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Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

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fskimospy said:
That's the thing though, they aren't trying. If anything they have INCREASED the number of special deductions, it's just that they have made them for rich people only. In addition, they have designed this bill so poorly that tax lawyers and accountants are going to have a field day finding new and inventive ways for their clients to avoid paying taxes.

Mark my words, this tax bill is going to cost a LOT more than they think because they have not done the due diligence to prevent the system from being gamed. If they are trying, then what they are trying to do is give large gifts to their friends and donors that people like you and I will pay for. Total scam.
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It's not lack of due diligence. They know what they're doing. Deficits don't matter when they're caused by tax cuts at the top. Their numbers are just a sales pitch & a come on to eventually crippling the govt with debt.
 
The sad thing is when it comes time to repeal this mess after Trump and Pence are gone a super majority vote will be needed. Since they front loaded some crumbs for most people the pressure to fix this mess won't be there.

The concentration of wealth is going to be on steroids from here on out.
 
Thump553 said:
The sad thing is when it comes time to repeal this mess after Trump and Pence are gone a super majority vote will be needed. Since they front loaded some crumbs for most people the pressure to fix this mess won't be there.

The concentration of wealth is going to be on steroids from here on out.
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Republicans scream about pork barrel spending yet they are responsible for some of the most egregious examples of it to date.
 
fskimospy said:
In addition, they have designed this bill so poorly that tax lawyers and accountants are going to have a field day finding new and inventive ways for their clients to avoid paying taxes.
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Do you think this is on accident? You think all those loopholes that the accountants and tax lawyers are finding just happen to advantage large real estate developers just like Trump and Corker? The entire purpose of this so called 'Tax Reform' was to give corporations and the rich more ways to get around paying taxes. Really look at the bill and ask yourself what else does it actually accomplish? It does not simplify taxes for anybody. It does not really do that much other than lower corporate tax rate and add in a bunch of loopholes for a very specific type of business.

Mark my words, this tax bill is going to cost a LOT more than they think because they have not done the due diligence to prevent the system from being gamed. If they are trying, then what they are trying to do is give large gifts to their friends and donors that people like you and I will pay for. Total scam.
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Not only that, this is going to cost a hell of lot more than the 1.44T number because that number is based on the idea that they will significantly raise taxes on the middle class at a later date. Do you really think any congress, Republican or Democrat is going to let that happen? It is political suicide. No, the Republicans are betting that they will lose majority before then and be able to blame the Democrats on the massive debt increase this bill will cause when they fail to let the provisions on the middle class sunset.
 
Jhhnn said:
So, blame the media? Really?
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They do hold responsibility in reporting, which has been rather poor on the tax bill that also guts a significant part of ACA. Not only on focus, but the usual corporate media does, "The Republicans say this. The Democrats say that." It allows one side to lie and BS constantly without getting called out adequately. Also kind of rich coming from you when you were pinning blame on Sanders for Hillary's loss.
 
mizzou said:
We need to do away with itemization and all the special deductions, the guaranteed $$$ check even if you pay nothing in taxes, etc. etc. . It's a completely unfair tax system. I was unhappy with what the GOP eventually passed, but much like Obamacare part of me thinks "Well at least they are trying, right?". Republicans can't even bring themselves into pairing down the welfare heap that is crippling us.

Maybe I'm not taking advantage of whats available....but when I see someone with a "business" on the side and hear about how they can list everything as an expense and itemize things left and right...something is terribly wrong. I had another friend of mine complain about how high his taxes are. I said, how much was your tax return? He said about 5-8K. I said, how much do you pay in federal taxes each year? He said, I don't know. Well I do know and his annual total contributions to federal taxes is around $5-8,000.00. So here is someone who pays nothing in taxes, complains about how much the feds take from him, and he is totally clueless about how good he has it.

The GOP plan does little to address this. My hope of having real tax reform is essentially all gone. So if I get a tax cut next cycle...and people like I listed above still contribute nothing...what the heck do they think is going to happen? We all need to contribute fairly.
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LMAO that you had any hope the GOP wanted to "fix" anything or have "fair" tax policies. A few of the honest ones have already stated publicly that this tax bill is to assuage their rich donors. It has very little to do with "reform" and it's sad that that word is even used. Can sensible people agree that the nominal corp tax rate is too high? Yes, but stealing from the middle class to pad corp profits (when the actual corp tax rate paid is far lower than the statutory max rate) is far from fair or equitable IMHO.
 
Jhhnn said:
It's not lack of due diligence. They know what they're doing. Deficits don't matter when they're caused by tax cuts at the top. Their numbers are just a sales pitch & a come on to eventually crippling the govt with debt.
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"it's not a bug, it's a feature"

i can only hope that a democrat majority congress will overturn this pile of crap.
 
Per a CNN article on Yahoo front page, 82% of the benefits of this tax cut will go to the top 1% over time. I have not seen this number before although I suspected it was high, but not this high. Any verification of where this came from? If true, it's crazy that the GOP have sold their soul to the top 1% and the fact that their supporters actually seem to love it even though they lose out in the deal.

Since this already passed the House today and will pass the Senate tonight, I can't wait to get my $4,000 in extra tax cuts and extra pay that my employer is going to give. Everyone of you should be happy!!!

Let the trickle down flow like fine wine.......
 
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Some banks are being honest about their intentions if the bill goes thru:

https://thinkprogress.org/wells-fargo-ceo-tax-reform-job-6b6b8462f239/

Also the guy who helped invent that bullshit idea is admitting its bullshit.

Even one of President Ronald Reagan’s economic policy advisers who helped shape the Republican myth of trickle-down economics now says it doesn’t work, calling the GOP rhetoric around tax cuts “wishful thinking.”
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To be fair, I have not heard a Republican actually use the phrase "trickle-down economics" in a long time. I frequently hear it from Democrats when they criticize GOP policy. But Republicans themselves prefer euphemisms like "job growth" and such.
 
shortylickens said:
Some banks are being honest about their intentions if the bill goes thru:

https://thinkprogress.org/wells-fargo-ceo-tax-reform-job-6b6b8462f239/

Also the guy who helped invent that bullshit idea is admitting its bullshit.



To be fair, I have not heard a Republican actually use the phrase "trickle-down economics" in a long time. I frequently hear it from Democrats when they criticize GOP policy. But Republicans themselves prefer euphemisms like "job growth" and such.
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They have never called it trickle-down. It's always supply side economics when they mention it. As for bullshit, there's a reason I've renamed it from Laffer curve to Laugher curve....because it fits much better.
 
Engineer said:
Per a CNN article on Yahoo front page, 82% of the benefits of this tax cut will go to the top 1% over time. I have not seen this number before although I suspected it was high, but not this high. Any verification of where this came from? If true, it's crazy that the GOP have sold their soul to the top 1% and the fact that their supporters actually seem to love it even though they lose out in the deal.

Since this already passed the House today and will pass the Senate tonight, I can't wait to get my $4,000 in extra tax cuts and extra pay that my employer is going to give. Everyone of you should be happy!!!

Let the trickle down flow like fine wine.......
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that "over time" probably includes the first ~8 years when the middle class and poor actually do receive a minor cut in taxes. But after ~2027, the top 20-15% actually receive 107% of benefits, according to analysis I heard this morning.

107%, yep. That means everyone else is going to be paying a good bit more when the time comes.

LoL. And that's all there in the bill with the sunsetting. It's there for anyone to read if they care to.

How any rational human can support these walking fucksticks defies all common understanding of humanity.


he, check this out:
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/5717...h-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class

Put another way, in 2018, households earning $1 million or more — or, 0.4 percent of all tax filers — would be getting 16.5 percent of the total benefit from the bill.

In 2027, households earning $1 million or more — 0.6 percent of all filers — would be getting 81.8 percent of the total benefit, even though their average tax break would shrink by about $26,000 over that 10-year period.
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LOL WOW. This is pure insanity. In the real world, this is called Grand Capital Theft. Good thing Ryan et al are polite white collar dudes, though, because they probably won't be going to prison for this. But hey, most thinking people consider this kind of massive wealth redistribution, especially to the extremely privileged and very few, to be highly criminal. If only we could catch Ryan robbing a 7-11 for a pack of smokes. That would probably get him 5-10.

But hey, good job republicans, you voted to make yourselves poor as fuck. Good job.
 
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House forced to re-vote on tax bill because of 3 provisions that break senate rules. Not sure if something had to be stripped or not.....

Edit:

From CNN's Phil Mattingly

Some technical provisions being stripped out of the tax bill because of Senate Byrd rules means the House will have to re-vote on the final tax bill tomorrow.

Both chambers are being notified of the changes now.

This is a small hiccup. It won’t change the timing on the bill or its fundamental provisions — but it will force the re-vote in the House tomorrow morning.
 
Maxima1 said:
They do hold responsibility in reporting, which has been rather poor on the tax bill that also guts a significant part of ACA. Not only on focus, but the usual corporate media does, "The Republicans say this. The Democrats say that." It allows one side to lie and BS constantly without getting called out adequately. Also kind of rich coming from you when you were pinning blame on Sanders for Hillary's loss.
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I didn't try to pin that on Sanders. I pinned it on his gullible supporters. He told them to vote for Clinton but a lot of them didn't listen. That's duh-version, anyway.

Repubs have been called out constantly over this tax bill. If you haven't noticed that then you're taking in too much of the wrong kind of media.

OTOH, they're obligated to faithfully quote the lies at the same time.

Everybody knows or should know it's a give away to their mega rich donors with some sweeteners for some other people. Shit tastes sweet. I'll bet you didn't know that.
 
As much as I hate this tax bill, I cannot deny that it will personally help me. Yay doubling of standard deduction and shifting everything over to business expenses.
 
Jhhnn said:
I didn't try to pin that on Sanders. I pinned it on his gullible supporters. He told them to vote for Clinton but a lot of them didn't listen. That's duh-version, anyway.
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If you want to blame someone other than Hillary, Comey and Jill Stein make a lot more sense. The Sanders voters thing doesn't make much sense.

"From the data above, I don't think you can make a convincing case that Sanders cost Clinton the election based on how his own voters behaved. A higher percentage of his voters backed Clinton than her voters backed Obama in 2008 or Rubio and Kasich voters backed Trump in 2016."

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cr...lary-clinton-the-presidency/?upm_export=print

Repubs have been called out constantly over this tax bill. If you haven't noticed that then you're taking in too much of the wrong kind of media.

OTOH, they're obligated to faithfully quote the lies at the same time.
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Many articles and commentary from the MSM strain to find positives on the bill. It's the common neutrality thing the corporate media does. I also don't think they're doing a good job showing how it's a health care bill as well. It guts the most important part of ACA.
 
Engineer said:
LOLOLOL...White House fluffer Sanders still claims that T-Rump will pay more under this bill than under current tax law.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-likely-benefit-new-bill-still-refuses-release-taxes-210746246.html

I'm not so sure that she isn't a bigger liar than Ego Von Tweeto himself.
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That's been a standard line in the Trump stump speech recently. He gets a serious look on his face, confesses that the tax bill will actually raise his taxes but he's backing it because it's the best for America.

A tear comes to my eye every time I think of the sacrifices he is making for us. No more Mr. Donald, no more. we beg of you.
 
Maxima1 said:
If you want to blame someone other than Hillary, Comey and Jill Stein make a lot more sense. The Sanders voters thing doesn't make much sense.

"From the data above, I don't think you can make a convincing case that Sanders cost Clinton the election based on how his own voters behaved. A higher percentage of his voters backed Clinton than her voters backed Obama in 2008 or Rubio and Kasich voters backed Trump in 2016."

http://www.centerforpolitics.org/cr...lary-clinton-the-presidency/?upm_export=print



Many articles and commentary from the MSM strain to find positives on the bill. It's the common neutrality thing the corporate media does. I also don't think they're doing a good job showing how it's a health care bill as well. It guts the most important part of ACA.
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The only editorial on the first 2 pages supporting this tax bill is the Boston Herald-

https://www.google.com/search?q=editorials+tax+bill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

The rest, as I point out, has nothing to do with tax reform & everything to do with creating dissension among Libs & progressives.
 
Jhhnn said:
The only editorial on the first 2 pages supporting this tax bill is the Boston Herald-

https://www.google.com/search?q=editorials+tax+bill&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

The rest, as I point out, has nothing to do with tax reform & everything to do with creating dissension among Libs & progressives.
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I know. It's early too and wasn't likely to force Republicans, but it's like the thing Frank Luntz put out about the media being 10:1 negative on Trump. What wasn't pointed out is Donnie's behavior is worse than that. XD
 
After reading through a few articles about some of the negatives and positives of this tax bill I believe I will be on the positive side of the bill. It has many advantages for self-employed people in my income bracket. I'm somewhat torn though because I realize that this is just a short term gain for me that will eventually have to be payed for by the generations that come after me.
I'm not a republican or democrat I didn't even vote in the last three presidential elections. I don't follow politics and don't have any interest in it so I have to believe this is what the majority of Americans want because this is who they voted for.
 
bbhaag said:
After reading through a few articles about some of the negatives and positives of this tax bill I believe I will be on the positive side of the bill. It has many advantages for self-employed people in my income bracket. I'm somewhat torn though because I realize that this is just a short term gain for me that will eventually have to be payed for by the generations that come after me.
I'm not a republican or democrat I didn't even vote in the last three presidential elections. I don't follow politics and don't have any interest in it so I have to believe this is what the majority of Americans want because this is who they voted for.
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It's not what they thought they voted for...

So, how are you doing w/o this tax cut? Great, right? The people at the tippy-top of the pile who sweated this out of the Repubs were already doing a helluva lot better than you are.
 
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