Could the next Xbox use an AMD APU?

[Red Hawk]

The PPC cores in the 360 and PS3 currently don't do out-of-order processing, just in-order. Out-of-order could be a benefit of going x86. And having AMD design the entire APU could cut costs as they'd be paying only one company instead of two. Anyways though, I only suggested it for the next Xbox, not the PS4.

Regardless of APU design I expect the next Xbox to use a Radeon HD 5000 generation chip or newer (for DirectX 11)

 

[RussianSensation]

No rumors or anything, just an idea for discussion.

The performance of Llano is clear and, despite slow performance on the CPU side due to outdated architecture, the graphics performance is extraordinary when compared to traditional integrated graphics or even Sandy Bridge's HD Graphics 3000. If equipped with a newer, better CPU architecture, do any of you think an AMD APU would be a good choice for the next Xbox?

My answer: No.

Wii U is already going to have an RV770 derivative GPU. Nintendo is a company which focuses on costs more than anyone and they still decided not to go with Llano because Llano is nowhere near as fast as needed for a next generation console. It's even more doubtful that Microsoft will want to launch a console with a GPU less powerful than what's found in the Wii U. Even with the next generation Trinity design (800 SPs), that's still only as fast as an HD4850/4870 (at best).

My guess is the next Xbox will instead use a SoC design - ie., CPU + GPU on 1 package, but 2 separate die. It's unlikely to be an APU (i.e., CPU and GPU integrated on 1 die) given the TDP constraints, serious compromise in CPU performance and the immense compromise in GPU power that such a design entails. I would only go with an APU design if it included at least an 800 SP GPU and a 6-8 core BD CPU. But given the problems AMD has had with BD on its own, I doubt Trinity will have an 800 SP GPU + a 6-8 core BD onboard (probably a 4-core BD cut-down + GPU). As such, you'd have to downgrade your CPU from 6-8 core to 4-core to make it feasible within the next 12-15 months.

So I'll admit, if I was designing the next Xbox, I would not want APU design since such a product will have difficulty with playing games at 1080P @ 60 fps in the next 5 years. I'd rather choose a much more powerful GPU to start, and then 3-4 years into the cycle of the console, re-package it into 1 die once we are at 7-11nm, etc.

Of course the answer largely depends on when the console is expected to launch. If it's 2013, I am going to say SoC, if it's 2014-2015 when APU evolves further, I could start to see it as a more feasible solution.

One thing to keep in mind: If Xbox720 does choose an APU design, and PS4 has a dedicated GPU, then it's all over for the 720. I mean you slap a basic HD6870 with a dedicated 256-memory interface on 28nm into the PS4, and it's kiss-kiss-bye-bye for the 720 with ANY APU style design.

 

[RussianSensation]

look at the bill of materials on the playstation 3. then look at the bill of materials of the xbox 360 at the time.

Come on bro, did you even bother checking the BOM for PS3 before you made the comment that NV "screwed" Sony?

PS3 BOM at launch date: RSX GPU = $70 out of $900 (7.8% of total system cost)

vs. Xbox360 BOM:

$141 for R500 out of $525 total cost (26.9%)

i would be willing to wager that nvidia charged sony *more* for each gpu compared to the deal microsoft got through ati, all the while releasing the console later and with inferior gpu technology.

Is this another one of your Pro-AMD chants for today?

In the report above, Merrill Lynch estimated the price of NV RSX in 3 years to be $50.....and

3 years later: $45.52

In other words, going with NV was one of the smartest choices:

1) It was 2x cheaper than R500 but it didn't give up that much performance
2) Its price fell to ~ $45 3 years later as predicted (i.e., no surprises then)
3) It didn't RROD every 2nd console. :thumbsup:
4) It didn't result in a console that sounded like an airplane is taking off the runway

In other words, going with ATI for Microsoft was the inferior move in hindsight.

 

[Red Hawk]

After their bad experience with Nvidia? If anything Microsoft moving to AMD motivated Nvidia to give Sony a better deal.