Court declares Franken winner; Coleman to appeal

[Bitek]

After a trial spanning nearly three months, Norm Coleman?s attempt to reverse Al Franken?s lead in the recount of the U.S. Senate election was soundly rejected today by a three-judge panel that dismissed the Republican?s lawsuit. The judges swept away Coleman?s argument that the election and its aftermath were fraught with systemic errors that made the results invalid. ?The overwhelming weight of the evidence indicates that the Nov. 4, 2008, election was conducted fairly, impartially and accurately,? the panel said in its unanimous decision.

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I can't believe its finally ended. Is this the longest senate race in history? Nov 4 seems like a millenia ago.

Now w/ 59 votes the Dems will be able to bear great pressure on the Rs to hold ranks. A single vote is all that is needed. Bipartisanship may be almost dead, but where we'll see how it plays out from here. R's could be up for major ass-ramming esp if the economy begins recouping and Obama stays popular and gets credited w/ the turn around.

 

[SirStev0]

I still can't believe this went on this long. Hasn't Franken been the assumed winner the entire time with Coleman just trying to find accuse after accuse after accuse to get in?

Where were all the Bush Supporting Repubs of 2000 that were all about Gore standing aside?

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: SirStev0
I still can't believe this went on this long. Hasn't Franken been the assumed winner the entire time with Coleman just trying to find accuse after accuse after accuse to get in?

Where were all the Bush Supporting Repubs of 2000 that were all about Gore standing aside?

Sounds like that is what is going to go on for another few weeks as well. Some of the legal arguments have been pretty dumb. I think at this point its just stalling Dem votes in the Senate.

 

[Hacp]

My opinion is that the courts shouldn't decide this. Since it was so close, a pistol duel is in order. The winner takes the seat.

 

[jpeyton]

:thumbsup: Great news!

Not only does Franken win, but Coleman will piss away GOP money to appeal it.

 

[LumbergTech]

they should just revote to avoid the bs

 

[Thump553]

Coleman isn't done yet, by a long short. He still has state court appeals. Assuming he loses those, the MN governor SHOULD certify Franken and he should be admitted to the Senate. But the governor is a Republican with Presidential ambitions, so I fully expect him to refuse to certify Franken until Coleman exhausts all his potential federal appeal remedies, including to the US Supreme Court. The GOP strategy here is delay, delay, delay. Only a truly huge negative reaction-within the state of Minnesota-to their stalling has any chance of justice being served.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Thump553
Coleman isn't done yet, by a long short. He still has state court appeals. Assuming he loses those, the MN governor SHOULD certify Franken and he should be admitted to the Senate. But the governor is a Republican with Presidential ambitions, so I fully expect him to refuse to certify Franken until Coleman exhausts all his potential federal appeal remedies, including to the US Supreme Court. The GOP strategy here is delay, delay, delay. Only a truly huge negative reaction-within the state of Minnesota-to their stalling has any chance of justice being served.

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

 

[ProfJohn]

Pawlenty should follow the rule of law and nothing else.

The worse thing he can do is certify to early and risk the legal case Coleman may have. Better to error in caution.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Pawlenty should follow the rule of law and nothing else.

The worse thing he can do is certify to early and risk the legal case Coleman may have. Better to error in caution.

Trying to force Pawlenty to certify was a legal trick. Once certified and seated is there any precedent for removing a sitting certified senator? Even if the contest overturns his election? Then Franken sits back for the next 2 years in court fighting his own removal. Better to let the process sort itself out. This is what we MN's wanted so we get it.

 

[Lemon law]

Coleman can appeal to both the State Supreme Court and Federal Courts and need not exhaust his Minnesota State appeals before appealing to the federal Courts.

So we have a testable hypothesis, if Coleman wants to be semi principled and end this ASAP, Coleman will appeal to both State and Federal Courts at this point in time. If Coleman wants to run a full court stall, he will wait for the legal deadline to appeal to the MN supreme court, and then wait until they rule against him to start the Federal appeals.

And if I were the dems in MN, I would start to turn up the heat under the dead butts of Coleman and Pawlenty. They may be able to run a full court stall,
but when it deprives MN of one Senator for so long, there should be a price to pay.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

True, but the federal appeals are all optional (the federal courts have no obligation to even take the appeal, much less rule on it). I have no problem with him waiting out all the state appeals. Pawlenty has already danced around the point and it seems pretty clear that he will refuse to do anything until any and all possible avenues of overturning the results are exhausted. To me, his behavior is disgusting and party politics at their lowest.

I can see Coleman turning this into something similar to a capital sentence case, where the appeals last for years.

 

[waggy]

wow. what a sick situation.

 

[Phokus]

I'll laugh my ass off if o'reilly is forced to call him 'senator franken' :laugh:

 

[MovingTarget]

Yeah, they are just stalling at this point. They are trying to keep the dem majority to a minimum through whatever means necessary. They will draw this out until 2010 if necessary when the repubs can hope to make up some losses in '08. Pathetic. The margin was razor thin, but the process transparent. The writing is on the wall for Coleman.

 

[QuantumPion]

If Democrats are so desperate for power that they are willing to blatantly steal elections with no shame I say let them. If 49% of the voters are dumb enough to want Franken then we are pretty much ****** anyway.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

True, but the federal appeals are all optional (the federal courts have no obligation to even take the appeal, much less rule on it). I have no problem with him waiting out all the state appeals. Pawlenty has already danced around the point and it seems pretty clear that he will refuse to do anything until any and all possible avenues of overturning the results are exhausted. To me, his behavior is disgusting and party politics at their lowest.

I can see Coleman turning this into something similar to a capital sentence case, where the appeals last for years.

So you admit Pawlenty is bound by law to not certify yet claim he is playing disgusting party politics? What do you suggest he do, break the law to satisfy your lust for Franken?

Like I said, this is the ridiculous system Minnesotans decided on. We are getting what we asked.

 

[SP33Demon]

Coleman can appeal to my nuts and to the taxpayers of MN.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

True, but the federal appeals are all optional (the federal courts have no obligation to even take the appeal, much less rule on it). I have no problem with him waiting out all the state appeals. Pawlenty has already danced around the point and it seems pretty clear that he will refuse to do anything until any and all possible avenues of overturning the results are exhausted. To me, his behavior is disgusting and party politics at their lowest.

I can see Coleman turning this into something similar to a capital sentence case, where the appeals last for years.

So you admit Pawlenty is bound by law to not certify yet claim he is playing disgusting party politics? What do you suggest he do, break the law to satisfy your lust for Franken?

Like I said, this is the ridiculous system Minnesotans decided on. We are getting what we asked.

Kind of enjoying watching GOP self destruct in MN. Almost worth the wait.
Plus it enables GOP obstructionism in Senate, so they can self destruct there too 🙂

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

True, but the federal appeals are all optional (the federal courts have no obligation to even take the appeal, much less rule on it). I have no problem with him waiting out all the state appeals. Pawlenty has already danced around the point and it seems pretty clear that he will refuse to do anything until any and all possible avenues of overturning the results are exhausted. To me, his behavior is disgusting and party politics at their lowest.

I can see Coleman turning this into something similar to a capital sentence case, where the appeals last for years.

So you admit Pawlenty is bound by law to not certify yet claim he is playing disgusting party politics? What do you suggest he do, break the law to satisfy your lust for Franken?

Like I said, this is the ridiculous system Minnesotans decided on. We are getting what we asked.

Pretty feeble attempt to grossly distort what I have said.

-MN law (properly in my view) requires the governor to wait until the end of the state appeal process-if appeals are taken-before certifying the Senate election.

-NOTHING in the law requires the governor to hold off certification after the state appeal process is complete, which the loser pursues optional federal challenges to the election (technically these aren't appeals-they are collateral attacks),

-Coleman has made it abundantly clear he intends to pursue each and every possible appeal and collateral attack to this decision. Pawlenty has apparently endorsed this tactic, with his coy position that he won't certify the election until all the legal process (whatever that is) is complete. This is the playing party politics aspect that disgusts me.

Despite your claim I'm not a particularly big fan of Franken. I do note that in 2000 all the appeals for a contested Presidential election, including an appeal to and decision by the US Supreme Court, were completed within roughly a month of the election. Here we are already five months out and we haven't even gotten to the stage of filing for the state supreme court review, much less briefing, hearing and decision. The MN process as implemented here has been way, way too slow.


Coleman has been given more than a fair hearing to date. To continue to allow him to abuse the electoral process through collateral attacks after the state supreme court has decided is just wrong to anyone with any sense of justice. The state supreme court should fast track this matter to try to make up for the delays that have occured to date.

 

[Phokus]

It's clearly that coleman cares more about personal power than MN's right to have representation in Congress

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Thump553

Originally posted by: Genx87

Pawlenty is bound by state law to not certify until the process is complete.

True, but the federal appeals are all optional (the federal courts have no obligation to even take the appeal, much less rule on it). I have no problem with him waiting out all the state appeals. Pawlenty has already danced around the point and it seems pretty clear that he will refuse to do anything until any and all possible avenues of overturning the results are exhausted. To me, his behavior is disgusting and party politics at their lowest.

I can see Coleman turning this into something similar to a capital sentence case, where the appeals last for years.

So you admit Pawlenty is bound by law to not certify yet claim he is playing disgusting party politics? What do you suggest he do, break the law to satisfy your lust for Franken?

Like I said, this is the ridiculous system Minnesotans decided on. We are getting what we asked.

Pretty feeble attempt to grossly distort what I have said.

-MN law (properly in my view) requires the governor to wait until the end of the state appeal process-if appeals are taken-before certifying the Senate election.

Of which this isnt done either. Off the state supreme court.

-Coleman has made it abundantly clear he intends to pursue each and every possible appeal and collateral attack to this decision. Pawlenty has apparently endorsed this tactic, with his coy position that he won't certify the election until all the legal process (whatever that is) is complete. This is the playing party politics aspect that disgusts me.

You readily admit the process is still ongoing yet rail on Pawlenty for following the law. Weird.

Despite your claim I'm not a particularly big fan of Franken. I do note that in 2000 all the appeals for a contested Presidential election, including an appeal to and decision by the US Supreme Court, were completed within roughly a month of the election. Here we are already five months out and we haven't even gotten to the stage of filing for the state supreme court review, much less briefing, hearing and decision. The MN process as implemented here has been way, way too slow.

I'd have to recheck that debacle. But I believe there were some constitutional\law issues requiring certification by a date regardless of the court battle. Apples and oranges.

Coleman has been given more than a fair hearing to date. To continue to allow him to abuse the electoral process through collateral attacks after the state supreme court has decided is just wrong to anyone with any sense of justice. The state supreme court should fast track this matter to try to make up for the delays that have occured to date.

I really dont have an opinion on this than to say the process is the process. The federal courts are free to dimiss Colemans claim and they just may.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
If Republicans are so desperate for power that they are willing to blatantly steal elections with no shame I say let them. If 49% of the voters are dumb enough to want Coleman then we are pretty much ****** anyway.

You misspelled a few things there.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Pawlenty should follow the rule of law and nothing else.

The worse thing he can do is certify to early and risk the legal case Coleman may have. Better to error in caution.

Trying to force Pawlenty to certify was a legal trick. Once certified and seated is there any precedent for removing a sitting certified senator? Even if the contest overturns his election? Then Franken sits back for the next 2 years in court fighting his own removal. Better to let the process sort itself out. This is what we MN's wanted so we get it.

It's amusing to see the hypocrisy of the same people who led the 'sore loser' attacks on Gore and demanded he stop his efforts to take office, and that Bush be named winner.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
If Democrats are so desperate for power that they are willing to blatantly steal elections with no shame I say let them. If 49% of the voters are dumb enough to want Franken then we are pretty much ****** anyway.

I disagree. If that were the case, then fight the battle against Democrats. But it's not - and the only problem with 49% supporting the democrat there is that it's too low.

Of *course* people should want the democrat, who brings so much improvement to the policies of Norm Coleman.