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Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

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I'm still amused that the GOP is utterly convinced that they'll see a political bump out of this that will carry the party through the midterms. Basically all the history and current polling indicates not. I understand their desire to cut taxes from the wealthy and pile onto the national debt to do it since that's their SOP.

People don't like the bill, they don't trust the bill, and aren't inclined to give the Rs any positive credit for it. Even some tax increases poll better than this is.
 
So why are we even having a vote?

Going on conservaterrorist logic the voters have spoken and they want to wait until after Jones is seated before anything is brought up to vote on in the Senate...

Good for the SCOTUS good for the Senate...
 
umbrella39 said:
So why are we even having a vote?

Going on conservaterrorist logic the voters have spoken and they want to wait until after Jones is seated before anything is brought up to vote on in the Senate...

Good for the SCOTUS good for the Senate...
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It was also good for the ACA when Massachusetts elected a Republican and the dems held off on the vote until he was seated (well they at least didn't try and ram it through).
 
umbrella39 said:
So why are we even having a vote?

Going on conservaterrorist logic the voters have spoken and they want to wait until after Jones is seated before anything is brought up to vote on in the Senate...

Good for the SCOTUS good for the Senate...
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Moore was important for this very Bill.
 
ch33zw1z said:
that doesnt really make sense to me, as much of the time its written off as "fake news", and this admin hates negative press and spends an enormous amount of time fighting facts.
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My mother told me that I was misinformed when I warned her about what this tax bill will do to her and how they tucked in the real estate LLC protections further enriching Trump and Corker.
 
In our 50's the wife and I are going to have to change how we are saving now. But who knows if that will do us any good. I'm sure they will have figured a way to convince low information fucktards that giving up your 401s and 403s to the rich is a good thing by then, too....

SS and Medicare are going to be gutted by the time she and I go to collect on all the years we have been paying into it. Yet in 8 years when our pittance has been rolled back and right as we are nearing our retirement we are going to be hit with the backlash of this POS tax bill transfer to the wealthy rollback. Then as we start trying to collect the little bit of SS we are counting on it will have evaporated. Thankfully I am fairly healthy. The wife is not. She will retire by 62 if she's lucky. I think I have another 20-25 years in me. The American dream... to work to 75 so I can support my wife and I for the last couple years of our lives if we live that long...

Its' fun to pretend that even the fan boys making 100-250K a year here are going to be so much better off but no, they aren't. Nurses/NP's/CRNA's I work with make more money than me in RT and some I work with have crunched their numbers. Making $120K-$160K a year with shift differential they are going to see about a $500 - $1000 a year relief. Yet someone making 10x that will see a $35,000 relief. Not exactly 10x more for those who are still afflicted by the GOP Fuzzy Trickle Down Math conversion...

This bill is a big, fat, stinking turd for anyone not already very rich... Please let me know when my hospital will be raising our pay to show their appreciation for all the money they are going to save with these new rates. I bet my premiums go down and they make up for the cost of living disparity! Trickle Down 5.0 in full effect...
 
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OILFIELDTRASH said:
Shit is corrupt on both sides. You are all fools to believe either side is looking out for you. It's a big money grab. This ship is going down and they're all looking to take as much with them as they can before this whole economy goes tits up.

Do the fucking math. I know someone that works shit jobs or no job and has four kids. Pays zero in taxes and gets 8k back every year at tax time. Not to mention free healthcare, free schooling for the kids, free medical, and free food too. I guesstimated that they cost the government easily 1 million plus over 18 years of this. Youngest and oldest are 8 years apart so figure about 26 years of riding the govt cheese mobile. How many of these people are out there? Millions. You think Joe Blow paying in 6k a year in taxes is going to offset the costs of all this? lol. Were fucked. No one wants to do what it would really take to turn this thing around. Probably 70 percent taxes and cutting some programs back too. No one wants that so let's kick the can down the road and see if China has some money to spare us.
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This is a terribly negative and pessimistic surrender to #bothsidesism.

It's not a lost cause. The economy won't go "tits up" unless we run it into the ground with mismanagement. We the voters.

Your attitude is a carefully curated response by the cynical wealthy to disarm and not demand better for yourself. Antipathy towards good governance and equality allows such garbage bills to exist, and enables wholesale looting of the treasury and destruction of the social safety net.

Are Ds perfect? By no means. But they do try. The ACA was targeted to help the poor, uninsured and vulnerable elderly. So is Medicaid. So is Medicare. So is social security. So it's sChip. So are Pell Grants and student loans. So are the myriad of regulations that try to protect workers and the environment from exploitation by those in power who do not care or can make more money.

Is it misguided at times? Yes. Does it come with strings? Sometimes. Can the Ds be clumsy and heavy handed? Certainly.
Does it still benefit you? Absolutely.

Does Trump or the GOP care about any of these things? A thousand times no. This year has proved it with their actions.

So I challenge you to inspire for better. This is still the most powerful and wealthy country on the planet, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

It's not just because of the wealthy. It's due to the everyday people that get up in the morning to work hard and make and do things for their families and their community.

We're not "takers" and the useless "47%" as Speaker Ryan charges as he rams this through. We're the ones that get the job done.

So be a patriot and demand better from this govt. Pessimism and hate is poison. Demand more for yourself, your family, your coworkers and your community.
 
Well its Tuesday and I'm watching the GOP's live press conference over this tax vote today. They're exuding with smugness right now and I find it repugnant. They say its for the people but we already know what people they're serving and it isn't us working poor.
 
Puffnstuff said:
Well its Tuesday and I'm watching the GOP's live press conference over this tax vote today. They're exuding with smugness right now and I find it repugnant. They say its for the people but we already know what people they're serving and it isn't us working poor.
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By "the people" they mean the people they know. Since they only associate with the donor class and lobbyists that's all they care about. The rest of us will get some bootstraps.
 
Puffnstuff said:
Well its Tuesday and I'm watching the GOP's live press conference over this tax vote today. They're exuding with smugness right now and I find it repugnant. They say its for the people but we already know what people they're serving and it isn't us working poor.
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Total insincerity has carried them for decades & they figure it still works. I mean, it has to work, right? Because that's all they have. Trickle down is a cruel hoax.

If anything, the election of Trump shows that it's working better than ever. It's the most astounding fraud ever perpetrated on the American People.
 
We need to do away with itemization and all the special deductions, the guaranteed $$$ check even if you pay nothing in taxes, etc. etc. . It's a completely unfair tax system. I was unhappy with what the GOP eventually passed, but much like Obamacare part of me thinks "Well at least they are trying, right?". Republicans can't even bring themselves into pairing down the welfare heap that is crippling us.

Maybe I'm not taking advantage of whats available....but when I see someone with a "business" on the side and hear about how they can list everything as an expense and itemize things left and right...something is terribly wrong. I had another friend of mine complain about how high his taxes are. I said, how much was your tax return? He said about 5-8K. I said, how much do you pay in federal taxes each year? He said, I don't know. Well I do know and his annual total contributions to federal taxes is around $5-8,000.00. So here is someone who pays nothing in taxes, complains about how much the feds take from him, and he is totally clueless about how good he has it.

The GOP plan does little to address this. My hope of having real tax reform is essentially all gone. So if I get a tax cut next cycle...and people like I listed above still contribute nothing...what the heck do they think is going to happen? We all need to contribute fairly.
 
Jhhnn said:
Total insincerity has carried them for decades & they figure it still works. I mean, it has to work, right? Because that's all they have. Trickle down is a cruel hoax.

If anything, the election of Trump shows that it's working better than ever. It's the most astounding fraud ever perpetrated on the American People.
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Southern pastors will sound the call to arms to Trump's redneck army and they will march to battle at the polls having drunk the poison. My parents support Trump and refuse to hear any news or information that's contrary to their position calling it fake news.

I'll stick to critical thinking weighing evidence even if it flies in the face of what I might believe to be true and changing course if its warranted.
 
mizzou said:
We need to do away with itemization and all the special deductions, the guaranteed $$$ check even if you pay nothing in taxes, etc. etc. . It's a completely unfair tax system. I was unhappy with what the GOP eventually passed, but much like Obamacare part of me thinks "Well at least they are trying, right?". Republicans can't even bring themselves into pairing down the welfare heap that is crippling us.

Maybe I'm not taking advantage of whats available....but when I see someone with a "business" on the side and hear about how they can list everything as an expense and itemize things left and right...something is terribly wrong. I had another friend of mine complain about how high his taxes are. I said, how much was your tax return? He said about 5-8K. I said, how much do you pay in federal taxes each year? He said, I don't know. Well I do know and his annual total contributions to federal taxes is around $5-8,000.00. So here is someone who pays nothing in taxes, complains about how much the feds take from him, and he is totally clueless about how good he has it.

The GOP plan does little to address this. My hope of having real tax reform is essentially all gone. So if I get a tax cut next cycle...and people like I listed above still contribute nothing...what the heck do they think is going to happen? We all need to contribute fairly.
Click to expand...

That's the thing though, they aren't trying. If anything they have INCREASED the number of special deductions, it's just that they have made them for rich people only. In addition, they have designed this bill so poorly that tax lawyers and accountants are going to have a field day finding new and inventive ways for their clients to avoid paying taxes.

Mark my words, this tax bill is going to cost a LOT more than they think because they have not done the due diligence to prevent the system from being gamed. If they are trying, then what they are trying to do is give large gifts to their friends and donors that people like you and I will pay for. Total scam.
 
fskimospy said:
That's the thing though, they aren't trying. If anything they have INCREASED the number of special deductions, it's just that they have made them for rich people only. In addition, they have designed this bill so poorly that tax lawyers and accountants are going to have a field day finding new and inventive ways for their clients to avoid paying taxes.

Mark my words, this tax bill is going to cost a LOT more than they think because they have not done the due diligence to prevent the system from being gamed. If they are trying, then what they are trying to do is give large gifts to their friends and donors that people like you and I will pay for. Total scam.
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Kansas on a national scale.
 
fskimospy said:
That's the thing though, they aren't trying. If anything they have INCREASED the number of special deductions, it's just that they have made them for rich people only. In addition, they have designed this bill so poorly that tax lawyers and accountants are going to have a field day finding new and inventive ways for their clients to avoid paying taxes.

Mark my words, this tax bill is going to cost a LOT more than they think because they have not done the due diligence to prevent the system from being gamed. If they are trying, then what they are trying to do is give large gifts to their friends and donors that people like you and I will pay for. Total scam.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you on this. Though the kicker here is there's a pile of Repub legislators that won't pay for the damage they've caused either because they gerrymandered themselves safe or their own middle class constituents will let all of this fly right over their heads like the good little patriotic Americans they are who are more than willing to sacrifice their paychecks in order to stay loyal to God and Party.

They will force themselves to live in a state of denial even as they see their taxes go up up up and even as they see their fellow citizens lose their health care, their medicare, their social security and whatever else their party sees fit in order to make up for the big bulge in the deficit they've created. It's not the wealthy that's going to be affected by this increase in deficit. Not at all.

As we've all come to notice, the burden will be carried on the backs of the middle class and the poor as ever, and the supporters of this rape on the working class via voting for those legislators who perpetrated this crime will simply bite the bullet, shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears two knuckles deep and shove their heads up their asses unless of course, their selective hearing detects the voices of their chosen legislators blaming the Democrats for their misery, pain and financial demise.

They will then come out like a horde of army ants defending their right to screw themselves over every single time they hear the call to battle.

The insanity continues on.
 
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