Yep. You assume the invasion of Poland was the start it seems. Don't worry, many people make that assumption due to what we are taught in our public education system. Do some research, on Japan's actions in the very early 30's. Then do some research on what was going on after WW1 was "over" in Europe and South Africa - then Asia. While I understand people's reluctance to consider actions before the invasion of Poland - WW2 - I think that it is a mistake. There is plenty going on. One might say the formal war in Europe started in 1939, but it doesn't take into account the other happenings.
before gas chambers comes perverse behavior. before mass murder comes outrageous decadent behavior. we are not at that stage yet. as for morality, Hitler and his gang were not that. they were not religious, they were simple thugs. get the idea out of your head that this sort of thing only comes from the right side.
to the people here who say 9/11 was not a major incident, i have to ask, why must you support Osama's cause so openly? at least try to soften it up a bit
9/11's direct impact caused the stock markets to close for several days. the tens of thousands working at the WTC lost their jobs immediately. the broadway district in NYC suffered some of its greatest losses ever. our airlines went bankrupt soon afterwars, only to be revived by the feds. think about the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.
also, 9/11 changed world history forever. new alliances were formed, and the futures of several countries took a different course.
but year, 9/11 was a minor incident!
to the people here who say 9/11 was not a major incident, i have to ask, why must you support Osama's cause so openly? at least try to soften it up a bit
9/11's direct impact caused the stock markets to close for several days. the tens of thousands working at the WTC lost their jobs immediately. the broadway district in NYC suffered some of its greatest losses ever. our airlines went bankrupt soon afterwars, only to be revived by the feds. think about the hundreds of thousands of jobs lost.
also, 9/11 changed world history forever. new alliances were formed, and the futures of several countries took a different course.
but year, 9/11 was a minor incident!
Anything is ultimately possible, but I think that we would see such a situation in some European countries or even Canada before this happens in the US.
That's fine, you can believe what you wish, it still doesn't change the point that was made - that techs' post doesn't change anything, so it's silly to continue with your diversion.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2002
- 8,515
- 3
- 81
I'm sorry, but it sounds like you are suggesting that gay people (or some such) are the pre-Nazi warning signs. I must have heard that wrong, "decadent behavior" and "perverse behavior" don't lead to mass murder, nutjobs with a lot of idiot followers lead to mass murder. There are a lot of nutjobs out there, all they need is some followers.
As for where those followers come from, it's true that it isn't a right/left issue. But what seems to be universally true of the followers is that they place an irrational trust in their leader, rational people who think for themselves don't go along with gassing Jews just because their leader tells them it will protect their country. I blame the average Germans in the 1930s and '40s for being stupid sheep as much as I blame Hitler for what happened. Those kind of people are more dangerous in large numbers than the worst crack pots, because Hitler, without all that support, would have just been one more pissed of little racist.
Some say WWII started the day the Treaty of Versailles was signed. This put Germany into an impossible position that lead the eventual rise of Hitlers Nazi party.
If you dont buy into that certainly the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931 started the official armed hostilities.
Germany's invasion of the Sudentland and Austria were military operations the Allies appeased to in the hope Hitler would stop. Unsurprisingly he didnt stop and in 1939 with the invasion of Poland the Allies finally woke up to the idea Hitlers prestated goal of World Domination was not simply a hoax. Just because Sept 3rd 1939 was when France and Britain declared war on Germany doesnt mean it was the official start date of WWII.
A war is a thing that's declared, and there was no war declard when germany annexed austria. There was an official peace between all parties from 17-39, that should be enough reason.
And yes, the versaille treaty deifnently laid ground for WWII, it's later been used as a way you should not treat a country after a war.
The two wars were connected, but many wars are in some way.
Btw, did you know that inflation was so high that they printed 25.000.000.000Mark bills?
[edit]
I'd say yes, with the amount of supporters you have of Bush, then most likely. And they're mostly the gun owning rednecks.
[edit]
I'd say yes, with the amount of supporters you have of Bush, then most likely. And they're mostly the gun owning rednecks.
Thank you. Seems someone else has done more than just repeat the generic "history" we get taught in our public school systems.
I can hear it now, all the kiddies here are scrambling to google to figure out what the treaty of Versailles was. :laugh:
C'mon, everyone knows that Versailles was the match on the fuse for WWII. But to call that the start of WWII would be jsut daft, there was no war untill 39'.
It is naive to think appeasement by the allies didnt mean a war wasnt going on. It would be like saying OBL wasnt officially at war with us until 9-11 because we didnt do anything of significance after his previous missions but did after 9-11. Clearly action was being taken by Germany and the toppling of foreign govt and invasion with their military is war even if Britain and France didnt officially declare it.
Edit: While we had Japan in the east using their military in 1931 you cant forget Italy's invasion of Ethiopa in 1936. And the Anti-Comintern pact was also signed that year. The war was in full effect in the 1930s but people were in denial.
Yes, but we're still talking about a world war. That a few countries were rattling around doesn't make that the world war. You must remember, back then use of armed forces were still an "everyday" thing, and wouldn't seem as strange as it does today.
So because France and Britain declare a war that marks the beginning of WWII?
Doesnt really cut the mustard for me. France and Britain if they werent such appeasers back then could have picked a time anywhere after 1936 to declare the war.
Denail doesnt mean it wasnt happening. Britain and France just didnt want to believe or join in yet.
That's exactly my point! Whether or not they could haev declared war earlier, the day they declared war it became a war with more than 2-3 parties involved.
We will have to agree to disagree. Clearly hostibilities were happening before Sept 1939. The World War was happening.
"We will have to agree to disagree. Clearly hostibilities were happening before Sept 1939. The World War was happening."
Apparently we must, i can't see why though, this is pretty obvious.
That germany annexed poland, confrontation, was indeed a part of the buildup for wwii. But the moment more than 2 parties got involved, because both France and Britain were allied with Poland, that's when it became a world war. Would we still have called it a world war if the hadn't invaded Poland?
Apparently we must, i can't see why though, this is pretty obvious.
That germany annexed poland, confrontation, was indeed a part of the buildup for wwii. But the moment more than 2 parties got involved, because both France and Britain were allied with Poland, that's when it became a world war. Would we still have called it a world war if the hadn't invaded Poland?
There is in general at least 2-3 wars going on around the world at any one time. That's hardly any reason to say that there's a world war occurring is it?
The definition of the start of WWII was I think defined as the time the British Commonwealth declared war on Germany. This is when it truly became a global war with countries all over the world starting to move their economies towards war.
Small battles began occurring globally, especially in international waters with the hunt for German commerce raiders.
Going back on topic:
Think about the exact definition of terrorism.
A fairly standard definition of terrorism is "any act intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or noncombatants to intimidate a population or coerce a government".
The US administration however has a very broad definition of terrorism that includes attacks that would normally be considered conventional military attacks. The definition even considers a terrorist to be those who support organisations labelled as "terrorist". Any widening of the definition and anyone who speaks out of place could be carted off to Guantanamo without charge.
The people would of course support this, thinking that the standard definition of terrorism is being used.
If a law is in place already but the definition of one of the terms changes, does it nullify that law?
Edit: This compares with what happened in Nazi Germany. The people gave up their rights voluntarily when they were in fear of an unknown enemy.
The definition of the start of WWII was I think defined as the time the British Commonwealth declared war on Germany. This is when it truly became a global war with countries all over the world starting to move their economies towards war.
Small battles began occurring globally, especially in international waters with the hunt for German commerce raiders.
Going back on topic:
Think about the exact definition of terrorism.
A fairly standard definition of terrorism is "any act intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or noncombatants to intimidate a population or coerce a government".
The US administration however has a very broad definition of terrorism that includes attacks that would normally be considered conventional military attacks. The definition even considers a terrorist to be those who support organisations labelled as "terrorist". Any widening of the definition and anyone who speaks out of place could be carted off to Guantanamo without charge.
The people would of course support this, thinking that the standard definition of terrorism is being used.
If a law is in place already but the definition of one of the terms changes, does it nullify that law?
Edit: This compares with what happened in Nazi Germany. The people gave up their rights voluntarily when they were in fear of an unknown enemy.
WhipperSnapper
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2004
- 11,442
- 32
- 91
This is how I think foreign outsourcing and global labor wage arbitrage will play out. The percentage of Americans able to live a comfortable middle class life will slowly erode and being lower middle class and working poor will become the norm and few people will remember the times of the '60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's when ladders of upward economic mobility existed and when the American middle class was healthy (most of the time anyway). The U.S. will become just another overpopulated third world country but most of the people under age 50 won't remember the good ol' days. A thousand years from now historians will study the fall of the United States with the fascination that we pay to the fall of the Roman Empire today.
WW2 started in 1917 to 2005 because it is still being waged over when it begun by the same kind of Nazi mentality that knows it is right.
Nazi Germany is alive and well in the unconscious because each of us has been through worse than a concentration camp. But because the memory is deeply repressed we are only too happy to create it all over for others. We are the Germans and the Germans are us. If somebody touches our pain we will kill. We are Nazis because we do not know ourselves.
Nazi Germany is alive and well in the unconscious because each of us has been through worse than a concentration camp. But because the memory is deeply repressed we are only too happy to create it all over for others. We are the Germans and the Germans are us. If somebody touches our pain we will kill. We are Nazis because we do not know ourselves.
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