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Cost of distributed computing, over 150$ per year per computer!

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Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
7
81
Originally posted by: aigomorla
I ended up watercooling all my rigs because of stress.

Have you tried alcohol for the stress. Whoops, you meant your computers. :confused:

Originally posted by: hans007
then again, you do not leave your tv on 24/7/365 like folding at home computers.

Well, I've known some households that would seriously have the TV on 12-18 hours a day minimum, so pretty darn close.

Originally posted by: Idontcare
Computers are nothing, a 200W computer is exactly the same power drain as two 100W lightbulbs. Think about that when you look around and see how many lights you have turned on at any given moment.

When I moved into my new condo 2½ years ago, within the first two weeks I had pretty much every light swapped out for compact flourescents. Most of those draw only 12-15W.

Originally posted by: taltamir
If you are a lawyer that makes 500$ a hour, for fucks sake do NOT go spend a whole work day of 8 hours volunteering to serve soup to the poor...
Go work for 8 hours, and donate those 4000$ you made.. it will allow them to HIRE some of those poor to serve soup. Someone gets a job, other people get their soup served, everyone wins!

:thumbsup: Best post in this thread!
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Zap
When I moved into my new condo 2½ years ago, within the first two weeks I had pretty much every light swapped out for compact flourescents. Most of those draw only 12-15W.

I have bought my set of those bulbs 5 years ago.. And took them with me for 3 appartments already. I had to replace 3 of them so far. The rest kept on going at their 12-15watt... Oh, and I turn them off... in fact I would like to present this:
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn...34-K6105W-L&lpage=none

Motion sensing light switch... 15$ at lowes (there are a variety of other models available at 15 and 20$). I am curious as to how much power it takes to run it though... so far I just manually turn off the lights.


Originally posted by: Markfw900
If for no other reason than to test stability, F@H is a WAY better stability tester than prime. Try running your OC on 2 simultaneous instances of the SMP client for a week. If it doesn;t puke, or have an EUE (early unit end), then you are way more stable than prime stable !

Absolutely. When I want something stressed I install DC on it... i just remove it when I am done.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,071
3,575
126
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: aigomorla
I ended up watercooling all my rigs because of stress.

Have you tried alcohol for the stress. Whoops, you meant your computers. :confused:

LOL.... no i need something a lot more potient for myself. I think im beyond that wall. Wish people came wth a CMOS RESET button. Hell that would be nice on me too every time i sit at the office with an impossible task and go BSOD!
 

Amaroque

Platinum Member
Jan 2, 2005
2,178
0
0
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: aigomorla
I ended up watercooling all my rigs because of stress.

Have you tried alcohol for the stress. Whoops, you meant your computers. :confused:

LOL.... no i need something a lot more potient for myself. I think im beyond that wall. Wish people came wth a CMOS RESET button. Hell that would be nice on me too every time i sit at the office with an impossible task and go BSOD!

You can wire the reset button to clear CMOS! :p
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Originally posted by: Amaroque

You can wire the reset button to clear CMOS! :p

If the RESET button is EASILY accessible from the front panel this is probably not a good idea.

Most motherboards have three pins - the common, an operating position and a clear RTC position. For this to work correctly a SPDT switch must be employed. These are available in key format which works really well. Screw up, get the key out, insert and turn right, then turn left, remove key and start up clean! :D

 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,939
13,024
136
The sad thing is that nowhere in this thread is there any economic analysis of how much DC actually costs anyone, especially if they run it as a background app while doing light tasks otherwise. Using what little information is available to me, I recall that most DC projects were founded on the premise that the typical DC user would run the DC app as a background task which would chew up unused CPU cycles. The entire concept behind DC being useful as a cruncher of spare CPU time was born in an era when technologies like Speedstep and CnQ were either non-existent or far less effective than they are today. To put it another way, the swing in power consumption between a CPU at idle and at load has grown much larger than it was in the old days. Modern CPUs are much better at efficiently idling.

On the flip side, total power consumption of a non-overclocked CPU has gone down by quite a bit except in some extreme cases, and in those extreme cases, the amount of work per watt that you get versus other, lower-power CPUs of the same generation is actually quite remarkable when all cores are effectively utilized. Computers properly configured for DC apps, in this day and age, would probably utilize less power per core (while producing much greater results per core) at load than an older CPU would consume while idle.

In other words, running a DC app on your Q6600 would probably cost you less than four older machines from 5-10 years ago sitting idle.

Furthermore, I don't think it's really fair to say that the work being done in DC efforts is necessary worth less than the work that could be done due to direct donations. Please keep in mind that money does not solve all woes. Consider all the computers running f@h; do you have any idea how much more it would cost Stanford to operate and administer enough machines to replace all the work being done by f@h participants? Could they even sequester enough manpower to take on such a task? At least with f@h, people can build, tweak, test, and operate f@h client machines with their spare time that they could not or would not, presumably, monetize through work. In other words, that spare time being spent has zero real-world value in most (if not all cases), but the equivalent amount of time Stanford would need to run scads of clusters or mainframes to do the same work without f@h folders would probably cost them a lot of money in the form of salaried workers (there are only so many easily-exploitable grads and undergrads available for this kind of work).

Finally, it should be noted that folding with overclocked machines should not be held up as the de facto standard when it comes to assessing the costs of running DC apps. I can only guess at the true motivation that anyone might have when running a DC app full-time on a heavily OCed machine, but it should be obvious that OCed machines have worse power/performance ratios than ones running at stock (or ones running at stock speeds with significant undervolts). About the only reason I could see to OC a f@h machine would be to reduce turnaround times on processing key blocks, though with modern CPUs and the smp client, that should not be a big issue. Anyone looking to crank out the most keys per dollar spent on hardware and/or power would probably do a lot better with a lot of stripped-down clients running at stock speeds, undervolted, rather than OCing quads and watercooling them. The fact that anyone could do that and tune a system to run 24/7 without burning out all their hardware is impressive, but it is not necessarily economically efficient. Running a few OCed systems versus dozens of stock systems in a folding farm may be more feasible given limited space . . .

Anyway, I guess the point is, until anyone can actually prove that money spent directly on charities or on research is somehow more beneficial that time spent on a "charitable" DC project, the question of whether or not it is money well-spent is moot. It does stand to reason that the original underlying premise behind DC, namely that unspent CPU cycles still consume power and therefore can be used at almost no cost, is no longer applicable in most cases, and that furthermore many DC fanatics seem to go about DC in a way that is not exactly efficient or cost-effective except when it comes to conserving physical space. But hey, if that's what they want to do, then more power to em.

I don't run DC clients because I like to leave my machines off most of the time. I really can't afford to jack up my power bill any higher than it is. If I got rich or could figure out how to get someone to sponsor a DC effort as a promotional stunt, then I would run DC apps, though I would have a farm of stripped-down DC computers with efficient, minimalist PSUs, onboard graphics, no fans (if possible), probably no harddrives (if possible), and undervolted or LV/ULV/mobile CPUs rather than OCed behemoths. I'd probably have them all in racks in a colocation facility or something of that nature where the hosting fees would presumably be lower than the actual electricity bills I'd rack up trying to host all that hardware at home. Uptime would likely be much-improved as well, and hardware failures would be much less common than they would be on a monster OCed rig.

But hey, since I'm a (relatively) poor boy and since I haven't figured out how to get anyone to sponsor a colossal-but-efficient promotional DC effort, I'll just have to let my CPUs remain silent. For now.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: Amaroque

You can wire the reset button to clear CMOS! :p

If the RESET button is EASILY accessible from the front panel this is probably not a good idea.

Most motherboards have three pins - the common, an operating position and a clear RTC position. For this to work correctly a SPDT switch must be employed. These are available in key format which works really well. Screw up, get the key out, insert and turn right, then turn left, remove key and start up clean! :D

All the recent mobos that I've seen, only have a two-pin CCMOS jumper. But you're right, many of them used to be three-pin.

Too bad ATX cases did away with that keyboard lock switch from the old AT computers, it would have been perfect for this application.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
17,768
485
126
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

All the recent mobos that I've seen, only have a two-pin CCMOS jumper. But you're right, many of them used to be three-pin.

Too bad ATX cases did away with that keyboard lock switch from the old AT computers, it would have been perfect for this application.

A reed switch could be epoxied to the back of a blank 3.5" plate and its leads connected across the CLR_RTC pins on the motherboard. Clearing the CMOS table would be as easy as waving a magnet in front of the panel! :laugh:

 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
0
0
Has DC or FAH or whatever crunching people do, led to anything substantial yet? Not a jibe, honestly interested.
 

GLeeM

Elite Member
Apr 2, 2004
7,199
128
106
Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Has DC or FAH or whatever crunching people do, led to anything substantial yet? Not a jibe, honestly interested.

Here is a link to the list of published peer reviewed articles done by Folding@Home researchers. It's mostly too technical for me but they seem to think this stuff is important.

I see it as kind of like eliminating 1,500 possible electric light filiments in the search for something that will work and not knowing that it might take 2,000 tries to find the one that will light up.
While learning alot about the things that don't work, which adds to the total knowledge about what you are doing, perhaps helping in areas that you were not studing at the time.

It's what humans do!
 

Insidious

Diamond Member
Oct 25, 2001
7,649
0
0
It all depends on your definition of 'substantive'

I think a lot of people forget that this project is all taking place at a University (as are most DC projects) which is a place of learning.

If a student graduates without a Nobel prize, does that mean their education was wasted?

Education is a substantive persuit

Will the experimentation and learning produce something that is called 'substantive'?

I think the answer to this question is quite obvious.

-Sid
 

biodoc

Diamond Member
Dec 29, 2005
6,339
2,243
136
I must admit I am completely and utterly confused by this thread:(

Criticisms of DCers:

1) we are labeled as DC "freaks"
2) we are wasting electricity/energy supporting "bogus" research projects
3) we should shut down our computers and use the money we save to donate to "real' research projects or to humanitarian agencies.
4) we should underclock our computers to save energy

Those that criticize the DCers:

taltimir: (Since you started this thread I'll focus on you; please correct me if I'm wrong;))

1) builds and Overclocks custom computers
2) uses his OC computer (which uses more electricity than stock) for what , I don't know.
3) Is environmentally conscious (saves electricity and encourages DCers to do the same)

taltimir, what "higher purpose" (related to your Sig perhaps?) do you use your computer for?



 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,314
690
126
PolymerTim & DrMrLordX: Thanks for the posts. It's always nice to read a well thought-out posts. :)
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
8,754
1,759
136
Originally posted by: DrMrLordX

but it should be obvious that OCed machines have worse power/performance ratios than ones running at stock

That is usually false if you consider power consumption when making overclocking choices, do it in moderation instead of extremes. An o'c machine need not have extreme vcore increase if any, the CPU (and sometimes chipset and memory, but these too need not have large if any voltage increase) is to a point closer to linear performance increase from clockspeed increase and only a fraction of total system power. Even with vcore increase there is still the possibility of an o'c system having more performance per watt.

The above is less often true with a system that would sit idle most of the time, but when a DC project is taking spare cycles the amount of time the system runs vs work completed is significant.

That doesn't mean I advocate it, IMO it's a waste of power o'c or not.
 

PolymerTim

Senior member
Apr 29, 2002
383
0
0
Thanks for the compliment lopri!


Originally posted by: Insidious
Education is a substantive persuit
-Sid
Insidious, that is a great statement. Being in grad school myself, I shouldn't have overlooked that one. I was talking with a guy from NASA research one time about his expectations for graduate student research (a lot of grad students are supported directly by grants from govt groups such as NASA). What he said surprised me. NASA expects very little return on their investment for grad students in terms of research findings. Every little bit helps, but the primary reason they fund graduate students is for the graduate students. It shocked me at first, but after some thought I realized it is ingenious. NASA employs a lot of people that need a lot of technical education in specific areas. Some of these technical areas are not even common research topics. But if NASA puts out money to universities for these specific technical areas, then professors will happily accept it and hire students to work on it. NASA gets a little research out of it and then the student graduates. And guess where some of these students, with highly specialized technical expertise, end up working? It's all about grooming students for future employment.


Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Has DC or FAH or whatever crunching people do, led to anything substantial yet? Not a jibe, honestly interested.
As for the direct benefits of research, I think a lot of the general population doesn't realize how long it takes for efforts in research to turn into real products. Obviously there is a wide variety of kinds of research, but going from idea to public use can easily take a decade (or more if it doesn't go smoothly) in many circumstances. I mean, how long does it take Intel to design a new microprocessor? Aren't they usually working on these things about 3 generations (maybe 6 years) in advance? I don't know the full history of F@H, but from their results page, it looks like they started around 2000, primarily working on the platform and most of the real results started flowing in 2002. I'm no biologist, but skimming over the list of papers cited during the last 5 years, I'm pretty impressed. Even if most of these papers aren't directly trying to cure cancer, they are building the fundamental knowledge needed to better understand what causes it (in some cases), which will later lead to treatments.

This is similar to my own research where I have spent nearly 5 years working to improve the properties of a certain class of materials using a particular additive. Most likely this additive will never be commercialized, but the fundamental knowledge gained about how it behaves will be useful for future applications not only in my research field (high performance plastics) but in others as far reaching as solar energy and targeted drug delivery. Sometimes I look at the results of my 5 years and wonder how this could ever be cost effective, but then I remember that for every person who makes a breakthrough and develops a new technology, there are a few thousand researchers before them that contributed the fundamental knowledge necessary for that step. Like distributed computing, the strength of this research style lies in the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of researchers around the world, and they are collaborating through peer reviewed publications.

So in summary, has progress been made from DC projects? I would argue yes. They are baby steps so far, but baby steps are a necessary part of discovery.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: biodoc
I must admit I am completely and utterly confused by this thread:(

Criticisms of DCers:

1) we are labeled as DC "freaks"
2) we are wasting electricity/energy supporting "bogus" research projects
3) we should shut down our computers and use the money we save to donate to "real' research projects or to humanitarian agencies.
4) we should underclock our computers to save energy

Those that criticize the DCers:

taltimir: (Since you started this thread I'll focus on you; please correct me if I'm wrong;))

1) builds and Overclocks custom computers
2) uses his OC computer (which uses more electricity than stock) for what , I don't know.
3) Is environmentally conscious (saves electricity and encourages DCers to do the same)

taltimir, what "higher purpose" (related to your Sig perhaps?) do you use your computer for?

1. correct
2. I o/c very little, and without increasing voltage at all (sometimes decreasing), so generally performance per watt should be going up. not down.
I use the computer for everything. Gaming, TV and movie watching, research and learning, reading the news, social interactions, etc etc.
3. Correct. If you DO run DC, the BEST thing you could do is NOT leave your computer on to crunch when you are NOT using it... if you use older computers, remove everything (extra ram, hard drives, undervolt, etc) and make a stripped down farm out of them. Your main computer should be crunching when you are using it for other stuff. Then your power consumption is ~25watt per core above what your computer would have already consumed on idling (which is what it is doing when you are on anadtech forums for example)

My higher purpose is to deliver humanity from its impending self destruction and begin space colonization. :)


I am not necessarily saying you should not DC, I am saying you should be VERY aware of the costs... if you have a solar power rig at home, crucnh away. If you live somewhere with VERY cheap electricty, crunch away.
If you buy solar / wind energy from the grid then waste as much electricity as you can! the more electricity you waste, the more money the solar/wind power company makes, which allows them to invest in more plants, which reduces overall cost, which allows more people to afford solar/wind energy... and the cycle continues.

Also don't DC on your parent's computers without consulting them... its not "using their unused cycles", its sticking them with an inflated power bill. Donate out of your own pocket.


Someone asked for costs for someone who only crunches when he uses the computer. So here it is:
1 hour of crunching while you are using the computer anyways (its idling) takes 50 - 100 watts more.
0.05kwh to 0.1kwh a day (per hour/day).
x365 = 18.25kwh to 36.5kwh a year (per hour/day)
x cost in texas (0.12$) = 2.19$ to 4.38$ a year (per hour/day)
x cost in that other state someone mentioned (0.06$) = 1.095$ to 2.19$ a year (per hour/day)

So it comes out to 1.095 to 4.38$ per year per hour per day that you use your computer in idling that you also crunch in.
So if you used your computer for average usage (non gaming/video encoding) for 5 hours a day every day then it comes to 5.475$ to 21.9$ per year.
As long as your computer is off for the other 19 hours per day... otherwise the cost goes WAY up.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
taltamir, In the far future (probably for you, as you are probably a child) when you are on your death bed, dying from cancer, I hope you remember the day you crushed cancer research, as you were too cheap to fund it and convinced everyone they were wasting too much electricity.

You haven't read or understood a word any of us has said ? Including PolymerTim, who so elequently summed up how research works ? All you talk about is cost, not return.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: Markfw900
taltamir, In the far future (probably for you, as you are probably a child) when you are on your death bed, dying from cancer, I hope you remember the day you crushed cancer research, as you were too cheap to fund it and convinced everyone they were wasting too much electricity.

You haven't read or understood a word any of us has said ? Including PolymerTim, who so elequently summed up how research works ? All you talk about is cost, not return.

In the future, when I am an oldER man not suffering from cancer because I decreased pollution (the main cause of cancer). I will be glad to see other people cured of cancer because I helped divert funds towards more meaningful research into cancer curing and prevention.
also, with the rate of improvements in computers, I predict the crunching people do with their octa core core4 computers in 2010 alone is gonna be more then all the crunching ever done until 2005...

Besides, informing people to allow them to make an educated decision instead of exploiting their lack of knowledge by tricking them into inefficiently donating... I am not crushing anything. I am only informing people, who can then make an informed decision.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,071
3,575
126
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: Markfw900
taltamir, In the far future (probably for you, as you are probably a child) when you are on your death bed, dying from cancer, I hope you remember the day you crushed cancer research, as you were too cheap to fund it and convinced everyone they were wasting too much electricity.

You haven't read or understood a word any of us has said ? Including PolymerTim, who so elequently summed up how research works ? All you talk about is cost, not return.

In the future, when I am an oldER man not suffering from cancer because I decreased pollution (the main cause of cancer).

HPV Virus can cause cancer, not born from polution either.

NutraSweet has been linked to causign cancer, also not a form of polution.

I guess you also forgot cigerettes? Oh but thats causing polution...

Genomic Link to Partent, your mom has breast cancer, and your female, high probability you'll get it too. For men its prostate cancer, you know when the doctor sticks his finger up your :X Thats not caused by polution.

Artifical Anything... can cause cancer.

Radiation as well, Cell phones were linked to increases in brain tumors... you gonna stop using that?

WiFi is also theorized to be linked to cancer. Some schools have ban'd it entirely on campus.

Theres plenty of other ways to catch cancer... I guess your going to diss the project for the cure of AIDS as well on WCG, and then pass off the sterotype of "only gay people get AIDS" too?
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
But wait, we forgot, his sig says he is god, so he knows more than all of us.....How stupid of me...
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: Markfw900
taltamir, In the far future (probably for you, as you are probably a child) when you are on your death bed, dying from cancer, I hope you remember the day you crushed cancer research, as you were too cheap to fund it and convinced everyone they were wasting too much electricity.

You haven't read or understood a word any of us has said ? Including PolymerTim, who so elequently summed up how research works ? All you talk about is cost, not return.

In the future, when I am an oldER man not suffering from cancer because I decreased pollution (the main cause of cancer).

HPV Virus can cause cancer, not born from polution either.

NutraSweet has been linked to causign cancer, also not a form of polution.

I guess you also forgot cigerettes? Oh but thats causing polution...

Genomic Link to Partent, your mom has breast cancer, and your female, high probability you'll get it too. For men its prostate cancer, you know when the doctor sticks his finger up your :X Thats not caused by polution.

Artifical Anything... can cause cancer.

Radiation as well, Cell phones were linked to increases in brain tumors... you gonna stop using that?

WiFi is also theorized to be linked to cancer. Some schools have ban'd it entirely on campus.

Theres plenty of other ways to catch cancer... I guess your going to diss the project for the cure of AIDS as well on WCG, and then pass off the sterotype of "only gay people get AIDS" too?

That's why I said the MAIN cause and not the ONLY cause...
And I avoid ALL those things.


That god thing is a joke, you DO know the concept of a joke do you?


And please keep in mind that not only are personal attacks forbidden, they are detracting immensely from your argument, which is unfair. I do not want to be recognized as right because you demonstrated immaturity by attacking me and not my opinions. I wish to have a cordial discussion and learn and teach. Sharing knowledge with others. So please, focus on my actual arguments, so that I may learn of their flaws and faults and revise my opinions.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,071
3,575
126
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: Markfw900
taltamir, In the far future (probably for you, as you are probably a child) when you are on your death bed, dying from cancer, I hope you remember the day you crushed cancer research, as you were too cheap to fund it and convinced everyone they were wasting too much electricity.

You haven't read or understood a word any of us has said ? Including PolymerTim, who so elequently summed up how research works ? All you talk about is cost, not return.

In the future, when I am an oldER man not suffering from cancer because I decreased pollution (the main cause of cancer).

HPV Virus can cause cancer, not born from polution either.

NutraSweet has been linked to causign cancer, also not a form of polution.

I guess you also forgot cigerettes? Oh but thats causing polution...

Genomic Link to Partent, your mom has breast cancer, and your female, high probability you'll get it too. For men its prostate cancer, you know when the doctor sticks his finger up your :X Thats not caused by polution.

Artifical Anything... can cause cancer.

Radiation as well, Cell phones were linked to increases in brain tumors... you gonna stop using that?

WiFi is also theorized to be linked to cancer. Some schools have ban'd it entirely on campus.

Theres plenty of other ways to catch cancer... I guess your going to diss the project for the cure of AIDS as well on WCG, and then pass off the sterotype of "only gay people get AIDS" too?

That's why I said the MAIN cause and not the ONLY cause...
And I avoid ALL those things.


That god thing is a joke, you DO know the concept of a joke do you?

You going to tibet to study the ancient arts of buddism? Last time i checked theres WIFI even at starbucks, Desiel trucks i almost every city, and COWS will always fart Methane which adds to green house gases, so your going to become a vegan.


What you say and mean dont make sense. Are you faded or something when you go on the forums? Its like a jackle and mr. hyde dude.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Yes but those starbucks wifi spots are far away from me and as you know, energy and EMR dissipates over distance.
Most people have a high powered wifi-router at home, often in their bedroom or near the computer.
Mine had the wifi disabled (before I consolidated all my storage into one computer.. now the router is unplugged and I connect directly to the internet via a cable, gigabit ethernet FTW!)

I also never go to starbucks cause I don't drink coffee, and I don't go to macdonalds cause I don't eat poison.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,071
3,575
126
Originally posted by: taltamir
Yes but those starbucks wifi spots are far away from me and as you know, energy and EMR dissipates over distance.
Most people have a high powered wifi-router at home, often in their bedroom or near the computer.
Mine had the wifi disabled (before I consolidated all my storage into one computer.. now the router is unplugged and I connect directly to the internet via a cable, gigabit ethernet FTW!)

I also never go to starbucks cause I don't drink coffee, and I don't go to macdonalds cause I don't eat poison.

okey you win... Heres a cookie...

:cookie:
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,270
16,120
136
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: taltamir
Yes but those starbucks wifi spots are far away from me and as you know, energy and EMR dissipates over distance.
Most people have a high powered wifi-router at home, often in their bedroom or near the computer.
Mine had the wifi disabled (before I consolidated all my storage into one computer.. now the router is unplugged and I connect directly to the internet via a cable, gigabit ethernet FTW!)

I also never go to starbucks cause I don't drink coffee, and I don't go to macdonalds cause I don't eat poison.

okey you win... Heres a cookie...

:cookie:

I think aigomorla gave up because he couldn't stomach what he was reading, I sure can't.

Anybody got a good set of hipwaders handy ? Its getting deep in here....

taltamir, you sound like my neighbor, he ripped out his natural gas furnace to install a heat pump. He said they were way more efficient. It runs 24 hours a day when its below 40f, and his electric bill is probably $500 a month, since he didn't want to use $15 in natural gas (like me next door).

They probably used 10 times that much gas creating the electricity to run his heat pump. Penny wise, pound foolish.