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County Officials Attempt to Stop Home Bible Study

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Originally posted by: shiner
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: shiner
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: shiner
So what about a kid's birthday party?
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Does your kid have a birthday party every week?
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The frequency is irrelevant Kenneth.
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its very relevant
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Only if you feel like limiting people's rights based on the frequency they do something.
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I live next to a family that seems to have a birthday party for one of their rug rats every week. Yeah, frequency is relevant.
 
Looks like they are targeting religion.
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Or they were seeing if it was a recurring, formal assembly rather than a one-time informal gathering.

Noise, parking, zoning are all valid reasons for the county to prevent a recurring assembly at a specific location without a permit.

As usual with local news, the reporter picks a slant and runs with it, tossing out words like "interrogation" by the county then a "threatening" letter saying they (gasp!) need a permit.
 
Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

I live next to a family that seems to have a birthday party for one of their rug rats every week. Yeah, frequency is relevant.
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How are they violating your rights by doing this? If it is noise pollution, get them a municipal code citing.

If they really arent doing anything illegal, then mind your own business.
 
Originally posted by: TechBoyJK
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
This is lame as .. well, Hell.

"" This is not really a religious assembly ? this is just a bible study with (on average) 15 friends. "" - Pastor David Jones

Why don't they rotate the Bible study between homes?

The guy is running a mini-church and clearly the neighbors complained about it or the code enforcement officer would not have been out there in the first place.
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What does it have to do with what the guy is "running"

that's like calling a family bbq a "mini restaraunt" or "mini bar and grill" because he has his grill fired up and some beer in teh fridge.

There's no way they can be stopped for what they are doing.
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It has everything to do with it.

And your "mini restaraunt" strawman does not hold.

Clearly the neighbor(s) became agitated enough by a weekly (on average) 15 person 'Bible Study' to complain about it and the right-wing wackos proceed to pitch a hissy fit about some poor slub code enforcement officer trying to do his job.

If it's a Bible study among friends why aren't they rotating it between homes?

As typical - one side of the story comes out and the Cons get their panties in a wadd. As Fern pointed out nobody's has talked about the parking. 10 cars will take up over 120 feet of bothsides of the street and if it's narrow this is a problem.

What about 20 cars? 30 cars?

They got a lawyer that wants to make a Federal case out of it. Good luck with that. Will they take up a collection at the Bible study to pay for it?
 
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

It has everything to do with it.

And your "mini restaraunt" strawman does not hold.

Clearly the neighbor(s) became agitated enough by a weekly (on average) 15 person 'Bible Study' to complain about it and the right-wing wackos proceed to pitch a hissy fit about some poor slub code enforcement officer trying to do his job.

If it's a Bible study among friends why aren't they rotating it between homes?

As typical - one side of the story comes out and the Cons get their panties in a wadd. As Fern pointed out nobody's has talked about the parking. 10 cars will take up over 120 feet of bothsides of the street and if it's narrow this is a problem.

What about 20 cars? 30 cars?

They got a lawyer that wants to make a Federal case out of it. Good luck with that. Will they take up a collection at the Bible study to pay for it?
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Sorry, this is an easy loss for the county here. I hope they have some money saved up.
 
It's an absurd situation and it is completely unConstitutional. If they were violating local noise ordinances or parking ordinances, or even the fire code by having more people in a building than was safe, I could see it. But simply trying extortion tactics to get them to buy a permit which would magically make everything that was just illegal suddenly OK? Is this the modern version of indulgences? Bullshit.
 
It's the church lawyer who said it was about money, and he might be slightly biased.

Maybe the county folk are foaming at the mouth atheists trying to do Satan's work for him, or maybe the county just wants the pastor to fill out some paperwork and agree to some terms about hours, noise, parking and to agree to a maximum number of people.
 
Previous article?

http://www.10news.com/news/19585458/detail.html

BONITA, Calif. -- A local pastor said the County has cited him for hosting a weekly Bible study in his home. The County said visitors who drive to those meetings are affecting traffic in the neighborhood.

Pastor David Jones has been hosting weekly Bible studies at his Bonita home during the past five years. About 15 people attend the meetings, he told 10News.

Jones said a visitor to a neighbor's house called the County after a Bible study member hit the visitor?s car while leaving. Shortly after, a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation that said he needed a permit to host the weekly Bible study meetings, he said.

Jones and his attorneys sid he shouldn't have to get a permit for what he does inside his house. "We think it is clearly permissible. We think this is a violation of our constitutional rights," Jones told 10News.

A County spokeswoman says the County is concerned with parking and its impact on the neighborhood.

The two sides met Wednesday but resolved nothing.

Jones said they're scheduled to meet again on June 9.
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Originally posted by: her209
Previous article?

http://www.10news.com/news/19585458/detail.html

BONITA, Calif. -- A local pastor said the County has cited him for hosting a weekly Bible study in his home. The County said visitors who drive to those meetings are affecting traffic in the neighborhood.

Pastor David Jones has been hosting weekly Bible studies at his Bonita home during the past five years. About 15 people attend the meetings, he told 10News.

Jones said a visitor to a neighbor's house called the County after a Bible study member hit the visitor?s car while leaving. Shortly after, a county code enforcement officer gave him a citation that said he needed a permit to host the weekly Bible study meetings, he said.

Jones and his attorneys sid he shouldn't have to get a permit for what he does inside his house. "We think it is clearly permissible. We think this is a violation of our constitutional rights," Jones told 10News.

A County spokeswoman says the County is concerned with parking and its impact on the neighborhood.

The two sides met Wednesday but resolved nothing.

Jones said they're scheduled to meet again on June 9.
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Thank you.

 
It's an absurd situation and it is completely unConstitutional. If they were violating local noise ordinances or parking ordinances, or even the fire code by having more people in a building than was safe, I could see it. But simply trying extortion tactics to get them to buy a permit which would magically make everything that was just illegal suddenly OK? Is this the modern version of indulgences? Bullshit.
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My thoughts exactly - when you force it down other people's throats in schools, public places, etc, well that's obviously (well, maybe not to some fundies) crossing the line.

Organizing a home event like this though? Knock yourself out padre! Can the traffic from 15 visitors really be that bad?

Way to help the christian victim mentality gain a little validity San Diego... :roll:


Edit: Crap, nevermind... vehicle damage did occur due to the meets, sooooo....
 
Based on this news video and using yellowpages.com, I narrowed down the house address to this cul-de-sac:

3264 Holly Way
Chula Vista, CA 91910

You can tell its the right house because you see the same power pole and palm tree that is in the background behind the house using Google StreetView and Microsoft Live Earth. Anyways, the road looks pretty small to accommodate that much of traffic. The house drive does not look like it would be able to accommodate very many cars without visitors having to park in the cul-de-sac.
 
Originally posted by: kage69


Edit: Crap, nevermind... vehicle damage did occur due to the meets, sooooo....
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Vehicle damage occured when me and my friends would play baseball one time out in the cul-de-sac.

If it really is such a nusiance, how would paying the city a bunch of money for a permit help the poor people who had their car damaged?

That and the religious questions do not add up.
 
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
The county employee notified the couple that the small bible study, with an average of 15 people attending, was in violation of county regulations, according to Broyles.

Broyles said a few days later the couple received a written warning that listed "unlawful use of land" and told them to "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit"
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Is 15 people a normal size for a friendly poker game?

If I lived next door to a house that had 15 people hootin' and hollerin' about the Lord for a couple of hours every week I might get annoyed, the same if it was a weekly house party or football watching crowd of that size.

A few friends over is different from 15 people every week.

Edit: Why not have the bible study at their church like normal churchfolk do?
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i'm pretty sure the people down the street have more people over than that every weekend of football season. and they're cowboys fans :|
 
Originally posted by: DrPizza
wtf? 15 people is not that many people at all. And, I've been to houses where there were 20 or more people for poker games. They'd set up multiple tables for a tournament. Once each table was down to 3 players, they'd merge those tables.

A 15 person limit is absolutely retarded. And, if your neighbors have 15 people over, and they're not loud, not causing a disturbance, then mind your own fucking business. If they ARE loud, causing a disturbance, or other problems, then deal with those problems using the appropriate laws.


Citrix, I'd love for you to explain how it's a nuisance.
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His eyes are offended when he looks outside his house and sees the cars. :roll: Not that anyone in the suburbs ever looks out their front windows.

I really can't stand busybodies who get their panties all in a wad over such insignificant things. Oh no, cars are parked on the street! My property value is plummeting. :roll:
 
People want religion out of government (and I agree) but unless there is an overwhelming reason (and parking isn't one), government needs to stay out of religion.
 
if there really was this absolute void of religion like so many want to believe, I wonder why so much religion is present in government documents and activities originating with those whom wrote the separation statement.
 
Originally posted by: Fayd
Originally posted by: her209
How man cars will fit?

Cul-de-sac
180° view
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enough to bring in far more than 15 people.

hell, that could bring in 15 people in separate cars!
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You could fit enough cars to hold 15 people in the guy's driveway. The video said they park in the driveway, and there is some spillover into the street. We don't know how much, but he seemed to have a good sized driveway. If the 15 people includes children, then there's probably more than 2 people per car.
 
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