Covid19: What will the end result be for America?

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,404
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The ones mostly in charge are morons, I'll agree with that. Gov hasn't been shy about not wanting to do it.
Just saw on CBS TV OTA news that the Miss. legislature is going to approve replacing the racist flag with something else and the public will be asked to approve the one of their choice in November. One catch: It has to say "In God We Trust." I think that's one of the dumbest slogans ever invented and think it should be removed from US currency. To me, it malignantly suggests that we don't bare responsibility for our stupidity, our lack of compassion, our failures, our unwillingness to make necessary changes. None of that matters because, well, some supreme being is responsible for the crazy world we've created and refuse to fix, NOT US. I stick to my declaration: MORONS.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
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You know, I'm not buying that there is even going to be a second winter wave. Not when Texas, Florida, and Arizona are getting infected at ridiculous rates with lots of deaths coming when these states are all pretty deeply in summer now (I know summer is technically only a week old but where I'm at in San Antonio, Texas it's basically summer weather from late April). I think Michael Osterholm may be right when he says not to expect waves, that SARS-Cov2 is probably just a big forest fire that's going to keep expanding and burning. I guess until it's out of fuel like how the Spanish flu pandemic was ended. And I'm getting pessimistic on having a vaccine, not when the other four endemic human coronaviruses have never had a vaccine developed. Ever since the pandemic started I have always wondered if the endemic human coronaviruses that cause the common cold wiped out tons of people too when they were novel and then mutated to only give us mild symptoms or if they just killed off everyone who didn't have resistance and the weakening of symptoms they cause was due more to evolution by natural selection in humans. Scary thought if it's the latter, because this virus is probably here with our species for good from here on out.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,404
8,038
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Larry Brilliant in his interview with Wired online (google it) seemed pretty confident an effective vaccine will be developed and deployed, and that it in combination with people developing immunity will result in herd immunity at some point... i.e. 60-70% immune = HI.

No SARS vaccine reached full development it is said because it disappeared on its own (well, no doubt with our help). But SARS did not communicate from pre-symptomatics.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
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I feel we will have a vaccine. The reason why is money. No time in the previous future have we pumped so much money into developing one. The first to develop an effective vaccine will be rewarded with huge monetary gains with little to no investment on their part.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
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I feel we will have a vaccine. The reason why is money. No time in the previous future have we pumped so much money into developing one. The first to develop an effective vaccine will be rewarded with huge monetary gains with little to no investment on their part.

I think we might, but quickly is not a rational thought. There has been much more money spent on a vaccine for AIDS, but nothing yet. Malaria, spent a ton there too. No vaccine for seasonal flu or common cold, both coronaviruses. Money is not the only reason a vaccine is developed. In our current situation, if the money was spent on testing, quarantine and contact tracing, the economic impacts would have been much less severe. Maybe then the vaccine is not taken seriously, but now it will be gobbled up at any cost.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
8,937
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With the orange baby pushing for one by October, how many corners will get cut and how many issues will develop as a result of not taking the necessary precautions?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,458
987
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I think we might, but quickly is not a rational thought. There has been much more money spent on a vaccine for AIDS, but nothing yet. Malaria, spent a ton there too. No vaccine for seasonal flu or common cold, both coronaviruses. Money is not the only reason a vaccine is developed. In our current situation, if the money was spent on testing, quarantine and contact tracing, the economic impacts would have been much less severe. Maybe then the vaccine is not taken seriously, but now it will be gobbled up at any cost.

Malaria is caused by a parasite and HIV is a retrovirus that inserts itself into a persons genome. They are unlikely to ever have vaccines for those two reasons.

As for the flu, we do have short term vaccines. They work rather well most years. As long as Covid doesn’t mutate like the flu or the various cold virii there should be a vaccine.
 
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Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
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We and other shithole countries run by populist wanna-be dictators (eg Brazil) will lag behind the rest of the world in getting our economies back running, while our toll of death and health effects (perhaps permanent ones) from this skyrocket. And instead of actually taking a couple common sense precautions that we KNOW work--masks and staying out of a few indoor crowded situations--we get people protesting against mask-wearing, which is something out of Monty Python. Help, help, I'm being oppressed, I can't slap this paper on my face while I shop Walmart, it's treading on muh rights!

Can we have protests against drunk driver rules next? Those are treading on your rights too and they are a much bigger hassle than slipping a mask on.

Instead of actually looking at science and around the world at what works in places like Japan, we'll continue to YOLO and look for people and things to blame for our behavior. Regardless of where this started--this is all on US.

Biden, if he wins, is inheriting a mess. Not only a huge virus toll and a shitty economy, but a society (if you want to call it that) full of anti-science people that get their information from social media bubbles. Which would be ok if that information was in any way factual.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,578
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More of a reckoning where those on the right keep losing their culture war and political prospects, to the benefit of the country. Conservatives have a substantial body count to reflect upon and hopefully take science and common sense a little more seriously from now on. It should be abundantly clear to any functional adult that banana republican priorities just don't work.

8yDpwXv.jpg

Who would had thought. Those bible thumpers.

BTW, that guy on the bottom right looks like Rick Flair. lol
 
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Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Malaria is caused by a parasite and HIV is a retrovirus that inserts itself into a persons genome. They are unlikely to ever have vaccines for those two reasons.

As for the flu, we do have short term vaccines. They work rather well most years. As long as Covid doesn’t mutate like the flu or the various cold virii there should be a vaccine.

My point was not about the types of infection, but the results are not dictated by dollars. Cannot say these not COVID-19 will or will not have a vaccine.

The seasonal flu has so many variations and the vaccine process needs time to produce significant numbers, it’s basically a guessing game. Yes, when they guess right, it is effective, just like the local TV meteorologist. Based on this, I do not feel that is an effective vaccine strategy.

The likelihood of it not mutating is low, but possible. There are two strains right now. The one from Europe is different than the one from China. They are similar, but given the spread happening now, it is highly probable it will mutate, especially as it continues to be asymptomatic and infect the young. The ease of transmission is scary here because of the mutation given the sheer numbers it can infect.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
8,937
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Too early to say, but the different strains haven’t changed enough that the targeted spike protein won’t be effective on mutations.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,015
2,845
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Too early to say, but the different strains haven’t changed enough that the targeted spike protein won’t be effective on mutations.

Right. The mutation needs to affect the antibody target (assuming an effective vaccine) for the vaccine to no longer work. Also unknown if we develop/maintain sufficient antibodies for immunity, although likely the question there relates to need for boosters. I am optimistic this is a virus we can create an effective vaccine for.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,404
8,038
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Biden, if he wins, is inheriting a mess. Not only a huge virus toll and a shitty economy, but a society (if you want to call it that) full of anti-science people that get their information from social media bubbles. Which would be ok if that information was in any way factual.
I wish there were some way to slap the culpable media, e.g. Fox News (evidently the number one culprit). AFAIK there's nothing. No law that says you can't mislead people with false info. I suppose the only solution is making people realize that some media is bad for them one way or another.
 

Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I wish there were some way to slap the culpable media, e.g. Fox News (evidently the number one culprit). AFAIK there's nothing. No law that says you can't mislead people with false info. I suppose the only solution is making people realize that some media is bad for them one way or another.

The solution is critical thinking. Unfortunately, there are a cadre of people that are too lazy to do the efforts necessary to gain objective information as it requires reading, understanding and the use of knowledge. If this was a three-legged stool, they would be sitting in the floor. No business would advertise on a network that no one watched.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
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This is a strange coronavirus in that some get sick and some don't. And a lot of people know of no one that actually has or had it, so for many people this isn't anything to worry about or take seriously in their minds. They probably just think its some old persons disease and who cares if the old farts die off because those old farts have been taking away their fun for long enough. Old farts won't let them smoke pot, old farts won't let them do drugs, old farts take away all the fun so let the old farts die off. That is how I expect most young people to think especially when you see them out at the bars and on the beaches not wearing masks and admitting that they are not at all concerned about the virus.

The only way to know how bad this really is would be to view it from the ground level, and that would be actually viewing what was happening at the hospitals and in the ER. Then, one would see for themselves the reality of Covid 19.
So.... maybe we need live streaming cams in every ER room and in every hospital intake room so that these fun-loving doubting Debbies could actually look in live to hear and see the patients coming in with complaints of breathing, fever, and illness. THEN just maybe people could see this is real and not imagined.

The end result will depend on who is elected president in November. With Trump, all that Trump is worried about is how this pandemic makes "HIM" look, and how it effects his economy. For Donald Trump, if hundreds of thousands must die to keep the economy going then so be it. But if too many American workers die off and jobs go empty, Donald might need to let some of those illegals back in to work those American jobs vacated by dead Americans.

And if it were Joe Biden as the next president? Well, we would see a more common sense approach and a winning approach with people wearing masks and more testing and actual social distancing. A Joe Biden presidency would make wearing masks mandatory and social distancing mandatory, and what would be so wrong with THAT? With going that route and with a president Joe Biden we could actually keep most of the economy open while people still remained safe. YES, Joe would be the way to go if America has any desire to win against this virus.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,381
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End result? Probably 700k+ dead and a couple years of historically high unemployment after it's said and done. With nothing learned. Nothing fixed. And we'll throw our hands up in the air again the next time this happens and say the same stupid thing "Nothing could have been done to prevent this".
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,404
8,038
136
This is a strange coronavirus in that some get sick and some don't. And a lot of people know of no one that actually has or had it, so for many people this isn't anything to worry about or take seriously in their minds.
OK, I've read your post so far (and I will read on) but feel compelled to answer just to the first two sentences immediately.

I saw a story on TV about a guy who got deathly ill, ICU, close to dying. He was a muscular 175 or so when he went from San Francisco to Florida for a conference type affair. He was a complete stud, they showed his picture. I think he was less than 30, a nurse. He figured he'd be OK when he went. This was when things were just starting to get pretty dicey, but not by much. It was probably around the beginning of March. They showed him after 5-6 weeks in ICU, probably on ventilator much of the time. He'd lost 40-50 pounds. He looked like a skeleton. But he survived. That picture of him before, he looked like the perfect picture of health. He had no known risk factors.

Point is, this can attack anyone. There may be genetic vulnerabilities they don't know about. There are many 20-30 year-olds with similar stories, some of whom have died, no doubt.

I don't personally know anyone who has contracted covid-19, but I take it very seriously. It's likely that there are people I know who have had it. Maybe they never knew they had it, maybe they didn't want to advertise it. There's probably double digits people I know who have had it, symptomatic or not.

The thing with this is the R0 factor is so high and with its asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic spread and potential to overwhelm the health care systems and bring the economy to its knees it should/must be instilled in the public mind that it's the duty of all sentient people who are responsible for themselves to not make the situation worse by being hapless vectors, passing it on to 2-3 or more people as is the average.

And look, this isn't just a question of life or death. Just because covid-19 doesn't kill you doesn't mean you just get over it like the flu. This fucks people up, and in more ways than any other disease in history. It leaves a lot of people with permanent lung damage, scaring that will never heal. There are so many other awful things that this causes. Watch this:

 
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Grey_Beard

Golden Member
Sep 23, 2014
1,825
2,007
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The only way to know how bad this really is would be to view it from the ground level, and that would be actually viewing what was happening at the hospitals and in the ER. Then, one would see for themselves the reality of Covid 19.
So.... maybe we need live streaming cams in every ER room and in every hospital intake room so that these fun-loving doubting Debbies could actually look in live to hear and see the patients coming in with complaints of breathing, fever, and illness. THEN just maybe people could see this is real and not imagined.

I see it everyday. It’s very bad. It’s is getting worse. I work in a large system in Florida. I see the admission lines, the packed ER, the ICU struggling to keep up. The RTs running around like crazy. Nurse, doctors and anyone on a patient unit in full PPE. There have been many videos showing this. Watched an episode of VICE on Showtime. It showed a funeral home during the peak of the outbreak in NYC. That alone should have you want to avoid this.

The issue is that this takes effort. Many are against anything that takes effort. Why is there so much misinformation? Because most lack the energy to do the minor things to educate themselves and use critical thinking. I was young once, but I was not this stupid that I did not care if I got my neighbor infected with a virus. No excuse for this type of behavior. Most cultures lookup to their elders, but here we have the young not caring if they exterminate them. Not good.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,404
8,038
136
End result? Probably 700k+ dead and a couple years of historically high unemployment after it's said and done. With nothing learned. Nothing fixed. And we'll throw our hands up in the air again the next time this happens and say the same stupid thing "Nothing could have been done to prevent this".
Nobody with a lick of sense is saying that now, and said it when it became obvious we were facing potential catastrophe. We knew that president dump had axed the pandemic response team. We knew that he had no interest in cooperating with European/international efforts to maintain some infrastructure and coordinate pandemic response should the occasion arise. We should have had a look at our potential for response if and when the virus came here but we were oblivious to the fact that the Chinese were buying up our PPE by the ton, net result that we were thrown into crises in our multifarious health care facilities. We lacked a comprehensive national health care system, which other developed nations did not. President dump failed to appoint a pandemic czar (something that Obama did do to fight ebola), and continued to fumble his way through the crisis (and continue to pretend that it was really no crisis, but a trivial problem that would go away on its own) to this day. No intelligent observer will say we couldn't have been better prepared for this.
 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
8,722
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Many survivors are finding they have not recovered, and have lingering (possibly lifelong) conditions months after no longer having the virus. Marathon runners that are no where near their former performance months after 'recovery'. A health 24 year old woman that is alive only because she received a double lung transplant because COVID-19 destroyed hers.
 
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