Could/should we outlaw protesters hiding their identify via masks and hoods?

[Steeplerot]

If it walks like a duck, and sieg heils like a...

 

[tommywishbone]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Topic Title: Could/should we outlaw protesters hiding their identify via masks and hoods?
Topic Summary: In order to prevent vandalism and mayhem?

Would be easier if you worded your title and question correctly:

Should we rip up Constitution, declare and rename U.S. Fourth Reicht immediately in order to prevent vandalism and mayhem?

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Trivial freedoms/rights are overrated. How many masked protestors are even there to protest rather than just to generate general havoc.

What?

Eh, what i said. Who truly needs to mask themselves if their planning on peacefully protesting. Its trivial because so few people actually need to mask themselves. Therefore Im willing to sacrife that right for for example safety.

 

[nutxo]

Hell no it shouldn't be against the law. I do think they should shoot the people that loot during these protests though.

Here in Seattle the WTO protestors were more about vandalism and stealing than protesting.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Trivial freedoms/rights are overrated. How many masked protestors are even there to protest rather than just to generate general havoc.

What?

Eh, what i said. Who truly needs to mask themselves if their planning on peacefully protesting. Its trivial because so few people actually need to mask themselves. Therefore Im willing to sacrife that right for for example safety.

Surprise surprise, someone who doesn't get it. Sacrifice freedom and you'll have neither freedom nor safety.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: JD50
It should be mandatory for you to have a picture of your face on a drivers license. If you don't want your picture taken, then don't drive.

I agree with that 100%.


On the topic of hoods, I think we need to take a closer look at laws already on the books which were originally put in place to target the KKK. If a law is written in such a way that it only restricts racist speech by people in hoods, then it's wrong and needs to be overturned.

If a group of protestors come out in full bio-suits and gas masks, I expect the police (and perhaps the national guard) will be there very quickly en masse to ensure nothing fishy is even close to happening.

On the topic in general, I don't think I can support further restricting what you wear at a protest, so long as:
1) You are wearing something that doesn't expose private parts.
2) You aren't wearing something that incites violence/revolution/treason.
[Both of these restrictions are already in place.]

edit: I scoured my brain to think of a situation where I'd be protesting (very unlikely in itself, protests are mostly pointless IMO), and where I'd be too chickens**t to be a man and show my face (again not likely, as I've done public speaking). The only thing I could come up with is if I lived in San Francisco, I might protest homosexuality in all its immorality and destructiveness, and I might wear a hood so that I didn't get sodomized later that night by the angry gay mob.

 

[Steeplerot]

Like anyone would want your bigoted ass keith.

 

[Steeplerot]

Also, the term "hood" or "mask" is misleading, the only masks I see unless for entertainment value (people wearing a bush mask for example) are gas masks, take a look at these folks they wear bandannas on their face to stop gas fumes/protect their privacy around countless cameras, not a "hood" this is another attempt to frame the debate comparing people using their civil rights with the KKK or other scum.

Typical of spinmeisters like puffer john.

Wearing a ski mask would be plain stupid as the knit type material is far too full of holes to be of any useful protection.
(although some idiots do it -until they wind up choking on teargas)

 

[Rainsford]

Maybe this is news to some people here, but I'd venture to say that a founding principle of this country is that you're innocent until proven guilty. That being the case, ANY law that restricts what you do just in case you might possibly be committing a crime later is fundamentally against what this country stands for. It's assuming that everyone is guilty, and treating them as such. Period, end of story, thanks for playing, comrade.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Maybe this is news to some people here, but I'd venture to say that a founding principle of this country is that you're innocent until proven guilty. That being the case, ANY law that restricts what you do just in case you might possibly be committing a crime later is fundamentally against what this country stands for. It's assuming that everyone is guilty, and treating them as such. Period, end of story, thanks for playing, comrade.

So then explain to me the multiple states that already have these laws in place and the court rullings upholding those laws?

 

[Mardeth]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Mardeth

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Mardeth
Trivial freedoms/rights are overrated. How many masked protestors are even there to protest rather than just to generate general havoc.

What?

Eh, what i said. Who truly needs to mask themselves if their planning on peacefully protesting. Its trivial because so few people actually need to mask themselves. Therefore Im willing to sacrife that right for for example safety.

Surprise surprise, someone who doesn't get it. Sacrifice freedom and you'll have neither freedom nor safety.

Let me guess, some "great thinker" said that? Sounds cool but I think its naive. If it was true then the safest would be if we had no laws at all, right? My suggestion would be that masking in protests would be illegal but not enforced unless things get ugly.

 

[fskimospy]

The actual quote is a Ben Franklin one that gets misused all the time.

The quote goes: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

So... he wasn't endorsing anarchy or anything like that.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Maybe this is news to some people here, but I'd venture to say that a founding principle of this country is that you're innocent until proven guilty. That being the case, ANY law that restricts what you do just in case you might possibly be committing a crime later is fundamentally against what this country stands for. It's assuming that everyone is guilty, and treating them as such. Period, end of story, thanks for playing, comrade.

So then explain to me the multiple states that already have these laws in place and the court rullings upholding those laws?

How much you wanna bet those laws were enacted first in the 1800s and remain on the books today? Further, how many of those laws have been challenged at the federal level, by the SCotUS? Again, I'd bet not a one.

If a person, masked or not, commits a crime, then arrest them. Simple enough and no muzzling of our rights.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Notably, the law cited by PJ only restricts the right to wear a mask on government property, which the Supreme Court has ruled is a limited public forum for free speech. I don't see how a similar ban on mask-wearing in ANY public place could be constitutional.

As for the OP, it is typically ridiculous nonsense IMO. It's interesting how this place has increasingly been taken over by right-wing extremists - it's surprising how many of the threads on the main page were started by PJ, Shivetya, Jediyoda, Specop007, etc. To the extent threads like this one are typical of the quality of threads these guys are starting, it reflects a negative trend in the caliber of discussion here IMO.

 

[her209]

I think we shouldn't allow people to wear clothes in public because it would be harder to see when someone is carrying weapons.

 

[JEDIYoda]

so let one or a few of these hooded people throw a brick through your cars front window and all you wgo approce of not squashing there right to wear hoods and such will be the first in line crying that there ought to be a law against wearing hoods and protesting!!

Don`t deny it we know its true...its easy to say do step on there rights when it does not affect you firectly...rofl..

 

[tommywishbone]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
so let one or a few of these hooded people throw a brick through your cars front window and all you wgo approce of not squashing there right to wear hoods and such will be the first in line crying that there ought to be a law against wearing hoods and protesting!!

Don`t deny it we know its true...its easy to say do step on there rights when it does not affect you firectly...rofl..

It must be a terrible thing to live in fear.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
so let one or a few of these hooded people throw a brick through your cars front window and all you wgo approce of not squashing there right to wear hoods and such will be the first in line crying that there ought to be a law against wearing hoods and protesting!!

Don`t deny it we know its true...its easy to say do step on there rights when it does not affect you firectly...rofl..

My guess is that you don't take the same attitude toward guns, which clearly create a greater and more immediate risk to personal safety than masks do. Am I wrong?

FWIW I support the right to bear arms, AND masks (though it's probably best not to combine the two).

 

[IGBT]

..this is a practice borrowed from the KKK. They did the same thing. So I guess the Klan has returned under the guise of neolib's.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DonVito
As for the OP, it is typically ridiculous nonsense IMO.

It's interesting how this place has increasingly been taken over by right-wing extremists - it's surprising how many of the threads on the main page were started by PJ, Shivetya, Jediyoda, Specop007, etc.

To the extent threads like this one are typical of the quality of threads these guys are starting, it reflects a negative trend in the caliber of discussion here IMO.

It shows how much more the GOP machine is stepping up paying online shills.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: ayabe
No, this is America.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
so let one or a few of these hooded people throw a brick through your cars front window and all you wgo approce of not squashing there right to wear hoods and such will be the first in line crying that there ought to be a law against wearing hoods and protesting!!

Don`t deny it we know its true...its easy to say do step on there rights when it does not affect you firectly...rofl..

No, I'm not so big of a moron that I'd blame the hoods instead of the individual who committed the crime. Keep in mind that not all of us are as mentally disabled as you are.

 

[AAjax]

why should police be the only ones allowed to wear masks ans hoods?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Maybe this is news to some people here, but I'd venture to say that a founding principle of this country is that you're innocent until proven guilty. That being the case, ANY law that restricts what you do just in case you might possibly be committing a crime later is fundamentally against what this country stands for. It's assuming that everyone is guilty, and treating them as such. Period, end of story, thanks for playing, comrade.

So then explain to me the multiple states that already have these laws in place and the court rullings upholding those laws?

Because that's not what many of those laws are saying. Besides, I'm not a lawyer, I'm talking about right and wrong...not the law. And it shouldn't come as a shock to you that those things don't always intersect.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
so let one or a few of these hooded people throw a brick through your cars front window and all you wgo approce of not squashing there right to wear hoods and such will be the first in line crying that there ought to be a law against wearing hoods and protesting!!

Don`t deny it we know its true...its easy to say do step on there rights when it does not affect you firectly...rofl..

What did the English language ever do to deserve treatment like that?