the return (including extensions). If your return is more than 60 days late, the minimum penalty will be $100 or the amount of any tax you owe, whichever is smaller.

If you pay your taxes late, the penalty is usually ½ of 1% of the unpaid amount for each month or part of a month the tax is not paid. The penalty can be as much as 25% of the unpaid amount. It applies to any unpaid tax on the return.


Being more than 60 days late throws you on the IRS most wanted list :) They will let you know what to do once they get it. If you can include any kind of letter to rationalize this oversight I would...

Good luck with that.

&Aring;
 

Submit

Senior member
Jan 29, 2001
793
0
0
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Submit

The state income tax for the new state is about $17. Will this $17 carry over to the next year? Will I have to fill out any additional forms?

The recurring theme in this thread is with 'State' taxes you are on your own :)

Technically you are always responsible for any tax, however like fed most states will say below a certain threshold they don't care.

$17 probably is not a concern for anyone. All you need to do is grab the state form and find the minimum for reporting.

I think I found what I need, btw the "new"state is Nebraska..

this is what I found...

ESTIMATED TAX PAYMENTS must be filed if your Nebraska
income tax can reasonably be expected to exceed allowable
credits by $300 or more. Allowable credits for income tax include,
but are not limited to, those listed on lines 19 through 25 of Form
1040N. Lines 28 through 32 of Form 1040N may also be used to
offset income tax owed.


Does this mean that since my state tax of $17 is less then $300 I don't need to file?

 

Cat

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
1,059
0
0
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Cat
Can I use the 1040EZ to file a 2002 return? I meet the eight requirements for filing it, aside from the late status.

Thanks.

If there isn't an exception for late filing you can use it. I don't think there are so if you meet all 1040EZ requirements then it should be ok however:


What if You File or Pay Late?

The IRS can charge you interest and penalties on the amount you owe.

If you file late, the penalty is usually 5% of the amount due for each month or part of a month your return is late, unless you have a reasonable explanation. If you do, attach it to your return. The penalty can be as much as 25% (more in some cases) of the tax due. We will charge you interest on the penalty from the due date of the return (including extensions). If your return is more than 60 days late, the minimum penalty will be $100 or the amount of any tax you owe, whichever is smaller.

If you pay your taxes late, the penalty is usually ½ of 1% of the unpaid amount for each month or part of a month the tax is not paid. The penalty can be as much as 25% of the unpaid amount. It applies to any unpaid tax on the return.


Being more than 60 days late throws you on the IRS most wanted list :) They will let you know what to do once they get it. If you can include any kind of letter to rationalize this oversight I would...

Good luck with that.

&Aring;


I didn't owe anything that year, thankfully.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Then you should be fine...some say you don't even have to file if you are getting money back, but I think it's always wise to send something in even if you state exempt. I can't say I know a ton of people with IRS problems, but talking with small business owners many got audited after skipping a year. Small business is a highly audited arena though. You tend to stay under rocks and run shadow to shadow ;).

Uncle Sam rarely cares if they have to pay or aren't getting anything from the 'deal'.

&Aring;
 

anno

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,907
0
0
Ok.. my daughter (19) is a full time student, on scholarships which cover tuition and room and board and books and fees and leave her some money left over.. how much left over decreases each year, but still.. she is very fortunate.

I haven't done either of our taxes yet (probably will do tomorrow, on the off chance I decide to go ahead and file fafsa) mainly because I just am so not looking forward to doing them because of.. either the screwy way these things are reported our our stupidity, I haven't decided which yet.. last year she clicked the button to pay her tuition in december so they reported 2 semesters of fees against one semester of scholarships because they didn't actually give her the overage until january.. this year she didn't click the pay the fees button until january so we have 2 semesters of scholarships up against 1 semester and 4 hours of summer school and that is just not a pretty picture. I don't really understand why they can't pair the income for the semester with the semester it covers, that would make things so much easier but.. nobody consulted me when they worked this stuff out, 'eh? so this year we're lookin' at 14k+ income against around 5k of expenses.. someone's gonna have to pay some taxes.

I believe I can claim her as a dependent if I choose to because almost all of her income for last year (all but about 120.00) is from scholarships, but I will do each of our taxes twice, to determine which will result in the lowest overall tax bill (she's going to college free, the least I can do is pay her taxes). I am correct in that interpretation, yes? we do contribute the rest of her support, house her when she's not at school, buy what she needs, pay her health insurance and car insurance, provide the car she drives.

beyond that clarification, my question while y'all are here is actually regarding next year's taxes.. she's going to do a summer study abroad course (2 courses, actually.. 6 hours) through her university, and there is a 2k fellowship available to go towards those expenses.. so we're looking at more expenses (at least the tuition for the hours) and more scholarship income as well. there will be considerably more expenses than that, the cost will be around 4.2 k plus air fare and personal expenses. normally you can deduct from scholarship funds actual tuition, required fees and things required for the course.. the newspaper subscription required for a journalism class, the film and paper and mounting required for a photography class, processing fees associated with a film class.. in this case she can't take these summer classes without first getting to italy and the room/board is required, for example if we had family that she could stay with, she would not be allowed to do so, as are the side-trip fees so.. how am I going to figure out what part of this adventure we are going to be able to include as deductable expenses? surely something above the 6 hour summer tuition is going to be deductable..

 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
A little too much information here...

As far as her scholarships anything beyond qualified expenses is income. You get a way better benefit from the HOPE deductions which are a two year only deal for the first two years of post-secondary education at a *qualified* school. After this you fall into Lifetime Learning which isn't as beneficial.....


Some details:
Loan Qualifications -- the student loan:

must have been taken solely to pay qualified education expenses;
cannot be from a related person or made under a qualified employer plan.
Student Qualifications -- the student must be:

you, your spouse, or your dependent;
enrolled at least half-time in a degree program.
Qualified Education Expenses: *
For purposes of the student loan interest deduction, these expenses are the total costs of attending an eligible educational institution, including graduate school. They include amounts paid for the following items:

tuition and fees
room and board
books, supplies, and equipment
other necessary expenses (such as transportation)
Note: the cost of room and board qualifies only to the extent that it is not more than the greater of the following two amounts:
1) The allowance for room and board, as determined by the eligible educational institution, that was included in the cost of attendance (for financial aid purposes) for a particular academic period and living arrangement of the student.
2) The actual amount charged if the student is residing in housing owned or operated by the eligible educational institution.

* Even though the same term, qualified education expenses, is used to label a basic component of many of the education benefits, the same expenses are not necessarily allowed for each benefit. The cost of room and board is a qualified education expense as described above for the student loan interest deduction. However, it is not a qualified education expense for some of the other tax-related benefits.

No Double Benefit Allowed -
Adjustments to Qualified Education Expenses
If you pay qualified education expenses with certain tax-free funds, you cannot claim a deduction for those amounts. You must reduce the qualified education expenses by the amount of any tax-free educational assistance and refund(s) you received. Tax-free educational assistance includes:

the tax-free part of scholarships, fellowships or Pell Grants,
employer-provided educational assistance,
veterans' educational assistance,
any other tax-free payments (other than gifts or inheritances) received as educational assistance.
Qualified education expenses are not reduced by amounts paid with funds the student receives as a loan, a gift, an inheritance, or a withdrawal from the student's personal savings.



Now as far as dependant or not you are dealing with two different definitions. For the IRS you have to provide more than 50% of someone's support to qualify them. For educational definition, it is until they are 24 usually unless they have a dependant of their own and/or married. It doesn't matter where her money is coming from, many people make the mistake of thinking grants and other free money is not considered income....only is special cases is it exempt.

As far as flying I doubt that will be allowed unless there is a special circumstance that dictates it as required as part of the course. Lifetime learning is like this....unless the book costs are part of the tuition itself you can't use them...

Still all this said, if she is considering a Journalism major and wants to travel the world to get the degree in it forsaking stateside courses she is going to have to work on getting some sort of sponser probably willing to fork out free cash as a 'gift' (which may still be considered her income, but roughly 20% in taxes is better than 100% of the costs). Everyone would probably love to travel the world for their major.

The last thing to consider as well is 'what kind of income' is she realistically looking at? I know a Master's holding social worker (MSW I think is the degree) with about $60k in monies to repay for a job that pays around $30-35k.....she spends 'rent' on her loans each month....about $6,000 per year/20% of her income. This isn't that uncommon. Chances are she's going to need to turn to loan money to fullfill all these goals. Avoiding loans even if it means an slower graduation is a smart move....if anything an older candidate stands out in the swarms of Bachelor holders that all these free money/tax benefits/B or better GPA free rides have made. I feel getting into and graduation from college has become too easy and it's making holding a degree less valuable. I know many going back for Masters and Ph.Ds as they look the same on paper with just a BA/BS on their resumes.

If you can get in touch with some of similar majors that have done the same kinds of traveling they can advise you *possibly*. Just because someone filed a return and got back 100% of their expenses does not mean the IRS will come knocking on their door to explain their errors and collect the penalties and interest :(.

Good luck.

&Aring;



 

anno

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,907
0
0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: alkemyst
A little too much information here...

As far as her scholarships anything beyond qualified expenses is income. You get a way better benefit from the HOPE deductions which are a two year only deal for the first two years of post-secondary education at a *qualified* school. After this you fall into Lifetime Learning which isn't as beneficial.....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



maybe I blew it last year.. I didn't figure we could qualify for the HOPE deduction if we weren't actually spending any money. if all the money is free money.. can we still take that? this is our last shot at it, I guess, so.. I need to figure that out.


loan stuff is not relevant, there are no loans.


Tax-free educational assistance includes:
the tax-free part of scholarships, fellowships or Pell Grants,


that bit is relevant.. but the question was probably what part of the scholarships is tax-free!


Now as far as dependant or not you are dealing with two different definitions. For the IRS you have to provide more than 50% of someone's support to qualify them. For educational definition, it is until they are 24 usually unless they have a dependant of their own and/or married. It doesn't matter where her money is coming from, many people make the mistake of thinking grants and other free money is not considered income....only is special cases is it exempt.



I am nearly sure that I determined last year that while the scholarship money is far from exempt from taxes, I do not have to consider it as income in deciding whether I contribute the lion's share of her support. I am sure that based on the way the funds have been distributed that last year I contributed most of her support regardless, she lived in my home and was supported by me from january1 to august 13 and most of december and bits in between so I have no worries about guessing wrong on that last year but.. I wouldn't mind a second opinion (third opinion, I guess I have mine and yours now) on that.. because for 2003 tax year she did live probably slightly more than half the year outside my home..

As far as flying I doubt that will be allowed unless there is a special circumstance that dictates it as required as part of the course.

well.. it's a course (2 courses) offered by the university of south carolina, but taught in italy.. so.. seems to me that getting to italy is a required part of the course(s), but.. I am aware that I may lose that point.. just asking, on the off chance someone who knows might say I win it! my brother in law is a commercial pilot and we may still manage to get the airfare cheap enough it won't matter anyway.

Lifetime learning is like this....unless the book costs are part of the tuition itself you can't use them...this is why HOPE is so much better....

well.. here again.. I thought we weren't eligible for these because we weren't actually spending any money.. my take on the gift money thing was that tuition and required fees and things required for the courses (books, supplies that are required.. like the film for photography but not like pencils or paper or printer ink.. ) are deductable before you have to count it = income. so we take the form the school sends us which lists the deductable fees, and add the receipts for books and film and processing and like that, and then what's left over (which is a LOT!) we'll owe taxes on. is it possible we ARE (or she IS) eligible for this hope thing or this lifetime learning thing? I really had convinced myself that wasn't possible..


Still all this said, if she is considering a Journalism major and wants to travel the world to get the degree in it forsaking stateside courses she is going to have to work on getting some sort of sponser probably willing to fork out free cash as a 'gift' (which may still be considered her income, but roughly 20% in taxes is better than 100% of the costs).


what the heck are you talkin' about now? rofl. she just wants to do a 4 week summer study abroad thing. studying.. italian. she will be back home and back to her regularly scheduled program in august..


Everyone would probably love to travel the world for their major.

eh.. everyone probably would like to have my tax questions too.

The last thing to consider as well is 'what kind of income' is she realistically looking at?


now you're giving me educational advice? I don't know what kind of income she's realistically looking at, but you don't know what her career goals are either. MY goal as a parent has been to raise self-supporting happy people. I don't care if she's ever rich.. I don't think she cares about that either, she does hope to be able to pay her bills. currently she's a 19yo honors college junior with scholarships that pay all her expenses and pocket money.. who can complain?? HER goal is to get out of undergrad with the skills to get a job doing something she can stand to do if she has to, and go on to grad school.. and she's tryin' her darndest to see to it that she doesn't have to pay for the next degree either. she works hard and always has.. and she WILL be successful, on her own terms.. no doubts. rich is not one of her goals.. debt-free professional satisfaction is, and.. I think she's on the right track for that.

I know a Master's holding social worker (MSW I think is the degree) with about $60k in monies to repay for a job that pays around $30-35k.....she spends 'rent' on her loans each month....

that's unfortunate, but.. why did you think I needed to know this?


graduation is a smart move....if anything an older candidate stands out in the swarms of Bachelor holders that all these free money/tax benefits/B or better GPA free rides have made. I feel getting into and graduation from college has become too easy and it's making holding a degree less valuable. I know many going back for Masters and Ph.Ds as they look the same on paper with just a BA/BS on their resumes.

ah... ok. now that my tea leaves been read, anyone know anything about my tax questions?

 

AntMan530

Senior member
Dec 22, 2000
769
0
0
taxes, when are they due? Im in California. I've done mine, but I'm curious what the last day is.

Thanks


 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: anno


maybe I blew it last year.. I didn't figure we could qualify for the HOPE deduction if we weren't actually spending any money. if all the money is free money.. can we still take that? this is our last shot at it, I guess, so.. I need to figure that out.


loan stuff is not relevant, there are no loans.


that bit is relevant.. but the question was probably what part of the scholarships is tax-free!

I am nearly sure that I determined last year that while the scholarship money is far from exempt from taxes, I do not have to consider it as income in deciding whether I contribute the lion's share of her support. I am sure that based on the way the funds have been distributed that last year I contributed most of her support regardless, she lived in my home and was supported by me from january1 to august 13 and most of december and bits in between so I have no worries about guessing wrong on that last year but.. I wouldn't mind a second opinion (third opinion, I guess I have mine and yours now) on that.. because for 2003 tax year she did live probably slightly more than half the year outside my home..

What I posted above is from the IRS on deductions of educational expenses...I was trying to help and you turned this into a 'problem', as far as irrelevance, your provided alot of that. It was hard to try to figure out just what you were trying to get at.

You being nearly sure last year, and coming here now for advice should be a big clue to check into suggestions more, rather than just throw them back. I don't think you understand what = dependant. Also she may still have to file on her own, just because you are 'claiming' her doesn't mean she is exempt herself.

For a tax dependant the criteria is clear, there are 5 'tests':
1) Member of household/relationship test: must be part of the household the entire year (not necessarily living in the 'house' though)

2) Citizen or Resident test:Citizen/resident of the US, Canada or Mexico for any part of the year

3) Joint return test: Not filing a joint return with anyone

4) Support test: more than half total support was provided (this is the problem I see, if she has money left over that is 'free' and seems abundant by your description, why are you taking the deduction?....this just seems odd to me...the idea is the support is supposed to be needed, you are not supposed to say hey take 100% of your money and roll it into investments and I will write you off as a dependant...which leads to #5 below and often people assume a dependant doesn't have to file their own taxes ever.)

5) Gross income test:Gross income of less than $3,050 or more than that and also be your child and under 19 at the end of the tax year and not in college or under 24 at the end of the tax year and a full time student for more than 5 months during the tax year.

Now I was trying to give you pointers as not all scholarships and grants are considered equal. Some are not taxable, others are. Outside whatever is not used for qualified educational expenses that is. If the money is 'tax-free' then you reduce qualified educational expenses by the amount of the tax-free money. If you come up with $0, it may be difficult to say you supported more than 50% of her expenses....there are exceptions, but we would need to know how much she got in money for school, what the costs were in total for the year and what the costs were for.

well.. it's a course (2 courses) offered by the university of south carolina, but taught in italy.. so.. seems to me that getting to italy is a required part of the course(s), but.. I am aware that I may lose that point.. just asking, on the off chance someone who knows might say I win it! my brother in law is a commercial pilot and we may still manage to get the airfare cheap enough it won't matter anyway.

Thing is transportation costs are not a qualified expense though....I was merely replying to help you and possibly get you thinking of solutions....most of the advice given in this thread was not a direct answer to any question, but merely suggestions that often got the person thinking and helping themselves. None of us can really give a 100% guaranteed answer as 1) we are only getting small snapshots of specifics tax problems, not the whole tax situation and 2) most don't disclose all the facts in truth even if asked for them.

well.. here again.. I thought we weren't eligible for these because we weren't actually spending any money.. my take on the gift money thing was that tuition and required fees and things required for the courses (books, supplies that are required.. like the film for photography but not like pencils or paper or printer ink.. ) are deductable before you have to count it = income. so we take the form the school sends us which lists the deductable fees, and add the receipts for books and film and processing and like that, and then what's left over (which is a LOT!) we'll owe taxes on. is it possible we ARE (or she IS) eligible for this hope thing or this lifetime learning thing? I really had convinced myself that wasn't possible..

I am trying to help you. The HOPE is more beneficial but less flexible, the lifetime learning is less beneficial (most of the time) but more flexible. Room and board, medical expenses (including those required by the school), Books and supplies unless required to be paid to enroll in the course, transportation, basic living expenses, any course involving sports, games or hobbies except lifetime learning allows these providing they improve job skills or open up a job opportunity by having them...these are all examples of *NON-QUALIFYING* expenses. These are also commonly claimed as qualifying expenses....doesn't make it right though.

You also can't double benefit...you can't claim Schedule A or C deductions and do HOPE/Lifetime learning. You both can't claim them either if she files as a dependant and separately. You *may* realize this and if so *ignore* this advice. I am speaking in general here as others may also have a similar question.

what the heck are you talkin' about now? rofl. she just wants to do a 4 week summer study abroad thing. studying.. italian. she will be back home and back to her regularly scheduled program in august..

I was referring to study abroad and how it's difficult to get the costs covered....if she could find a sponsor the deal is closed...if not you are not going to be able to deduct that.


The last thing to consider as well is 'what kind of income' is she realistically looking at?

now you're giving me educational advice? I don't know what kind of income she's realistically looking at, but you don't know what her career goals are either. MY goal as a parent has been to raise self-supporting happy people. I don't care if she's ever rich.. I don't think she cares about that either, she does hope to be able to pay her bills. currently she's a 19yo honors college junior with scholarships that pay all her expenses and pocket money.. who can complain?? HER goal is to get out of undergrad with the skills to get a job doing something she can stand to do if she has to, and go on to grad school.. and she's tryin' her darndest to see to it that she doesn't have to pay for the next degree either. she works hard and always has.. and she WILL be successful, on her own terms.. no doubts. rich is not one of her goals.. debt-free professional satisfaction is, and.. I think she's on the right track for that.

I know a Master's holding social worker (MSW I think is the degree) with about $60k in monies to repay for a job that pays around $30-35k.....she spends 'rent' on her loans each month....

that's unfortunate, but.. why did you think I needed to know this?

There is no need to get hostile, this is a legitimate concern and one that is not planned out usually until the payments for the education come rolling in...if she is sailing on all free money then it is not a concern. This was merely *advice*. You are right, I and no one else knows anything about your situation other than what you told us...however since it's obvious you don't understand the full situation *we* will probably hint at other things along the way. I didn't say anything about rich or poor...my statements were to provide insight having witnessed people that could have gotten through college without debt but chose to take added expenses and a 'few' loans along the way to aid their free money and allow them to travel, take $1000, 2000, 5000 dollar workshops, etc. These are all fun and educational, but take the advice or leave it....they are *suggestions*, no one is trying to tell you what to do, you came here asking us for *advice*.

ah... ok. now that my tea leaves been read, anyone know anything about my tax questions?

You may not get answers with that attitude here. I answered much of what you asked. No one will be able to spoon-fed you everything.

&Aring;
 

anno

Golden Member
May 1, 2003
1,907
0
0
ok.. lets try this again. it's day, I've gone to the post office and returned with an armfull of forms and instructions, wandered the irs website to find proof that I do know, sorta, what I'm talking about and taken several of the their training classes (got 100's!:p), done my taxes two ways.. it's been a busy morning.

I know she has to file taxes, she filed last year as well. I am not sure whether I will claim her as a dependent or not yet; as I said originally I'll do each of our taxes both ways and see which way results in the lowest overall hit.

according to publication 501, to meet the support test (#4) I am not to include scholarship income..

Do Not Include
in Total Support
The following items are not included in total support.

Federal, state, and local income taxes paid by persons from their own income.

Social security and Medicare taxes paid by persons from their own income.

Life insurance premiums.

Funeral expenses.

Scholarships received by your child if your child is a full-time student.

Survivors' and Dependents' Educational Assistance payments used for the support of the child who receives them.

am I misinterpreting that? it looks fairly clear. if I'm not including the scholarships, then.. except for her 144.00 of wages, we contributed 100% of her support.

and her full-time student status meets the test in #5.. so.. I'm fairly certain that I CAN claim her as a dependent..

now.. hers.

topic 421 says
Qualified scholarship and fellowship grants are treated as tax?free amounts if all the following conditions are met:

You are a candidate for a degree at an educational institution;
Amounts you receive as a scholarship or fellowship are used for tuition and fees required for enrollment or attendance at the educational institution, or for books, supplies, and equipment required for courses of instruction; and
The amounts received are not a payment for your services.

so that allows for subtracting the cost of books. equipment and supplies from the amount on the 1098-T so we're looking at 4782 that is tax-free, and 9417 that needs to be reported and taxed. (this is not extravagant extra free money, there's not all that much left after everything that is taxable (room and board, etc) is paid) plus.. 144 of actual wages for which she has w-2's. and.. I think I've done nearly enough research and poking around on my own now to finish this up and decide which pair of forms to get signed and sent, except..

::sigh::

I can't figure out which form to use for her! hah.. that should have been the easy part..

ok.. studied the forms and instructions a bit more and I'm pretty sure the 1040EZ is the form for the job so.. plugging the numbers in the right spots, it looks like she will have to pay 176.00 in tax if she files independently, vs. 483.00 if we claim her as a dependent. we will have to pay 51.00 if she files independently, and get back 399 if we claim her as a dependent. so.. the total tax bite = 227 independent vs. 84.00 dependent.. I believe we'll keep her.


thanks for your help :)

 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: anno
[snip]

am I misinterpreting that? it looks fairly clear. if I'm not including the scholarships, then.. except for her 144.00 of wages, we contributed 100% of her support.

and her full-time student status meets the test in #5.. so.. I'm fairly certain that I CAN claim her as a dependent..

now.. hers.

topic 421 says
Qualified scholarship and fellowship grants are treated as tax?free amounts if all the following conditions are met:

You are a candidate for a degree at an educational institution;
Amounts you receive as a scholarship or fellowship are used for tuition and fees required for enrollment or attendance at the educational institution, or for books, supplies, and equipment required for courses of instruction; and
The amounts received are not a payment for your services.

so that allows for subtracting the cost of books. equipment and supplies from the amount on the 1098-T so we're looking at 4782 that is tax-free, and 9417 that needs to be reported and taxed. (this is not extravagant extra free money, there's not all that much left after everything that is taxable (room and board, etc) is paid) plus.. 144 of actual wages for which she has w-2's. and.. I think I've done nearly enough research and poking around on my own now to finish this up and decide which pair of forms to get signed and sent, except..

::sigh::

I can't figure out which form to use for her! hah.. that should have been the easy part..

ok.. studied the forms and instructions a bit more and I'm pretty sure the 1040EZ is the form for the job so.. plugging the numbers in the right spots, it looks like she will have to pay 176.00 in tax if she files independently, vs. 483.00 if we claim her as a dependent. we will have to pay 51.00 if she files independently, and get back 399 if we claim her as a dependent. so.. the total tax bite = 227 independent vs. 84.00 dependent.. I believe we'll keep her.


thanks for your help :)

Scholarships usually are not counted, without knowing what they are exactly I can't say. Anything that requires work around campus or projects may fall out of this. Also some scholarships are specified as taxed...you have to be careful.

The fees that can and can not be counted are hard to say without seeing....if they appear on the 109x-x form usually they can be used. I have only seen tuition on any tax form for me and people I have known, however in many private schools everything is wrapped into one...which is nice for taxes (it's sort of BS as how can you not buy the book regardless if it's required to enroll...it's a matter of semantics to me).

The dependant case seems the best, you are right that is not an extravagant amount....some though have better money in scholarships than the average 'citizen' makes in a year ... pretty sad.

Anyway...if you systematically go through the forms you can at least know you should be correct....now the only doubt is 'did you miss anything else you can use?'....probably not, but that is the only variable. Netting under $100 and having education covered is a deal where I'd put the pencil down and screw around with something else.

Now if I could only cut down the $2000+ I am owing.

&Aring;