Covidiots thread

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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
24,415
29,095
136
doesn't deathsentance have a stake in Remdesivir ?

i know Rand Paul does


 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
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We'll see, but my money would be heavily on no. After all at this time in 2009 everyone was certain Sarah Palin would be running in 2012 and nobody thought she would be under indictment, haha. Add on to that the erosion of Trump's support even within the Republican Party and I think that adds up to him trying to be some sort of kingmaker instead of enduring the humiliation of another loss or even worse, a potential loss in the primary.
I'm not aware of Trump's loss of support among republicans.


If you have some contrary evidence, post it. It will brighten my day.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
Not persuaded by a single poll which poses the issue as Trump v. the Republican party. Here is one more recent which shows him as the overwhelming favorite in a hypothetical 2024 primary.


This is the sort of information which led me to wonder why DeSantis would even try.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,534
29,535
136
Not persuaded by a single poll which poses the issue as Trump v. the Republican party. Here is one more recent which shows him as the overwhelming favorite in a hypothetical 2024 primary.

I think your article proves my point. I suspect 58% is WAY down from what it would have been not very long ago. I also expect it will continue to decline.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,534
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Would Trump want someone like that as VP tho?

Imo, his ego won't tolerate anyone that may outshine him.

A boring, bottom bitch like Pence was perfect for the job.
Yes that's a good point, there are already news articles out there about how Trump hates DeSantis because he's stealing attention by Republicans away from him.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
I think your article proves my point. I suspect 58% is WAY down from what it would have been not very long ago. I also expect it will continue to decline.
It's still 7 points better than the margin that Biden won the dem primary over. And vastly far away from anyone being able to challenge him.

The only way Trump doesn't run is if he thinks he will lose the general election and not be able to overthrow the result because he isn't in office. Or if he's dead, extremely ill, or in jail.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,534
29,535
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It's still 7 points better than the margin that Biden won the dem primary over. And vastly far away from anyone being able to challenge him.
We'll see!

The only way Trump doesn't run is if he thinks he will lose the general election and not be able to overthrow the result because he isn't in office. Or if he's dead, extremely ill, or in jail.
Yes, that's my thinking as well - I guess I put those probabilities higher than you do.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
We'll see!


Yes, that's my thinking as well - I guess I put those probabilities higher than you do.
For Trump, it's a competition between fear of the humiliation of losing and wanting more glory. Both stem directly from his narcissism. We'll see which wins out.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,534
29,535
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For Trump, it's a competition between fear of the humiliation of losing and wanting more glory. Both stem directly from his narcissism. We'll see which wins out.
My personal prediction is that he will continuously toy with it up until the primary season gets going in earnest and will then see polling that indicates he would lose again, at which point he will try to be some sort of kingmaker.

But hey, I was wrong about the guy in 2016 so who knows.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
7,280
5,503
136
That's unhinged even for that clown. Mandatory vaccinations have been part of the US military since the revolution. It's been a running gag in the military for generations about the sheer outrageous number of vaccines against literally everything that they can be required to take. To complain now is clearly political.
Yes, we were lined up and vaccinated <full stop>
 
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nOOky

Platinum Member
Aug 17, 2004
2,299
1,214
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In Vietnam my older brother used to talk about the "square needle in the left nut". Basically they would make the recruits enter a room one at a time, do something painless to them, but make each recruit scream bloody murder before they left and ushered the next guy in. He remembers every single guy sweating and shaking before going into that room lol

I got everything when I entered the Army, including smallpox which sucked, but much better than small pox all over the body I can imagine. I don't remember being given a choice lol
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
10,162
4,901
136
I don't know if it's been posted in here but there is a subreddit related to this called r/HermanCainAward where people who posted crazy things about the virus on social media then die from it are shown.

Slate recently did a piece on it basically calling it depraved and cruel while faulting it for not being persuasive to refusers. I don't think that I agree. This is the natural culmination of the culture and information war conservatives and Trump stoked to nuclear intensity for their own advantages. There is little to nothing that can persuade the remaining holdouts beyond strict requirements. I don't feel amusement nor sadness at these people dying, maybe some pity. The compassion reserves of most of the country have been depleted by what they've chosen to inflict themselves and us. The people who have acted responsibly are done coddling and the consequences of each persons actions and choices are going to play out as they will.

If we are talking influential political/media figures, like that radio host who publicly mocked AIDS-activists who died of the condition, I'm all for a shortage of compassion - there are limits, leave him to try and justify himself to his maker, if he can. But I'm just less inclined to think that about ordinary powerless people who tweeted stupid ideas they'd somehow gotten in their heads. I'm in favour of more incentives (stick or carrot) to get vaccinated, but I doubt being seen as gloating would lead to anything good.


However, I wrote the above before seeing this story

 
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manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,556
911
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I'm not sure what we are saying is necessarily different, but getting hung up on "herd immunity". Really comes down to how effective covid can be spread in a community that has nearly completely gained immunity, either though vaccination or previous infection.

Delta readily infects the vulnerable (eg unvaccinated), but can it really continue to thrive when there is no one left that's easy to infect?

This is where I think it's still around in small pockets (reservoirs), but have doubts of widespread circulation that can get to everyone. I would want to see evidence that even in the highly vaccinated/immune communities there is still a widespread, but perhaps undetected circulation of delta.

Could you provide a link to the statement from Pollard you are specifically referring to the clarification?
Sure, so I got it from the main ATOT thread:

Note that covers what the Brits are saying, but doesn't mean rest of world agrees. Like I said the first time, Pollard is basically having a semantic argument over the term "herd immunity." If people construe that as vaccines are less important, they are misrepresenting Pollard. Israel had a massive delta surge not long ago, and they have a well vaccinated population. Delta is what prompted the Israelis to fast-track boosters to seniors (note if RY62 was right, the Israelis would instead have done nothing).

Keep in the mind the key distinction here. There is SARS-CoV-2 viral transmission (infection) and at some level of symptoms, there is COVID-19 disease. The Brits are saying that with delta, you can't really break the chains of infections but vaccines can still prevent a lot of severe outcomes. Long COVID aside, preventing hospitalizations and deaths is what matters in the real world.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Aggressive vaccination campaigns need to continue but, in my lowly opinion, the current crop of vaccines are not the final answer. I agree that the the current vaccines are doing as designed to help control the severity of pandemic but the efficacy wanes quickly. Vaccinated or not, there will be transmissions, infections, deaths and mutations.

I've seen estimates that somewhere around half of the unvaccinated have natural immunity from prior infection. Vaccines combined with natural immunities will eventually bring us to an endemic phase where we'll then need intense focus on more effective vaccines, alternative preventions and treatments. I have read of some promising new treatment options in trials we just need to do our parts to get through the rough patches until they're readily available.
IIRC that's not what you said last time about vaccines. You basically poo-poo'd vaccines as having a significant role in ending the pandemic, and that is currently false.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
75,534
29,535
136
Sure, so I got it from the main ATOT thread:

Note that covers what the Brits are saying, but doesn't mean rest of world agrees. Like I said the first time, Pollard is basically having a semantic argument over the term "herd immunity." If people construe that as vaccines are less important, they are misrepresenting Pollard. Israel had a massive delta surge not long ago, and they have a well vaccinated population. Delta is what prompted the Israelis to fast-track boosters to seniors (note if RY62 was right, the Israelis would instead have done nothing).

Keep in the mind the key distinction here. There is SARS-CoV-2 viral transmission (infection) and at some level of symptoms, there is COVID-19 disease. The Brits are saying that with delta, you can't really break the chains of infections but vaccines can still prevent a lot of severe outcomes. Long COVID aside, preventing hospitalizations and deaths is what matters in the real world.


IIRC that's not what you said last time about vaccines. You basically poo-poo'd vaccines as having a significant role in ending the pandemic, and that is currently false.
One important thing to note also is that Israel is no longer a particularly highly vaccinated population. They started off very strong but then fell off and have been passed by most other developed countries.

 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
14,681
10,652
136
One important thing to note also is that Israel is no longer a particularly highly vaccinated population. They started off very strong but then fell off and have been passed by most other developed countries.

Yup, Israel nearly capped out very early on, around March. Currently they are 62% fully vaxxed and 67% at least half-vaxxed. Which isn't up all that much from March. US is 58% fully and 71% at least half. The half vaxxed rate is important because it tells you how many people have recently started the process. The vast majority of half-vaxxed are just in between doses. When the number of half-vaxxed starts to fall off, the country is moving very slowly and possibly approaching a cap. That happened months ago in Israel and isn't happening in the US yet.

UAE is leading the world. They were with COVID testing and now they are with vaccinations. By a wide margin.
 

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