Cost of distributed computing, over 150$ per year per computer!

[The-Noid]

I don't want to threadcrap because I do run DC and I think that it is worth the cost of electricity.
What this thread really needs is a debate on where electricity comes from. Bring on more Nuclear, Wind and Solar and this will all make sense.

Now that I started thinking about it, can anyone explain the methods behind this Chevy Volt electric car? So you plug your car in to get electricity which a large majority of our electricity comes from coal.

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
Lets say that folding@home results have given rise to a new form of medication. You do know that it takes on average 12 years to go from idea to market dont you? So even if they discovered something in their first 5 year of crunching it would still not be out for sale yet.

It's only been 5 years since 1992? Are you sure about that?

Edited to what I intedned to write, not sure how I missed that word

Didint know they had been around since 1992. Hmm I thought it was ~2000. oops:sun:
thanks for shining the light on my ignorance.

 

[Insidious]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Now that I started thinking about it, can anyone explain the methods behind this Chevy Volt electric car? So you plug your car in to get electricity which a large majority of our electricity comes from coal.

The Chevy volt is what is called a "plug in hybrid". This means it's propulsion and energy storage systems are a mix (hybrid) of internal combustion and electric technologies. Also, you can add stored electric energy from an external source.

A conventional hybrid has a battery that is charged from the internal combustion engine (which is also providing mechanical drive) and the energy that is taken from the car during breaking (called regenerative braking. This is a method of providing counter force that is electromotive rather than frictional to convert the kinetic energy of the car to stored electricity and/or heat.)

A plug in hybrid has a battery that can also be charged from an external source of electricity. Further, the Chevy volt's propulsion is solely from electric motor(s). When the charge in the battery gets low, an internal combustion engine starts and runs a generator to provide electricity to propel the vehicle and re-charge the battery with any extra power not used for propulsion.

I think you are right on in the suggestion that people seem to believe they get their electricity free of environmental impact with a plug in hybrid. (Acid rain anyone?)

However, if cleaner sources of electrical power are utilized (such as solar, nuclear, fuel cells, wind, hydroelectric, etc... ) it is conceivable that overall environmental impact can be reduced greatly from what we create today.

You will have a small hydrogen fuel cell to power your house in this lifetime! Yeah, you'll have to buy the hydrogen, but how nice it will be to be "off the grid"

:thumbsup:

-Sid

edit: I think the Volt is projected to have up to a 40 mile range before the internal combustion engine runs, which means some commuters might never even spit out a single hydrocarbon while they use this car.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: PCTC2
I'd rather give charity in the form of computing cycles and electricity bills than give money to charities that use 50% of their income to pay the people who run the charity.

Well said and I totally agree!!

Same here for me!!

:thumbsup:

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Now that I started thinking about it, can anyone explain the methods behind this Chevy Volt electric car? So you plug your car in to get electricity which a large majority of our electricity comes from coal.

As others have noted the electricity will most likely come from "dirty" power generation sources but even today's powerplants are "cleaner" then an internal combustion engine in terms of tailpipe emissions.

However the idea is suppossed to be part of a bigger picture where these are the baby-steps that must happen in stepwise fashion to migrate to cleaner transportation.

Today's electric plugs into dirty power-plants, but today's dirty powerplant owners see the trend and start building new powerplants to meet tomorrow's demand (from all the cars plugged in) and new laws plus tax incentives require those plants to be cleaner, meaning tomorrow the power used for electrics will be cleaner.

Iterate as demand shifts from gasoline to electricity. 20 years later you might have 80% of cars on the road being electric plug-in and the emissions from the power plants built in those 20 years to support that new demand might be 1/2 as bad as today's powerplants (which are already cleaner than today's internal combustion engines)

Total carbon footprint.

 

[aigomorla]

first thing the new mod for this forum needs to do is lock this thread.

Guys... to each his own.

If WCG / F@H is how you want to donate to charity, then so be it.

Definition of Charity means giving without the expectation of recieveing. The fact that remains in the end of this flame fest is what have you given?

I say as long as the answer is something to that question and it makes you happy that is all thats important.

Charity also never makes sense. You dont get anything besides praise for everything you give, and on some occations a nice deduction from the government.


But to argue about energy cost on this and that... you need to think of what its for, and thats charity.


So the most important thing in this thread and what both argueing parties agree on, period, is that you should be giving something to a charity.

 

[Markfw]

You vote me, its locked.....

Us DC'ers stay in that forum, which doesn't even need a mod. I have never seen any comments or locked threads there. Somebody posted here to tell us its a waste. The whole thread is flamebait.

 

[Insidious]

I thought it was kind of funny the way they took turns picking a flame and then complained when they got it.

What? No one expected to be the entertainment instead of getting entertained?

:laugh:

 

[imported_wired247]

I am not going to concern myself with the added electricity expense of running F@H. I will consider it a very small monthly donation to something that I feel is worthwhile


as someone who does research for a living I know what it is like to fail to get support for your research.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: Markfw900
You vote me, its locked.....

Us DC'ers stay in that forum, which doesn't even need a mod. I have never seen any comments or locked threads there. Somebody posted here to tell us its a waste. The whole thread is flamebait.

While I am not adamant either way regarding this debate, its sad that we immediately lock the thread of something we don't agree with.

Anyone heard of free speech and/or discussing one's views? The thread is a legit topic, the comments that followed could be misconstrued as flambait, but the discussion is definitely valid.

Would a thread opened up to discuss if the current war in Iraq (not in the CPU area obviously) be considered "flamebait" just because it was controversial? I think not.

Let's not just censor items just because we don't like them. That's not what AT is about and it's just bad judgment to do so.

Edit: SP

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
While I am not adamant either way regarding this debate, its sad that we immediately lock the thread of something we don't agree with.

Anyone heard of free speech and/or discussing one's views? The thread is a legit topic, the comments that followed could be misconstrued as flambait, but the discussion is definitely valid.

Would a thread opened up to discuss if the current war in Iraq (not in the CPU area obviously) be considered "flamebait" just because it was controversial? I think not.

Let's not just censor items just because we don't like them. That's not what AT is about and it's just bad judgment to do so.

Edit: SP

I believe the word to summarize the spirit of your message is decorum.

A certain level of decorum makes for an enjoyable forum.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: Markfw900
You vote me, its locked.....

Us DC'ers stay in that forum, which doesn't even need a mod. I have never seen any comments or locked threads there. Somebody posted here to tell us its a waste. The whole thread is flamebait.

While I am not adamant either way regarding this debate, its sad that we immediately lock the thread of something we don't agree with.

Anyone heard of free speech and/or discussing one's views? The thread is a legit topic, the comments that followed could be misconstrued as flambait, but the discussion is definitely valid.

Would a thread opened up to discuss if the current war in Iraq (not in the CPU area obviously) be considered "flamebait" just because it was controversial? I think not.

Let's not just censor items just because we don't like them. That's not what AT is about and it's just bad judgment to do so.

Edit: SP

when someone requires more of an explaination on why were doing something without knowing anymore data... and then attacking the person for his "fun" thats a personal attack.

It turned personal a while back, and thats why i stopped posting period. I come back to look at who the nominee's for this section was and this topic was the first one up top. I was thinkn WTF? its still alive?

The fact that remains is charity itself is a good reason to do anything. If your giving something up at the cost of yourself, its called charity. It doesnt matter what it is, the fact your sacrificing for the better good of someone is enough to put a smile on my face.

I think we lost that concept. Its not the wasted money in electricity, its not the fact that were speeding the decay of hardware.... The fact is were doing something without selfish thoughts of our own. I WCG because i thought i would be nice to give up something i love. "Charity" im giving up my hours of finding a stable overclock, to the power draw on a machine which can produce error free solid results. That to me is something well worth giving.

I dont think it matters what you give. The important thing is that you given something. Me testing all these computer /watercooling parts, to share my experience and save people from making mistakes is another form of charity. Why do i do it? Because the face i get on a failed project is not something i want others to experience. So i try to save people from repeating the same mistakes ive made.

Anyhow... this is the last of my rant. I just wish this thread could be more civilized. i get mad at reading some of the posts, and have to just ignore it, you can only lead a horse to water, but cant force it to drink.

The fact is.... You should consider doing something for charity in your life. And not expect something in return.


DOE i just pushed this thing up by commenting this...

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Sweet, I'm showing this to my tax guy, can anyone say write-off. I've got two systems running seti@home 24x7. Thanks!

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Sweet, I'm showing this to my tax guy, can anyone say write-off. I've got two systems running seti@home 24x7. Thanks!

errr i hate to push this up again..

but i was meaning the deduction towards hardware. not power bill. :T

 

[Yellowbeard]

It's actually very understandable that some people reacted harshly to this topic and especially to the criticisms of DC. Virtually every US citizen is touched in some way by cancer and death is no joke. So, if a person wants to donate this way, that's great. If a person wants to work 8 hours and donate their pay in some way, that's great. However, people that don't directly donate to charities or DC for research are not bad people because of it.

Insults and personal concerns aside, I think we lost sight of the first post. Just because cancer research is incredibly important, it is not wrong to examine the costs of DCing and question its effectiveness. I don't think any of the nay sayers actually have the ability to stop any other pro-DCperson from DCing.

The actual hands on research done by doctors and scientists has far more immediate results. The use of DCing remains to be seen for the most part.

But, the flaming and arguing is typical of what has been going on far too much at AT over the past few months. When you add that to a volatile and emotional topic it really takes away from what is otherwise a good forum.

 

[Idontcare]

Personally I was quite impressed that this forum kept the majority of the contents of this thread contained within this thread.

Yeah we have a passionate thread on the front page of the CPU forum when the thread should be in the DC forum and should not be so passionate, but it's not like we have 5 of these threads crapping up the CPU forum and its not like these folks (for the most part) failed to put aside their differences when engaging with each other in the other threads.

I enjoyed the education side of the various points of view, not the best presentation style for some posters, but no one was born perfect nor died perfect, so...

"What happens in the Cost of distributed computing thread stays in the Cost of distributed computing thread"

 

[njdevilsfan87]

To people saying it's a waste... even though I personally don't fold (since I can't get SMP client to work properly), when you game... now that is a waste of CPU cycles, since during gaming you are doing absolutely nothing productive to yourself (except maybe relieving some stress) or society.

 

[Assimilator1]

njdevilsfan87
Pop over into the DC section maybe we can get the SMP client going for you.


I disagree that this thread should be locked.

Some common misconceptions were posted in here about DC & we've countered many of them, hopefully at least some people will now do DC that wouldn't before due to their old misconceptions.And even if not then at least we got a chance to have our say.

I do agree though that insults traded from both sides were unpleasant & spoiled the techical argument that was going on here.

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I don't want to threadcrap because I do run DC and I think that it is worth the cost of electricity.
What this thread really needs is a debate on where electricity comes from. Bring on more Nuclear, Wind and Solar and this will all make sense.

Now that I started thinking about it, can anyone explain the methods behind this Chevy Volt electric car? So you plug your car in to get electricity which a large majority of our electricity comes from coal.

I've often wished I had a bank of Solar panels to power a mini-fleet
Talking of which ,have any of our big guns considered solar or wind power?

Your 2nd point was way OT

DerwenArtos12
lol!

Yellowbeard
Insults and personal concerns aside, I think we lost sight of the first post. Just because cancer research is incredibly important, it is not wrong to examine the costs of DCing and question its effectiveness. I don't think any of the nay sayers actually have the ability to stop any other pro-DCperson from DCing.

The actual hands on research done by doctors and scientists has far more immediate results. The use of DCing remains to be seen for the most part.

You make some valid points ,I don't disagree with asking about the costs of DC ,but I do when the power figures are wrong thus giving incorrect cost figures (at least for the USA) & when statements are made about F@H based on no real facts (like saying 'I can't see how PCs can cure a disease') & making negative claims with nothing to back them up with.

Oh btw ,results from F@H will be used by 'hands on research' people

 

[Markfw]

Good points Assimilator1. Since this thread has gone back up in its civility, just watching it is probably better than locking it. It looks like I may have that chance soon.....

 

[Assimilator1]

Seeing as you're one of our big guns I'll ask you
Have you ever considered using wind &/or solar power to negate power bills? (& CO2 output too I guess). Might that not pay itself back in the long run?
I was reading in New Scientist a little while back that solar panels are much cheaper now than they were just a few years ago or so.

 

[Markfw]

Its cloudy here a lot in Oregon, so solar is not a good choice. Wind is not right here either. I think most (if not all) of the power in the NW comes from our dams, so ergonomically, we are OK I guess.

 

[Assimilator1]

Cool on the CO2 front ,but as for it being cloudy that's not a show stopper.
Germany has massively increased its solar power generation thanks to goverment subsidies, it's now generating 3Gw of electricity from solar power ,apparently that's about equivalent to 3-5 conventional power stations.
I doubt you have less sun than Germany ,do you?

Re-reading that NS article I mentioned I saw this:-

For example, in the US the average price of convetionally generated electricity is around 10c Kw/hr.The cost of solar generated electricity has fallen to roughly double that.
Damn ,that blows that idea out the window ,unless you live in California where apparently the cost is much closer to solar electricity.

Why's wind no good to you?

 

[Markfw]

Not much wind right here. But the dam power is pretty cheap, coming from Bonneville dam right up the river from us.

 

[Assimilator1]

How much is your electricity?