Court Allows 'Under God' on Technicality

[Riprorin]

I'm sure you can buy them somewhere. None will be provided here. Read about the foundation of your country. It'll do you good.

It was founded by a bunch of religius radicals. Of course, they also thought there were witches and killed them even though the people were most likely sick from using toxic plates.

If we went by the founding fathers of the country then we'd still have slaves.[/quote]

It's a pity you weren't born in Russia under the Soviets or Cambodia under Pol Pot. Of course, you could always immigrate to North Korea or China. Those places weren't founded by believers in a higher power.

 

[digitalsm]

They didnt side step the issue. They did this to avoid setting precedent of allowing someone to bring a case when they do not have legal authority to do so.

If anyone read the transcripts, even the liberal judges felt that it wasnt unconstitutional.

Heres what Souter and Bryan said during the oral arguements.

Besides, noted Justice David Souter, even if the words "under God" represented religion "in actual practice, it's an affirmation in the mindset of a civic exercise."

Souter added the Pledge "is so tepid, so diluted, far from a compulsory prayer."

"God is so generic in this context as to be a neutral" expression of belief, continued Justice Stephen Breyer.

Go ahead try it. This is the 3RD TIME, the pledge has be held constitutional.

As for Newdows legal fees. The guy represented himself, he went to med school, became a Dr. Stopped being a Dr, went to law school. Then started sueing Drs for malpractice, as well as his many court cases vs the US.

I believe hes tried to sue over the money, Congress' daily pray, the Presidents Inaugration, and several other things. Each has been thrown out.

 

[Howard]

Why isn't this in P&N?

 

[dquan97]

:thumbsup:

 

[Krakerjak]

Court Allows 'Under God' on Technicality

:thumbsup:
What is next on the list? Your currency? Live with it.

...but i'm Canadian so I don't care what you extremists want to do to your pledge.

"God keep our land, glorious and free...."

 

[FoBoT]

did you read all the opinions?

Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist and Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia made it clear they think it is ok, despite the "technicality"

 

[gsaldivar]

What's up lately with all of these Politics & News threads in OT????

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

 

[PatboyX]

its good to see the most important issue we think to keep ourselves occupied with in the area of american politics is the presence of two words in a useless, crappy poem we force children to memorize and recite every day for about 10 years and then never again think to care about.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DWW
Being that the majority in the USA is Christian (and the founding fathers who built the country), why should a minority (atheist) win out?

Slowly over time the world is going to the crapper because the minorities always get the "right" above anyone else.

WTF? What the hell do you think freedom of speech is about? To protect the majority? With that type of thinking, I'm going to assume you are a Christian (or believe in that God at least). Am I right?

Lovely thought. Now answer this: Does freedom of speech apply only to the vocal minority? Does the silent majority have less right simply because they don't scream as loud? You do realize that if "under God" was removed from the Pledge a large group of people would feel their rights were being impinged upon. Can you grasp that concept?

Perhaps one day you'll grow up a bit and realize that there are more sides to an issue that the one you feel strongly about. Perhaps one day you'll be able to see things from the perspective of other people as well as you own while arguing a point. Perhaps that will allow you actually make an intelligent argument. It doesn't look very likely but I can always hope.

The simple fact is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Once you pass the age of 16 or so you'll realize this. There are two sides to this issue. You understand the fact that letting the silent right have their way is upsetting to the vocal minority. However, you seem completely unable to follow that train of thought conversely to it's logical conclusion. There is no clear cut right here. Someone's getting screwed either way. Get off you self-righteous soap box and grow up.

Oh, and let me kill the ignorant argument that people such as yourself usually come up with before you can furiously pound it out; I'm not a Christian or religious in any way.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DWW
Being that the majority in the USA is Christian (and the founding fathers who built the country), why should a minority (atheist) win out?

Slowly over time the world is going to the crapper because the minorities always get the "right" above anyone else.

WTF? What the hell do you think freedom of speech is about? To protect the majority? With that type of thinking, I'm going to assume you are a Christian (or believe in that God at least). Am I right?

Lovely thought. Now answer this: Does freedom of speech apply only to the vocal minority? Does the silent majority have less right simply because they don't scream as loud? You do realize that if "under God" was removed from the Pledge a large group of people would feel their rights were being impinged upon. Can you grasp that concept?

Perhaps one day you'll grow up a bit and realize that there are more sides to an issue that the one you feel strongly about. Perhaps one day you'll be able to see things from the perspective of other people as well as you own while arguing a point. Perhaps that will allow you actually make an intelligent argument. It doesn't look very likely but I can always hope.

The simple fact is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Once you pass the age of 16 or so you'll realize this. There are two sides to this issue. You understand the fact that letting the silent right have their way is upsetting to the vocal minority. However, you seem completely unable to follow that train of thought conversely to it's logical conclusion. There is no clear cut right here. Someone's getting screwed either way. Get off you self-righteous soap box and grow up.

Oh, and let me kill the ignorant argument that people such as yourself usually come up with before you can furiously pound it out; I'm not a Christian or religious in any way.

What you?ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DWW
Being that the majority in the USA is Christian (and the founding fathers who built the country), why should a minority (atheist) win out?

Slowly over time the world is going to the crapper because the minorities always get the "right" above anyone else.

WTF? What the hell do you think freedom of speech is about? To protect the majority? With that type of thinking, I'm going to assume you are a Christian (or believe in that God at least). Am I right?

Lovely thought. Now answer this: Does freedom of speech apply only to the vocal minority? Does the silent majority have less right simply because they don't scream as loud? You do realize that if "under God" was removed from the Pledge a large group of people would feel their rights were being impinged upon. Can you grasp that concept?

Perhaps one day you'll grow up a bit and realize that there are more sides to an issue that the one you feel strongly about. Perhaps one day you'll be able to see things from the perspective of other people as well as you own while arguing a point. Perhaps that will allow you actually make an intelligent argument. It doesn't look very likely but I can always hope.

The simple fact is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Once you pass the age of 16 or so you'll realize this. There are two sides to this issue. You understand the fact that letting the silent right have their way is upsetting to the vocal minority. However, you seem completely unable to follow that train of thought conversely to it's logical conclusion. There is no clear cut right here. Someone's getting screwed either way. Get off you self-righteous soap box and grow up.

Oh, and let me kill the ignorant argument that people such as yourself usually come up with before you can furiously pound it out; I'm not a Christian or religious in any way.

What you?ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

If you couldn't come up with any intelligent response all you had to do is say so. No need to go to the movie quotes. I'm sorry, though. I didn't mean to interrupt your trolling with common sense. Proceed.

 

[Cashmoney995]

Honestly...

I'm Hindu, But I don't really have a problem with the under god. I think that the kids who want to should say under god, and the kids who don't should say under science. I mean...there ya go, problem solved.

 

[Schadenfroh]

i expected them to keep it, never thought they would keep in this way. nice move on their part

 

[Red Dawn]

Hey you got to throw the Fund A Mental Cases a bone now or then or they start up with that God Damned Martyr BS that's so God Damned annoying.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DWW
Being that the majority in the USA is Christian (and the founding fathers who built the country), why should a minority (atheist) win out?

Slowly over time the world is going to the crapper because the minorities always get the "right" above anyone else.

WTF? What the hell do you think freedom of speech is about? To protect the majority? With that type of thinking, I'm going to assume you are a Christian (or believe in that God at least). Am I right?

Lovely thought. Now answer this: Does freedom of speech apply only to the vocal minority? Does the silent majority have less right simply because they don't scream as loud? You do realize that if "under God" was removed from the Pledge a large group of people would feel their rights were being impinged upon. Can you grasp that concept?

Perhaps one day you'll grow up a bit and realize that there are more sides to an issue that the one you feel strongly about. Perhaps one day you'll be able to see things from the perspective of other people as well as you own while arguing a point. Perhaps that will allow you actually make an intelligent argument. It doesn't look very likely but I can always hope.

The simple fact is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Once you pass the age of 16 or so you'll realize this. There are two sides to this issue. You understand the fact that letting the silent right have their way is upsetting to the vocal minority. However, you seem completely unable to follow that train of thought conversely to it's logical conclusion. There is no clear cut right here. Someone's getting screwed either way. Get off you self-righteous soap box and grow up.

Oh, and let me kill the ignorant argument that people such as yourself usually come up with before you can furiously pound it out; I'm not a Christian or religious in any way.

What you?ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

If you couldn't come up with any intelligent response all you had to do is say so. No need to go to the movie quotes. I'm sorry, though. I didn't mean to interrupt your trolling with common sense. Proceed.

Seriously, let me inject some sense into your obviously poorly thought out response. Freedom of speech applies to everyone. However, the minority's voice needs the greatest protection, otherwise it gets trampled on by the majority. I have no problem with someone on the corner spouting "God saves" until they are blue in the face. But I'll be damned if I have to fund it. And that is exactly what is happening in the public schools. There is a separation of church and state, and should be kept SEPARATE. I'm for neutrality. Even though I regard the fairy believers as extremely weak minded people, they have the same right to voice their opinions as I do. But my tax dollars should not be spent on superstitious mumbo-jumbo. If you want your child to pray all the live long day, there is something called private schools. I have no problem with that.

And let me add, taking out "Under God," does NOT infringe on the rights' of the people supporting it. Why? Because they had NO right to inject it in the first place! That's like you stealing from me and when I go to take it back, you refuse to do so because you say it is yours. Are you saying I'm infringing on the person's rights because I'm trying to take it back?

Now please, take a step back, understand how stupid your statements were, and never post again. You're a special little man. Now get on that short bus and go play with your friends at school.

 

[jcwagers]

Well, since nobody else is going to stick up for this, I will. I am INDEED a Christian. I don't intend to push anything on anybody but I'm glad that they didn't remove it. There has been a lot of talk about the founding fathers and what they thought. I know they had some strange beliefs and odd ways of viewing things but I know one thing for sure. If we were still under the principles that they lived by, we would have a LOT less problems in today's society than we do. And as far as majorities and minorities, it seems to me that the majority pays the price while the minorities whine and get their way. Is that because the majorities don't stand up and voice their opinion? ABSOLUTELY. Everybody is afraid to "offend" somebody so they just go along with whatever is brought up. That is a HUGE reason why our society is the way that it is. You can't discipline your child...and many of the ones who do are deemed to be "abusing" their child. The Ten Commandments is something that can't be displayed. Prayer is looked as being "offensive" regardless of whether people think it is or not. If you go to other countries, they will pray or do what they normally do. They don't give a crap if you like it or not. They don't go by what a few people like or don't like. We are INDEED the land of the free but it seems to me that the freedoms of Americans are being removed almost daily due to the fear of offending immigrants. I have no problem with people immigrating. I don't think that they should be in control of helping to remove many of the principles that our country was founded on. As people in other countries CERTAINLY wouldn't allow that to happen in their counties. So, am I ready to be flamed for feeling this way? ABSOLUTELY! You wanna take a shot, go ahead! I will freely express my opinion....and state that I DEFINITELY believe that God should have a major role in our country. It's just a shame that he can't play the role he deserves to play.

jc

 

[Drizzy]

Originally posted by: jcwagers
Well, since nobody else is going to stick up for this, I will. I am INDEED a Christian. I don't intend to push anything on anybody but I'm glad that they didn't remove it. There has been a lot of talk about the founding fathers and what they thought. I know they had some strange beliefs and odd ways of viewing things but I know one thing for sure. If we were still under the principles that they lived by, we would have a LOT less problems in today's society than we do. And as far as majorities and minorities, it seems to me that the majority pays the price while the minorities whine and get their way. Is that because the majorities don't stand up and voice their opinion? ABSOLUTELY. Everybody is afraid to "offend" somebody so they just go along with whatever is brought up. That is a HUGE reason why our society is the way that it is. You can't discipline your child...and many of the ones who do are deemed to be "abusing" their child. The Ten Commandments is something that can't be displayed. Prayer is looked as being "offensive" regardless of whether people think it is or not. If you go to other countries, they will pray or do what they normally do. They don't give a crap if you like it or not. They don't go by what a few people like or don't like. We are INDEED the land of the free but it seems to me that the freedoms of Americans are being removed almost daily due to the fear of offending immigrants. I have no problem with people immigrating. I don't think that they should be in control of helping to remove many of the principles that our country was founded on. As people in other countries CERTAINLY wouldn't allow that to happen in their counties. So, am I ready to be flamed for feeling this way? ABSOLUTELY! You wanna take a shot, go ahead! I will freely express my opinion....and state that I DEFINITELY believe that God should have a major role in our country. It's just a shame that he can't play the role he deserves to play.

jc

Agree. God is order and progress.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: DWW
Being that the majority in the USA is Christian (and the founding fathers who built the country), why should a minority (atheist) win out?

Slowly over time the world is going to the crapper because the minorities always get the "right" above anyone else.

WTF? What the hell do you think freedom of speech is about? To protect the majority? With that type of thinking, I'm going to assume you are a Christian (or believe in that God at least). Am I right?

Lovely thought. Now answer this: Does freedom of speech apply only to the vocal minority? Does the silent majority have less right simply because they don't scream as loud? You do realize that if "under God" was removed from the Pledge a large group of people would feel their rights were being impinged upon. Can you grasp that concept?

Perhaps one day you'll grow up a bit and realize that there are more sides to an issue that the one you feel strongly about. Perhaps one day you'll be able to see things from the perspective of other people as well as you own while arguing a point. Perhaps that will allow you actually make an intelligent argument. It doesn't look very likely but I can always hope.

The simple fact is that you can't make everyone happy all the time. Once you pass the age of 16 or so you'll realize this. There are two sides to this issue. You understand the fact that letting the silent right have their way is upsetting to the vocal minority. However, you seem completely unable to follow that train of thought conversely to it's logical conclusion. There is no clear cut right here. Someone's getting screwed either way. Get off you self-righteous soap box and grow up.

Oh, and let me kill the ignorant argument that people such as yourself usually come up with before you can furiously pound it out; I'm not a Christian or religious in any way.

What you?ve just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

If you couldn't come up with any intelligent response all you had to do is say so. No need to go to the movie quotes. I'm sorry, though. I didn't mean to interrupt your trolling with common sense. Proceed.

Seriously, let me inject some sense into your obviously poorly thought out response. Freedom of speech applies to everyone. However, the minority's voice needs the greatest protection, otherwise it gets trampled on by the majority. I have no problem with someone on the corner spouting "God saves" until they are blue in the face. But I'll be damned if I have to fund it. And that is exactly what is happening in the public schools. There is a separation of church and state, and should be kept SEPARATE. I'm for neutrality. Even though I regard the fairy believers as extremely weak minded people, they have the same right to voice their opinions as I do. But my tax dollars should not be spent on superstitious mumbo-jumbo. If you want your child to pray all the live long day, there is something called private schools. I have no problem with that.

And let me add, taking out "Under God," does NOT infringe on the rights' of the people supporting it. Why? Because they had NO right to inject it in the first place! That's like you stealing from me and when I go to take it back, you refuse to do so because you say it is yours. Are you saying I'm infringing on the person's rights because I'm trying to take it back?

Now please, take a step back, understand how stupid your statements were, and never post again. You're a special little man. Now get on that short bus and go play with your friends at school.

First, please explain to me how you're funding the phrase "under God". This should be truly interesting.

As to the government having " NO right to inject it in the first place"; you're wrong again. The words "under God" were added to the Pledge in 1954. The Supreme Court ruling that was the basis for the current definition of the "separation of Church and State" was handed down in 1971. Therefore, at the time the phrase was added to the Pledge it was completely within the government's right to do so as the new definition for what was and was not acceptable with regards to government and religion had yet to come into the picture. Sorry to burst your bubble. Thanks for playing, though.

Just a thought, but you really should know what you're talking about before you criticize the points of someone else.

 

[tm37]

I am going to ask where in the constitution it says That church must be seperate from the government.

 

[wkabel23]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
The question is whether the word God - taken by itself - actually establishes a religion.

God is such a general word that its presence could only really offend atheists.

Why not Allah? Too specific? Or do you not believe in Allah?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the founding fathers, quite frankly I think most of them would be rolling in their graves right now. The phrase was put in during the McCarthy Era, not exactly the gloriest era in America's history.

What is the problem with removing it? A lot of you have said "it doesn't matter...it's a small detail...blah...blah" so then why not remove it? You want it in because you know it refers to the Christian god. If Christians used Allah instead of God you can bet they would want "Under God" removed from the pledge.

Let's return to the original pledge. We could experiment with it for a few years. If a huge Communist movement starts in those few years we can put God back in the pledge.

 

[upsciLLion]

Originally posted by: Cashmoney995
Honestly...

I'm Hindu, But I don't really have a problem with the under god. I think that the kids who want to should say under god, and the kids who don't should say under science. I mean...there ya go, problem solved.

Stop that. Your tolerant thinking is going to ruin the thread! :roll:

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: tm37
I am going to ask where in the constitution it says That church must be seperate from the government.

The phrase "separation of Church and State is nowhere to be found in the Constitution.

The First Amendment states that:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

This is also known as The Establishment Clause. The Supreme Court ruling that interpreted this and is the basis for the current "separation of Church and State" which people spew so often came in 1971.

If you search for "The Establishment Clause" on google you should turn up some good reading discussing it in more depth. You probably won't have much luck finding a neutral breakdown of it on either side, though. Pay good attention to what you read and be careful not to step in the bullsh!t.

 

[Hans5849]

FINE i'll sue for the 10 years of my life i had to say it. You know we didn't have to say it untill there was this big issue about it then in IL they made us say the pledge

 

[hdeck]

wow go whine more. no one is forcing you to say the pledge.

 

[Chaotic42]

Alas this is America and you're free to say whatever you want. Since a large majority of Americans have no problem saying "Under God", most people will continue doing it. No one that I've known has ever been in trouble for saying the pledge in a way other than that which is commonly used.

This whole case started off as a joke, ran as a joke, and finished as one joke ontop of another.