Court Rules It a Human Rights Violation To Deny the Junkie Heroin

[Elias824]

if this were any other drug I would agree. However to go cold turky off of heroin is a huge medical problem, you have to be waned off with methadone. its not an issue of do they deserve to have more drugs, it an issue of if they are allowed to reasonable medical care in prison. Would you prefer the UK be responsible for the deaths of people they were in charge of taking care of while incarcerated

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'll never get the punishment hardon that people have for prisoners. Prisons and the state have the responsibility to look after the basic health and wellbeing of people they decide to incarcerate, for obvious reasons. Methadone is cheap, highly available, and highly effective. The guy wasn't in jail for being addicted to heroin, and suffering hideous withdrawal symptoms wasn't part of his sentence either.

If you think the guy should have been punished more for whatever crimes they committed that's fine, and maybe I'd even be with you on that. The whole fixation on punishment to the exclusion of easy, safe, effective, and cheap actions being taken by the state to mitigate severe suffering of the prisoners unrelated to the punishment awarded by the courts seems silly to me though.

Because a lot of people have no concept of compassion because they've had privileged lives with no hardships and they expect others to live up their limited understanding.

Oh yes, compassion blah blah. More of the same typical argument of removing personal responsibility for one's actions. Unless someone was holding a gun to your head to make you a heroin addict, it's your own fault. Cry me a river with al the "privileged" nonsense, people are responsible for their choices and actions, not other people or society.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: BoberFett


You know the soviets would have just taken you out back and shot you.

Another 12 year old poster? What is your damage? And what does this have to do with the OP?

WWYBYWB?

BOBDN/BBOND/ / / ?

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: Dari
It's the British, what else do you expect? They've fallen very far since losing their empire.

But yet they have better health overall then Americans and higher life expactancys.
If that is sinking then I guess we are sunk.

I'll take worse health care any day of the year if I get to keep my principles.

Good to see you're also willing to give other people worse health care so you can keep your principles.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: BoberFett


You know the soviets would have just taken you out back and shot you.

Another 12 year old poster? What is your damage? And what does this have to do with the OP?

WWYBYWB?

BOBDN/BBOND/ / / ?

Actually I was thinking Steeplerot.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: BoberFett


You know the soviets would have just taken you out back and shot you.

Another 12 year old poster? What is your damage? And what does this have to do with the OP?

WWYBYWB?

BOBDN/BBOND/ / / ?

Actually I was thinking Steeplerot.

That would be a good guess too.

 

[Arkaign]

Mountain of molehill. These people certainly shouldn't be coddled, but if denying them methadone will result in fatalities, it's probably best to let medical experts decide the best case and go with that.

Bad title in OP, making more of the linked article than is there.

 

[BoberFett]

I got a nice message from whoever the hell he is.

Check this one out, going over your posting history you are quite the little drama queen off your meds.
So I will play your childish game until you are ignored in the next 2 minutes.
Kinda curious Mr. I turned republican just in time to be a loser!
Is there anything in life you do not suck at? Oh yeah, I know one, my big red commie dick in your and ron pauls mouth O0o0o0!
Anyhow capitalist loser, welcome to my special douchebag ignore list. You are the second winner! (feel proud you actually won something -finally roflmao)

 

[Zebo]

Muslims can't take over UK soon enough. Free and permanent drug treatment.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Muslims can't take over UK soon enough. Free and permanent drug treatment.

You appear to be calling for the death of drug addicts. If that's right, do you not see any strange similarity between what you're calling for and the death edicts that frequently come from the crazy fringes of radical Islam?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
I got a nice message from whoever the hell he is.

Check this one out, going over your posting history you are quite the little drama queen off your meds.
So I will play your childish game until you are ignored in the next 2 minutes.
Kinda curious Mr. I turned republican just in time to be a loser!
Is there anything in life you do not suck at? Oh yeah, I know one, my big red commie dick in your and ron pauls mouth O0o0o0!
Anyhow capitalist loser, welcome to my special douchebag ignore list. You are the second winner! (feel proud you actually won something -finally roflmao)

Man, I feel left out... I've gotten those sorts of twisted panty PMs from 1 or 2 others but not from big red commie... <sniffle>

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'll never get the punishment hardon that people have for prisoners. Prisons and the state have the responsibility to look after the basic health and wellbeing of people they decide to incarcerate, for obvious reasons. Methadone is cheap, highly available, and highly effective. The guy wasn't in jail for being addicted to heroin, and suffering hideous withdrawal symptoms wasn't part of his sentence either.

If you think the guy should have been punished more for whatever crimes they committed that's fine, and maybe I'd even be with you on that. The whole fixation on punishment to the exclusion of easy, safe, effective, and cheap actions being taken by the state to mitigate severe suffering of the prisoners unrelated to the punishment awarded by the courts seems silly to me though.

It has nothing to do with prisoners or drug addicts. It's just that the people you're talking about want to act like assholes, and those are two groups of people it's semi-acceptable to be assholes towards. No need to look for a complex sociological reason behind it, it's not about the prisoners, it's about the people making the comments.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed
I am sure they mean methadone, if you have known what junkies go through or helped close friends kick H you would understand.
If you do not you I will respectfully say you have no reason or credibility to be making a judgement call on a serious medical issue. H addiction is physical and your body is not producing needed stuff in your brain thanks to tolerance.
It is basiclly like denying someone functioning kidneys or a liver.
I think I would rather be waterboarded or have my fingernails slowly pulled out. We are not talking about kicking cigs or denying someone weed.
Besides the fact that it is life-threatening to make a serious addict go cold-turkey. A junkies heart WILL stop randomly. Besides the worst imaginable agony they go through. It is a nightmare and I would count your blessings for being ignorant of what these folks go through.
H is terrible as it literally becomes part of the function of the body.
Empty rhetoric about personal choice/responsibility and all ends when someone becomes a junkie, that choice and pretty much that person is gone once your body adjusts to H in the system. It becomes another physical need no less important then oxygen or food.
Bad shit, I recommend people to NEVER get near it if you value anything about yourself.
Becasue once you do, whoever you are as a person is gone and given over to opiates.

What you say may all be relative. But to compare with holding heroin to be the same as denying someone a liver or kidneys. Or to denying someone Oxygen or food.

The former, going cold turkey can be fatal, but they are still alive obviously or they would not be suing. Denying someone a kidney, or food and oxygen would most assuredly be fatal.

One is a psychoactive drug, the other are actual necessities. One is what the brain "thinks is happening" the other "is really happening"

We all know that mental conditions affect our physical bodies, but taking someone off a poison that is harming them both mentally and physically on its own, not to mention changing the way the brain works, so that withdrawal of the chemical will also cause harm" should only be seen as a good thing. With proper medical attention the person shouldn't die from the come down.

 

[mxyzptlk]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
... it's probably best to let medical experts decide the best case and go with that.

No need, SilthDraeth has it covered.

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

With proper medical attention the person shouldn't die from the come down.

See, he says it's okay.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Mountain of molehill. These people certainly shouldn't be coddled, but if denying them methadone will result in fatalities, it's probably best to let medical experts decide the best case and go with that.

Bad title in OP, making more of the linked article than is there.

Exactly. People have such a hardon for punishing hard drug users that they forget this issue isn't about encouraging or discouraging drug use. It is simply a legal matter and should be evaluated as such, which requires entirely different criteria for judgement. The question is: Is supplying methadone consistent with the standards for proper care of those who are incarcerated?

IOW, "Drugs are bad, mkay?" doesn't apply here. Push your morals and "pussification" statements elsewhere, because this is a legal question.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Also, universal healthcare != socialized medicine. I know some like to say things over and over to try to convince the masses they are correct, but its basically lying to avoid a real debate.

Get used to it - while those tactics may be devised by those in a position to manipulate, many people on this board will continue to mindlessly parrot those misnomers and intellectual contradictions.

I'm amazed at people who still use the word "communist" with any semblance of outrage. Commies are so 1980's - get with the times people! At least have the good sense to call me a more modern buzzword like "terrorist" when I claim to support UHC and labor unions. It carries the same level of intellectual honesty, so why not go for the gusto???

 

[SilthDraeth]

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/herowith.htm

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/herowith.htm

This is quite the informative article. Problem is a lot of users do try to detox themselves, but the success rate is abysmially low.
Some drugs can be street bought to help along with methadone, but they are notoriously expensive (selmas for example) generally someone who has decided to kick is doign so because they are broke. Buying 500$ in pills to kick is not a possibility when you have burned your bridges.
Sometimes the best thing that happens to these folks I hate to say is going to jail. Where they can get structured withdrawl treatments of anti-anxiety and methadone of course.

But then the vast majority of the time they are right back on within hours of getting out as the physical need and psychological kicks in. Junkies are notorious for not following any kind of ttreatment plans. A lot of it has to do with who people surround themselves with, there is a whole underground culture that people get into. Which inevitably they get trapped right back into.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/herowith.htm

This is quite the informative article. Problem is a lot of users do try to detox themselves, but the success rate is abysmially low.
Some drugs can be street bought to help along with methadone, but they are notoriously expensive (selmas for example) generally someone who has decided to kick is doign so because they are broke. Buying 500$ in pills to kick is not a possibility when you have burned your bridges.
Sometimes the best thing that happens to these folks I hate to say is going to jail. Where they can get structured withdrawl treatments of anti-anxiety and methadone of course.

But then the vast majority of the time they are right back on within hours of getting out as the physical need and psychological kicks in. Junkies are notorious for not following any kind of ttreatment plans. A lot of it has to do with who people surround themselves with, there is a whole underground culture that people get into. Which inevitably they get trapped right back into.

He sure knows a lot about withdrawal to be calling others losers. I guess it takes one to know one.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: TheRedUnderURBed

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/herowith.htm

This is quite the informative article. Problem is a lot of users do try to detox themselves, but the success rate is abysmially low.
Some drugs can be street bought to help along with methadone, but they are notoriously expensive (selmas for example) generally someone who has decided to kick is doign so because they are broke. Buying 500$ in pills to kick is not a possibility when you have burned your bridges.
Sometimes the best thing that happens to these folks I hate to say is going to jail. Where they can get structured withdrawl treatments of anti-anxiety and methadone of course.

But then the vast majority of the time they are right back on within hours of getting out as the physical need and psychological kicks in. Junkies are notorious for not following any kind of ttreatment plans. A lot of it has to do with who people surround themselves with, there is a whole underground culture that people get into. Which inevitably they get trapped right back into.

He sure knows a lot about withdrawal to be calling others losers. I guess it takes one to know one.

Yeah, seems your guess is likely more correct than mine.

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Elias824
if this were any other drug I would agree. However to go cold turky off of heroin is a huge medical problem, you have to be waned off with methadone. its not an issue of do they deserve to have more drugs, it an issue of if they are allowed to reasonable medical care in prison. Would you prefer the UK be responsible for the deaths of people they were in charge of taking care of while incarcerated

They caused their own death.

I have to laugh at the lefties who file compulsive gambling, drug addiction, AIDS, and many others under the category of so called 'medical' conditions. Apparently its the taxpayers job to bailout stupidity.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Elias824
if this were any other drug I would agree. However to go cold turky off of heroin is a huge medical problem, you have to be waned off with methadone. its not an issue of do they deserve to have more drugs, it an issue of if they are allowed to reasonable medical care in prison. Would you prefer the UK be responsible for the deaths of people they were in charge of taking care of while incarcerated

They caused their own death.

I have to laugh at the lefties who file compulsive gambling, drug addiction, AIDS, and many others under the category of so called 'medical' conditions. Apparently its the taxpayers job to bailout stupidity.

And apparently its your job to cultivate it? Again, for those in the back, its not a question of "drugs are bad", or "libruls are pusies", its a question of standards for medical care. You don't know anything about medicine or law, and very little about objectivity, and that is why opinions like yours generally aren't considered by those responsible for these decisions.

I say 'generally' because of course there are politicians in the mix, who have to weigh even the jerkiest of knee-jerk reactions from their constituents...

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: winnar111

Originally posted by: Elias824
if this were any other drug I would agree. However to go cold turky off of heroin is a huge medical problem, you have to be waned off with methadone. its not an issue of do they deserve to have more drugs, it an issue of if they are allowed to reasonable medical care in prison. Would you prefer the UK be responsible for the deaths of people they were in charge of taking care of while incarcerated

They caused their own death.

I have to laugh at the lefties who file compulsive gambling, drug addiction, AIDS, and many others under the category of so called 'medical' conditions. Apparently its the taxpayers job to bailout stupidity.

If idiocy got a bailout, you would be getting large sums. It's not the case. You simply fail to understand the issues, as usual.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: winnar111
Just give em enough to OD and save the taxpayers some money.

Be sure to include the alcoholics in that, too. Ass.

 

[BoberFett]

What's silly about the whole thing is that I'm not even against helping people kick bad habits. I'd much rather see drugs decriminalized and people put into treatment programs rather than jail. I simply don't think it rises to the level of a fundamental human right. There's a big difference between providing something to your fellow man because you want to help and providing something because you have no choice.