Covid19: What will the end result be for America?

[Mai72]

As new cases rise in the south, the NE is just starting to ease up a bit on social distancing. Businesses are slowly opening. I live in South Jeresy. It's summer. The shore is packed. it's like Covid19 has never happened. A few people are wearing masks. Many aren't wearing masks unles they move into a store because it's state mandated. Bars are still closed though. Restaurants are only allowed to have 50% capacity. The other 50% have to eat outside, under tents. Part of the boardwalk is closed off. But, again if you were to go on the boardwalk you'd notice many people without masks. We aren't out of the woods yet is what I'm getting at. Yes, we've done a good job in the NE, but we could easily slip back and cases could dramatically increase.

My question is where are we going be in the fall. IMO, it's going to be the Spanish flu all over again. I doubt that we are going to see the high death rate like the 1918 flu, but we could easily see our hospitals overwhelmed. In turn, this could increase the death rate. Less ICU beds could mean higher rates of death. More sick doctors, nurses in time could lead to a higher death count as well. I just don't see America changing their habits. Remember. Half of America believes that this is real. The other half believes that Covid19 is fake. Also, if you look at the Spanish flu it wasn't the first wave but the second that did the most damage. I also think what made America great like our independence will come back to harm us. Just look at mandatory mask wearing. In Asia, wearing a mask isn't a big issue. They tend to fall in line with government protocol. In America though? You can't tell me what to do. I'm an American! You see this all of the time on the news. Anyway, it's going to get very interesting.

What a COVID-19 Wave in the Fall Could Look Like

Experts are warning that the virus will continue to pose a public health threat throughout the spring and summer. Even if we do see a drop in infection rates, history suggests the pandemic may surge again later on.

www.healthline.com

 

[brycejones]

Already debating about rather or not we are going to send the kids to school in the fall.

 

[Mai72]

Already debating about rather or not we are going to send the kids to school in the fall.

Yea, that is another issue. Getting little kids to wear masks. And, what about the special needs population. High school kids? Are they going to wear masks when eating in a cafteria.

We were kids once. Teens don't like to listen to authorities.

 

[Grey_Beard]

I live in Florida. This is showing up now in place that were never hit in March. It is much worse here than ever before. We now have grocery store and restaurant workers getting sick en masse. Notices going to let the public know. This is new. Still, many do not wear a mask and say, “We need herd immunity!” These boneheads barely know what herd means. It’s a mess. Agree that this is not as deadly as the Fort Riley Flu, but this will reach a death toll we have not seen many times in this country.

 

[nOOky]

Those people that just wanted to let the virus run it's course are probably happy. That's almost what is happening, in a painfully slow way thanks to our lack of leadership these past few months. I bet in a few years people will have wished we would have just ripped the band aid off rather than slow down the economy. Screw a few old people, we have important lives to live and our hair needs cutting.

 

[Mai72]

I live in Florida. This is showing up now in place that were never hit in March. It is much worse here than ever before. We now have grocery store and restaurant workers getting sick en masse. Notices going to let the public know. This is new. Still, many do not wear a mask and say, “We need herd immunity!” These boneheads barely know what herd means. It’s a mess. Agree that this is not as deadly as the Fort Riley Flu, but this will reach a death toll we have not seen many times in this country.

People love to think that they are doctors and scientist. They will watch a few YT videos, read a few blogs on FB and think they know everything about this virus. It's why you see 18 year old frikin kids on YT giving nutritional advice. Then, selling a course as well. With merch to boot. I love the internet, but there is so much mis-information out there as well. Also, have you noticed that the people who aren't taking this seriously, or coming up with conspiracy theories typically have only a HS education? I've noticed that with the people who I interact with. I almost got into an argument with this guy who pumps my gas. A frekin gas attendant who thinks he's a scientist. lol.. He's the same guy whose a vegan, smokes cigarettes and thinks most cancer comes from red meat. Umm.. you smoke like a pack a day. Ignorance.

 

[Grey_Beard]

People love to think that they are doctors and scientist. They will watch a few YT videos, read a few blogs on FB and think they know everything about this virus. It's why you see 18 year old frikin kids on YT giving nutritional advice. Then, selling a course as well. With merch to boot. I love the internet, but there is so much mis-information out there as well. Also, have you noticed that the people who aren't taking this seriously, or coming up with conspiracy theories typically have only a HS education? I've noticed that with the people who I interact with. I almost got into an argument with this guy who pumps my gas. A frekin gas attendant who thinks he's a scientist. lol.. He's the same guy whose a vegan, smokes cigarettes and thinks most cancer comes from red meat. Umm.. you smoke like a pack a day. Ignorance.

The situation we are in is one created by high school education. My mother had only a high school diploma, but she was a critical thinker. My dad, only eighth grade, still another critical thinker. This was education in the 1930’s and 1940’s. This is why we established ourselves as a great economy. Everyone, or virtually everyone, had critical thinking abilities. Not many got a college degree, let alone a Master’s or PhD. Today so many have these advanced degree, they are almost meaningless. Especially when during this 20 year journey they are not taught how to think critically. Now high school graduates are left with little skills other than an ability to take standardized tests. Our education system is an abomination.

You couple this with the endless fodder on the internet, boom, you get this rampant “truthiness.” Truth is not truth, fake news, etc. Some have spent so much energy tearing this stuff down, there is no wonder why we are here. There are consequences for this behavior.

Dismantle the government, actively push against science, say all news is fake leads to a government not equipped to respond when we need them to and a society where conspiracy theories run rampant. The anti vaccine movement started over a discredited study, but after countless publications that refute it, you still have a group that thinks vaccines cause autism. Just one example.

Then you have this virus. We need a federal government coordinated effort, a society that believes science and one that thinks critically. Looks like we struck out. Three pitches, three swings that are no where near the pitch.

Edit: Spelling and wordsmithing.

 

[kage69]

More of a reckoning where those on the right keep losing their culture war and political prospects, to the benefit of the country. Conservatives have a substantial body count to reflect upon and hopefully take science and common sense a little more seriously from now on. It should be abundantly clear to any functional adult that banana republican priorities just don't work.

 

[zinfamous]

More of a reckoning where those on the right keep losing their culture war and political prospects, to the benefit of the country. Conservatives have a substantial body count to reflect upon and hopefully take science and common sense a little more seriously.

look at that, people who gain success by creating art vs those who gain success by injecting poison.

 

[Muse]

The Spanish Flu is thought to have killed around 700,000 in the USA, some estimates are 50,000,000 world wide. The way things are going it's conceivable that Covid-19 will kill 700,000 in the USA. It's not impossible at all. I've heard expert say 250,000 by the end of this year (it may have been earlier than that, I think it was) is definitely in the cards here.

If a viable effective vaccine turns out to be problematical, we could easily top a million, very easily.

The Spanish Flu, it is thought that the more, much more lethal 2nd wave was in large part because it mutated to a more lethal strain, I believe about August, 1918.

I don't think that 1/2 of Americans think Covid-19 is fake. I haven't heard of any polling numbers. Where do you get that?

Yes, the streak in Americans thinking that they have some solemn right to do whatever the fuck they please as a birth right is evidence of national insanity.

Look, seat belt laws and motorcycle laws and helmets for kids on bikes may have had resisters, but those are the law and are enforced. There's no good reason that mask wearing can't be likewise enforced. In my state you can't drive your car if it doesn't pass smog. Mask wearing is very arguably much more important to the survival of the nation than those other laws, not even close.

 

[Grey_Beard]

The Spanish Flu is thought to have killed around 700,000 in the USA, some estimates are 50,000,000 world wide. The way things are going it's conceivable that Covid-19 will kill 700,000 in the USA. It's not impossible at all. I've heard expert say 250,000 by the end of this year (it may have been earlier than that, I think it was) is definitely in the cards here.

If a viable effective vaccine turns out to be problematical, we could easily top a million, very easily.

The Spanish Flu, it is thought that the more, much more lethal 2nd wave was in large part because it mutated to a more lethal strain, I believe about August, 1918.

I don't think that 1/2 of Americans think Covid-19 is fake. I haven't heard of any polling numbers. Where do you get that?

Yes, the streak in Americans thinking that they have some solemn right to do whatever the fuck they please as a birth right is evidence of national insanity.

Look, seat belt laws and motorcycle laws and helmets for kids on bikes may have had resisters, but those are the law and are enforced. There's no good reason that mask wearing can't be likewise enforced. In my state you can't drive your car if it doesn't pass smog. Mask wearing is very arguably much more important to the survival of the nation than those other laws, not even close.

I call that the Fort Riley Flu given the jagoffs that want to call this the Wuhan Flu. I also read somewhere, I think National Geographic, that some scientists think this also originated in China, but we cannot say for certain. The second wave was worse in America than in Europe and Asia, as a percentage of total deaths. They estimate 1/4 of the World’s population got infected.

The last major one was the Hong Kong Flu. It had two waves also. We did not lockdown, but the population was healthier than today, but still 100,000 died in the States. The second wave was not that severe here, but in Europe and Asia it was worse than the initial wave. These all depend.

I would also expect this to mutate. When it does, expect it to hit the younger population harder, as that is how mutations work. Let’s hope it does not, but based what we have seen this last week it is an indication of something much worse coming. Not scared, but alarmed and concerned.

Kind of like when the Chinese shut down Wuhan late last year. I work in health care and I looked at my wife and said, “This is serious.” When then ordered a bunch of masks, hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes and gloves. Still using them now.

Folks around me were saying, “Nothing to worry about here. It just the seasonal flu.” Clearly not.

 

[cytg111]

More of a reckoning where those on the right keep losing their culture war and political prospects, to the benefit of the country. Conservatives have a substantial body count to reflect upon and hopefully take science and common sense a little more seriously.

You know, in communist China, those false prophets would all be in reeducation camps.

 

[UNCjigga]

All I know is that somehow the North/NE will end up paying for Reconstruction *again*, and the South will still hate them.

 

[kage69]

All I know is that somehow the North/NE will end up paying for Reconstruction *again*, and the South will still hate them.

Hope another black guy doesn't try to give them healthcare or get their kids access to healthier foods. They seem to prefer getting robbed by corporations, having environmental and school standards gutted, while they're being exposed to pandemics by narcissistic assholes then blaming liberals for it.

It would be nice to see the South jump into the 21st century with the rest of us. There are signs of improvement though. I noticed that banana republican hole of sweat and poverty we call Mississippi is finally getting serious about not honoring traitors with their state flag. Baby steps, decades too late, but it's something I guess.

 

[Grey_Beard]

All I know is that somehow the North/NE will end up paying for Reconstruction *again*, and the South will still hate them.

It’s not like any place there generates any GDP. The counties tRump won in 16 generated 36% of the economic output for the US. Like Governor Cuomo said, “...they are takers. We are the ones who give to them.”

Another Clinton-Trump divide: High-output America vs low-output America | Brookings

While looking at number of influences on the presidential vote outcome, we found that in a year of massive divides, one particular economic split stands out. With few exceptions Clinton won every large-sized county economy in the country.

www.brookings.edu

 

[kage69]

More of a reckoning where those on the right keep losing their culture war and political prospects, to the benefit of the country. Conservatives have a substantial body count to reflect upon and hopefully take science and common sense a little more seriously.

In the spirit of fairness, I feel I must append that post with an update. Even though I cannot stand him and those like him, Joel Osteen might be trying to practice some of the values he's been preaching about. He and his wife donated $100k to a food bank in Houston. Seems a little light given his wealth, but he is at least one step above the other conmen and frauds here. Personally I'm not that convinced. I think this was more about him wanting to avoid a repeat of the roasting he got after Hurricane Harvey, when he was more concerned about the condition of his church than that of the community he leeches money from (while paying no taxes).

 

[Grey_Beard]

Hope another black guy doesn't try to give them healthcare or get their kids access to healthier foods. They seem to prefer getting robbed by corporations, having environmental and school standards gutted, when they're not being exposed to pandemics by narcissistic assholes and blaming liberals for it.

It would be nice to see the South jump into the 21st century with the rest of us. There are signs of improvement though. I noticed that banana republican hole of sweat and poverty we call Mississippi is finally getting serious about not honoring traitors with their state flag. Baby steps, decades too late, but it's something I guess.

Like Florida. We pay no SIT, but we operate at a $30 Billion deficit. I like not paying that, but I would rather pay the right taxes and get better benefits. Our unemployment compensation is the lowest in the nation. No wonder the people trying to get it down here have to wait 6 months for the woefully understaffed State to process the claims. The payments for Medicaid services is also abysmal. This is crazy.

 

[Dulanic]

The result is a new president. Who knew Trump couldn't handle this?

 

[Commodus]

It's going to be a rough fall, although there is hope (however modest) for a vaccine to be ready by then. Things will start to look up in earnest if (and hopefully when) Biden takes office in January, as adults will finally be in charge of the pandemic response. Things won't magically improve in that case, as Biden will be inheriting a mess, but it's better to start cleaning up than to not clean up at all.

The sad thing is knowing that hundreds of thousands of lives, not to mention more of the economy, could've been protected if Trump weren't in office. Even if it were another Republican... someone, anyone who saw the virus as a threat to more than just their reelection chances.

 

[fleshconsumed]

In one of the previous COVID-19 threads I said I was very happy about local community wearing masks. Sadly, looks like people have finally had it. Today while grocery shopping I saw one guy without mask whatsoever, and multiple customers and store employees wearing masks incorrectly below their nose.

 

[Muse]

Kind of like when the Chinese shut down Wuhan late last year. I work in health care and I looked at my wife and said, “This is serious.” When then ordered a bunch of masks, hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes and gloves. Still using them now.

Folks around me were saying, “Nothing to worry about here. It just the seasonal flu.” Clearly not.

When I saw video of the Chinese locking down Wuhan I knew this was coming.

I already had the masks from wildfire seasons. Didn't buy hand sanitizer or sanitizing wipes and by the time I realized I wanted some they were impossible to get. I ordered 500 gloves, though. I had a box already, but was running low. I use them around the house, I'm a handy kind of guy (who likes to keep his hands healthy).

People are dumb about infectious diseases usually. Complacency. Myself, I realize that infectious disease is and has always been a major threat to the human race. We've conquered a few, we have had no real answer for some others. But new ones can and do pop up and they are potentially as bad as any in history. One may pop up that kills us off.

Free download at Guttenberg Project, it deals with this theme exactly, was written 100 years ago and in many ways is amazingly accurate in terms of prediction of 21st century conditions. I read this less than 2 months ago, it's a novellete:

Jack London's The Scarlet Plague

 

[Muse]

Hope another black guy doesn't try to give them healthcare or get their kids access to healthier foods. They seem to prefer getting robbed by corporations, having environmental and school standards gutted, while they're being exposed to pandemics by narcissistic assholes and blaming liberals for it.

It would be nice to see the South jump into the 21st century with the rest of us. There are signs of improvement though. I noticed that banana republican hole of sweat and poverty we call Mississippi is finally getting serious about not honoring traitors with their state flag. Baby steps, decades too late, but it's something I guess.

TBH I was shocked to see yesterday that the confederate flag exists in the corner of Mississippi's flag. What morons.

 

[Muse]

The result is a new president. Who knew Trump couldn't handle this?

I said the day he was swearing in (not sworn, but swearing, as usual) I predicted that there would be a few (around 3) major crises that he would completely screw up. This is the biggie. He is way in over his head. I saw video of him saying this very week (vehemently, waving his arms as he does, like he's playing an accordion) that he wants less testing because it makes it appear to people that the problem is bigger than he wants them to think. To him, that's the issue... how afraid people are, not what case numbers mean in terms of how we respond to the situation in terms of policy. All that stuff seems like noise to him. Epidemiology is completely beyond him and he habitually tries to sell his product, which is mainly his real estate interests: casinos, hotels, golf courses, office buildings/space ... i.e congregating, mostly discretionary recreational activities, all of which are taking a huge hit with people fearing the pandemic. We don't know the details of his holdings because he keeps them secret, but I strongly suspect that he's deeply in debt and in danger of imminent bankruptcy... again. He's much more concerned with that than any thought of managing a path to survival and recovery of the nation, which are beyond his ken in any case.

 

[kage69]

TBH I was shocked to see yesterday that the confederate flag exists in the corner of Mississippi's flag. What morons.

The ones mostly in charge are morons, I'll agree with that. Gov hasn't been shy about not wanting to do it.

 

[MtnMan]

The Spanish Flu is thought to have killed around 700,000 in the USA, some estimates are 50,000,000 world wide. The way things are going it's conceivable that Covid-19 will kill 700,000 in the USA. It's not impossible at all. I've heard expert say 250,000 by the end of this year (it may have been earlier than that, I think it was) is definitely in the cards here.

If a viable effective vaccine turns out to be problematical, we could easily top a million, very easily.

I don't think that he experts that say 250,000 factored in the complete lunacy and regard for people of that shit stain Trump. I started a thread (https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/how-many-americans-will-die-due-to-trump’s-indifference-and-incompetence-to-covid-19.2577639/) in February understanding that the mentally ill Trump will throw millions under the bus if he benefits from it. He is as reprehensible as Hitler, Mussolini, Mao Tse-tung, Joseph Stalin, and many other despots from history.

The Spanish Flu, it is thought that the more, much more lethal 2nd wave was in large part because it mutated to a more lethal strain, I believe about August, 1918.

I don't think that 1/2 of Americans think Covid-19 is fake. I haven't heard of any polling numbers. Where do you get that?

Not 1/2, but I fear it approaches 40%, typically those that still support the shit stain. Easy to spot with MAGA hats and without a mask.

Yes, the streak in Americans thinking that they have some solemn right to do whatever the fuck they please as a birth right is evidence of national insanity.

Look, seat belt laws and motorcycle laws and helmets for kids on bikes may have had resisters, but those are the law and are enforced. There's no good reason that mask wearing can't be likewise enforced. In my state you can't drive your car if it doesn't pass smog. Mask wearing is very arguably much more important to the survival of the nation than those other laws, not even close.

There are laws on the books that mandate that everyone wear pants. Where is the outrage, why does that also not infringe on our constitutional rights?