Court OKs Firing Over Confederate Flag

[Moonbeam]

I guess there's some tension bound up in that old flag. I can see why the courts might have ruled as they did.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I guess there's some tension bound up in that old flag. I can see why the courts might have ruled as they did.

I thought it was the sexual tension between you and I Moonie!

 

[mugs]

You seem to be a very angry person.

Nope just tired of morons who argue straight out of a textbook.

I'm not arguing straight out of a textbook.

I know the Civil War had little to do with slavery. I know it was about states' rights. I know reconstruction was a terrible time.

Ok I have already said that.

And I was acknowledging that you are correct.

That is what it seemed like. Who really cares? Your true colors and education are showing right now!

Haha...

Was that flag a symbol of the heritage of all southerners, or just the white ones who oppressed the blacks through Jim Crow segregation?

All Southerners. Well at least the ones Jessie Jackson hasn't gotten to or the revisionist BS hasn't affected. BTW, what is the relevance of Jim Crow laws to this discussion? Is that not just an inflammatory fallacious argument on your behalf? Surely those Southerners beat those black people. Destroy their heritage and their flag. No wonder there is more racial strife and segregation in the North. Want to know the least segregated place in the US? The South.

Until you have boneheads like those high school students in Georgia who have their segregated prom and make you all look bad. I brought up Jim Crow segregation because during and after reconstruction, when that flag meant so much to every southerner, black or white (according to you), the south was doing everything it could to continue to oppress blacks.

Never had a "non-revisionist history" class. Did they teach you to be a fvcking moron in Indiana or was that an inherited trait?

Man, you sure know how to formulate an argument.

Why would I give a monkey's ass about that? It doesn't give you qualifications to speak BS about something.

I thought you might be more willing to take me seriously if you knew I wasn't just some "yankee" who'd never been to the south. Although I live in New Jersey, my mother's family is from Alabama.

The main issue here is whether a black man ought to be offended by a confederate flag. I realize not everyone who puts a confederate flag sticker on their lunchbox is a racist or does it for racist intent. But you ought to at least concede that there are some who do use it as a symbol of their racism. For that you can thank the Ku Klux Klan.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I guess there's some tension bound up in that old flag. I can see why the courts might have ruled as they did.

As can I. Better safe than sorry, eh?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

You seem to be a very angry person.

Nope just tired of morons who argue straight out of a textbook.

I'm not arguing straight out of a textbook.

I know the Civil War had little to do with slavery. I know it was about states' rights. I know reconstruction was a terrible time.

Ok I have already said that.

And I was acknowledging that you are correct.

That is what it seemed like. Who really cares? Your true colors and education are showing right now!

Haha...

Was that flag a symbol of the heritage of all southerners, or just the white ones who oppressed the blacks through Jim Crow segregation?

All Southerners. Well at least the ones Jessie Jackson hasn't gotten to or the revisionist BS hasn't affected. BTW, what is the relevance of Jim Crow laws to this discussion? Is that not just an inflammatory fallacious argument on your behalf? Surely those Southerners beat those black people. Destroy their heritage and their flag. No wonder there is more racial strife and segregation in the North. Want to know the least segregated place in the US? The South.

Until you have boneheads like those high school students in Georgia who have their segregated prom and make you all look bad. I brought up Jim Crow segregation because during and after reconstruction, when that flag meant so much to every southerner, black or white (according to you), the south was doing everything it could to continue to oppress blacks.

Never had a "non-revisionist history" class. Did they teach you to be a fvcking moron in Indiana or was that an inherited trait?

Man, you sure know how to formulate an argument.

Why would I give a monkey's ass about that? It doesn't give you qualifications to speak BS about something.

I thought you might be more willing to take me seriously if you knew I wasn't just some "yankee" who'd never been to the south. Although I live in New Jersey, my mother's family is from Alabama.

The main issue here is whether a black man ought to be offended by a confederate flag. I realize not everyone who puts a confederate flag sticker on their lunchbox is a racist or does it for racist intent. But you ought to at least concede that there are some who do use it as a symbol of their racism. For that you can thank the Ku Klux Klan.

No you can't blame a group for these things. You blame the ignorant morons who started the group and join it. The KKK is nothing these days, and most people didn't support them to begin with. A group of idiots doesn't get support anywhere.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I guess there's some tension bound up in that old flag. I can see why the courts might have ruled as they did.

As can I. Better safe than sorry, eh?

I will be damned that my first post in this thread didn't have me agreeing with the courts too.

 

[mugs]

No you can't blame a group for these things. You blame the ignorant morons who started the group and join it. The KKK is nothing these days, and most people didn't support them to begin with. A group of idiots doesn't get support anywhere.

And it is unfortunate that the KKK is a very vocal and visible group that makes the south look bad by waving their confederate flags and wearing their hoods.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

No you can't blame a group for these things. You blame the ignorant morons who started the group and join it. The KKK is nothing these days, and most people didn't support them to begin with. A group of idiots doesn't get support anywhere.

And it is unfortunate that the KKK is a very vocal and visible group that makes the south look bad by waving their confederate flags and wearing their hoods.

Umm... no. Point me to the KKK making news in the past 20 or so years. It is rare they ever hold a rally anymore. A majority of their activity is in the Midwest now.

 

[mugs]

Umm... no. Point me to the KKK making news in the past 20 or so years. It is rare they ever hold a rally anymore. A majority of their activity is in the Midwest now.

But when they do have their rallies and such, they always make the news. I remember a few years back they made the national news because NYC wouldn't let them hold a rally wearing their hoods. I didn't mean to imply that all of the Klan is in the south, but we "yanks" equate the KKK with the south nonetheless.

Let me clarify what I'm trying to say...
While the confederate flag may be a symbol of your southern heritage, and I'm sure you would have no racist intent if you flew it in front of your house down in Alabama... it is not unreasonable for African-Americans to see it as a symbol of racism thank to a few yokels who put on their white hoods, waved their confederate flags, and burned crosses. Can we agree on that?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Umm... no. Point me to the KKK making news in the past 20 or so years. It is rare they ever hold a rally anymore. A majority of their activity is in the Midwest now.

But when they do have their rallies and such, they always make the news. I remember a few years back they made the national news because NYC wouldn't let them hold a rally wearing their hoods. I didn't mean to imply that all of the Klan is in the south, but we "yanks" equate the KKK with the south nonetheless.

Let me clarify what I'm trying to say...
While the confederate flag may be a symbol of your southern heritage, and I'm sure you would have no racist intent if you flew it in front of your house down in Alabama... it is not unreasonable for African-Americans to see it as a symbol of racism thank to a few yokels who put on their white hoods, waved their confederate flags, and burned crosses. Can we agree on that?

Pretty much yes.

 

[Insane3D]

Moron is one of Millenium's favorite words...he used it at least 5 times in this thread alone. His method of arguing is to just call people moron's and idiots who disagree with him...

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Moron is one of Millenium's favorite words...he used it at least 5 times in this thread alone. His method of arguing is to just call people moron's and idiots who disagree with him...

If the shoe fits...

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Moron is one of Millenium's favorite words...he used it at least 5 times in this thread alone. His method of arguing is to just call people moron's and idiots who disagree with him...

If the shoe fits...

You wear it.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
A confederate flag is no longer a flag, it's a symbol. There is no country to which it any longer appertains. An American flag or African flag may be a symbol, but it is also a flag of a real country. I see a difference in expressing your nationality as opposed to your philosophy. I'm not so sure the courts would say it wouldn't be OK to desplay a real flag.

"Expressing your nationality" could easily be construed as a political message, especially when the flag displayed is not one's own country (an American displaying an African nation's flag, for instance). For a US flag displayed by an American, I could only see a California court disagreeing with that right to display, but for another country's flag, I could see wider support for keeping it out of the workplace.

I went to a military college that fought for the Confederacy and had 10 cadets killed in action or as a result of wounds received in action. If I display the Confederate battle flag, I would construe it as a tribute to those who fell in battle while marching under that very flag. It's not a political message; it's a memorial to fallen soldiers who died on American soil. Would that be acceptable from the "intent" perspective?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: Insane3D
Moron is one of Millenium's favorite words...he used it at least 5 times in this thread alone. His method of arguing is to just call people moron's and idiots who disagree with him...

If the shoe fits...

You wear it.

Says the guy who lied about his Mustang. Right!

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: Millennium


Says the guy who lied about his Mustang. Right!

Care to point out where that lie was? I would be interested to see where I did that since I have rarely ever talked about my car here..

Edit: I am assuming you are talking about this thread.

I said..

Yeah yeah...I guess you have never heard of modifications? The only thing stock on my car is the block and pistons.

You said..

So you have aftermarket rods, heads, cams, etc, but not pistons?

And I replied..

I guess I should have been more specific. The block, pistons, and rods and crank are stock. I have the FMS GT40X heads, GT-40 Intake, and a custom ground cam from a local 5.0 shop. I have a 1992 GT which was the last year they came with forged pistons stock. The pistons I have are plenty strong for what my motor is making. All Mustangs post '92, with maybe the exception of the newer Cobra's come with Hypeuretic pistons AFAIK. I will try to be more clear next time.

If that's what you are talking about, I fail to see where I lied. If anything, I oversimplified, but I clarified my statement for you. If you want to call it a lie, then feel free, I will try to continue on with my life, although it will be quite hard.

 

[Zebo]

I think they are both being petty. My understanding is the confederate flag means different thigs to different people. Some, actually most southeners I know think it's indicative of thier rebel spirit exemplified by states rights, independant spirit, and unwillingness to comform to "Yankee Laws". Then we have the hardcore racists who have choosen this as thier flag. So natually this ruins the ideals of the former. Sad Really.

Back to the case. Obviously the Black guy was offended. Perhaps it was the White guys attitude along with his tribute to stars and bars, we are not getting the whole story. When asked to remove it because it did offend a co-worker the white guy was unwilling. This says two things 1) he's just an ass and does'nt care about offending someone he works with daily and 2) he was obviously tring to make a "statment". Most of us would stop doing whats offensive to a large group if asked. He did'nt, it's private property and the business owners right IMO to fire anyone who is bad for business or makes the working enviroment hostile. This includes Nose Rings for counter help, Freaky hair styles, an abrasive employee, and a guy who bradishes a flag which is offensive.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Millennium


Says the guy who lied about his Mustang. Right!

Care to point out where that lie was? I would be interested to see where I did that since I have rarely ever talked about my car here..

Edit: I am assuming you are talking about this thread.

I said..

Yeah yeah...I guess you have never heard of modifications? The only thing stock on my car is the block and pistons.

You said..

So you have aftermarket rods, heads, cams, etc, but not pistons?

And I replied..

I guess I should have been more specific. The block, pistons, and rods and crank are stock. I have the FMS GT40X heads, GT-40 Intake, and a custom ground cam from a local 5.0 shop. I have a 1992 GT which was the last year they came with forged pistons stock. The pistons I have are plenty strong for what my motor is making. All Mustangs post '92, with maybe the exception of the newer Cobra's come with Hypeuretic pistons AFAIK. I will try to be more clear next time.

If that's what you are talking about, I fail to see where I lied. If anything, I oversimplified, but I clarified my statement for you. If you want to call it a lie, then feel free, I will try to continue on with my life, although it will be quite hard.

All those things were stock. That doesn't make sense why one second you would say nothin but A is stock, and then turn around and say you weren't being clear when actually I caught you in a lie.

 

[Insane3D]

All those things were stock. That doesn't make sense why one second you would say nothin but A is stock, and then turn around and say you weren't being clear when actually I caught you in a lie.

All what things? The rods and the crank? I wasn't in a car discussion, so I was being general. I said the only thing stock was the block and pistons. I meant by "the block and pistons" that the whole bottom end, rods, pistons, block, and crank were all stock. WTF would I change the crank and connecting rods, but not he pistons? You say you caught me in a lie, but what lie was that? Did I specifically say the rods and crank were not stock? No. That would have been a lie. I generalized. If you think that is lie, you are the one with the problem, and I really don't care. I'm perfectly comfortable letting other people decide for themselves if that was a lie or not....your opinion is of no importance to me.

Sort of like you are perfectly comfortable hurling insults to cover up for your inherently weak arguments. Insults are the tool of the ignorant...not to mention against the rules of this forum, but WTF do you care for rules?

I will let this thread get back on topic now.


Edit :

The most amusing part of all this is I actually agree with you on the topic of this thread. The irony..

 

[LunarRay]

Insane said

I will let this thread get back on topic now.


Edit :

The most amusing part of all this is I actually agree with you on the topic of this thread. The irony..[/quote]
**************
I believe a lie is an attempt to deceive. The knowledge of that act is resident in the mind of the person making the statement. If one does not believe a clarification to be proof of the absence of attempt to deceive then no further debate in the rational sense is possible.

My car is totaly stock save the nut loose on the steering wheel.

Now if you wish to rethreadacate so be it.


I see the confederate flag to be the flag of a country that once existed. The Confederacy split from the United States, formed a government, had a capital, Davis was President and it had all the typical National conditions. Now I'm not sure where it say's in our constitution that this was prohibited given all other powers is vested in the states.. Maybe I'm wrong but I a New Yorker have no problem with some one displaying a flag that represents their continuing sentiments. I an Irishman fly the tricolor of Ireland along side the Stars and Stripes and am equally proud of both... and a citizen of both. Yes one is a current country and one is not but, does that mean the flying of the confederate flag is wrong for the pride the folks hold ... me thinks not... even though I disagree with the cause of the issue that created the flag to start with... also in Ireland the protestant take great pride in marching with their orangeman colors down the catholic streets to flaunt... I find this not too nice but, I have the problem with the people not their colors.

edit how do you spell cessation?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

All those things were stock. That doesn't make sense why one second you would say nothin but A is stock, and then turn around and say you weren't being clear when actually I caught you in a lie.

All what things? The rods and the crank? I wasn't in a car discussion, so I was being general. I said the only thing stock was the block and pistons. I meant by "the block and pistons" that the whole bottom end, rods, pistons, block, and crank were all stock. WTF would I change the crank and connecting rods, but not he pistons? You say you caught me in a lie, but what lie was that? Did I specifically say the rods and crank were not stock? No. That would have been a lie. I generalized. If you think that is lie, you are the one with the problem, and I really don't care. I'm perfectly comfortable letting other people decide for themselves if that was a lie or not....your opinion is of no importance to me.

Sort of like you are perfectly comfortable hurling insults to cover up for your inherently weak arguments. Insults are the tool of the ignorant...not to mention against the rules of this forum, but WTF do you care for rules?

I will let this thread get back on topic now.




Edit :

The most amusing part of all this is I actually agree with you on the topic of this thread. The irony..

I am sorry you feel that way. You have your opinion and I have mine. I will refrain from using my weak arguments on you.

 

[Moonbeam]

"Expressing your nationality" could easily be construed as a political message, (I guess just about anything can be. I was wondering how a judge might think)especially when the flag displayed is not one's own country (an American displaying an African nation's flag, for instance). For a US flag displayed by an American, I could only see a California court disagreeing with that right to display, but for another country's flag, I could see wider support for keeping it out of the workplace.(Wider support probably but wide enough to affect a judge? I don't know)

I went to a military college that fought for the Confederacy and had 10 cadets killed in action or as a result of wounds received in action. If I display the Confederate battle flag, I would construe it as a tribute to those who fell in battle while marching under that very flag. It's not a political message; it's a memorial to fallen soldiers who died on American soil. Would that be acceptable from the "intent" perspective? (Where, on an Air Force base in Japan? I think the military might object. You're not serving the Confederacy.

 

[Insane3D]

You have your opinion and I have mine.

Exactly. This may also surprise you, but I actually respect your opinion. We may not always agree, but I still respect your opinion, and every once in awhile, we may just happen to agree. After all, we both love Mustangs, although yours is much nicer than mine I have to admit.

 

[0roo0roo]

i fly the nazi flag because i believe that no nation show bow down to those french weenies. nations rights!

 

[Nitemare]

He should have been fired, simply because he did not do what his boss wanted.

I would have quit or explained to the stupid easily offended person that the confederate flag means states rights to me and the ability of States to govern themselves without federal intrusion. I would have told him, yes I think slavery was wrong. I will not apologize to you because I was neither a slave owner nor was he ever a slave. The confederate(Dixie) flag means more than slavery. It's just those redneck mofo's in pointy white caps that give it a bad name. Let's ban crosses too since they like to burn them...

Coincidentally most of the extremists have moved to Idaho and Montana where they can have their space. There might be some ignorant hicks in remote places in the south but racism is more prevalent elsewhere.