Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

[Sonikku]

Create a huge gap in the budget with tax cuts for the rich then cut medicare and social security to fill the gap under the pretense of "heroic sacrifices" to keep them sustainable. That's the real wealth redistribution in America.

 

[WHAMPOM]

If they are proposing large tax cuts, it's going to have the same result that it did under GWB and Reagan. The deficit and debt will mushroom. Trump wants to raise military and border security spending, and he doesn't have anywhere near the cuts necessary to cover the budget shortfall. Amazing that so many people still think the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility when it's past history and current actions scream the opposite.

Hay Now!! You have judge the party by what they say they do, not what they do do. And the Republican party does generate a lot of do-do. Which their faithful followers faithfully swallow whole.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Think about it. The country's industrial might was built at a time of a 90% tax with the only deduction for reinvestment in a business.

 

[Bitek]

Deficit neutral? LOLOLOL!!!

Also, notice he wants to get back to entitlement reform? That's his dream to cut SS and Medicare....no two ways about it.

That's how it becomes "deficit neutral."

Just end SS, Medicare and Medicaid for all the "takers", as well as all govt functions other than DoD. Then you don't need to collect taxes from rich ppl anymore. Paul Ryan's wet dream.

 

[ElFenix]

Create a huge gap in the budget with tax cuts for the rich then cut medicare and social security to fill the gap under the pretense of "heroic sacrifices" to keep them sustainable. That's the real wealth redistribution in America.

it's been a 35 year process to get this done, but that's basically what's happened between reagan/greenspan's huge jump in the social security tax rate (causing those massive surpluses social security ran until the late 90s)*, which enabled deficit cover for the reagan tax cuts, and then bush tossed a lot of poors off the income tax rolls, which was followed by a decade of 'skin in the game' talk, nevermind that the poors had been paying that social security surplus into the general treasury which now won't be paid back.

long game, son.





*which has caused a couple generations to feel that social security tax rates are unchanging, nevermind that they'd been increased something like every other year for the prior 50 years as social security was run to break even

 

[Fern]

Think about it. The country's industrial might was built at a time of a 90% tax with the only deduction for reinvestment in a business.

Please elaborate on this, and provide some links too.

TIA

Fern

 

[Engineer]

Finally someone from the GOP notices that this could be a tax hike on 30% of middle class when it was supposed to be ALL ABOUT the middle class....

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16403928/rand-paul-tax-reform

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Finally someone from the GOP notices that this could be a tax hike on 30% of middle class when it was supposed to be ALL ABOUT the middle class....

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16403928/rand-paul-tax-reform

Good to see some people realizing this plan is garbage.

The first thing I assumed when I saw the # of tax brackets dropping from 7-3 is that the rich would see their taxes go down and I would likely be moved up into their bracket. I still don't know what incomes will fall under which brackets, but I'd be both pissed and unsurprised if I ended up in the same tax bracket as someone making $5mil/yr.

If the goal of this plan was to make the rich richer and keep the middle/upper middle class from moving up, this plan would make sense to me.

 

[trenchfoot]

It is and always has been the GOP agenda to stick it to the working class in order to benefit the aristocrat class.

This joke of a "tax reform" plan is just as it was described by Bush in reference to Reagan's "voodoo economics" plan. This "tax reform" plan is just a continuance of what the supply-siders from Wall Street have been pushing for and succeeding with every Repub president and Congress that they've owned since Reagan decided to side with them.

Until the Repubs come up with a plan that exclusively benefits the working class and makes the wealthy pay for it in order to start leveling the imbalance that the Wall Street supply sider's had created for themselves, it's just more of the same crap coming out of the GOP bullshit mill that trickling down little drips of pennies and nickles to the working class while keeping all the rest for the very wealthy will make the nation great again.

But who is it that the Repubs want to "make America great again" for is something they will never be honest about.

Never.

 

[Engineer]

It is and always has been the GOP agenda to stick it to the working class in order to benefit the aristocrat class.

As Romney put it, it's called "broadening the base".

 

[Engineer]

From one of the people who helped create the "GOP Tax Myth"....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uts-dont-equal-growth/?utm_term=.6cd39e1a2070

Last week, Republican economist Arthur Laffer said, “If you cut that [corporate] tax rate to 15 percent, it will pay for itself many times over. … This will bring in probably $1.5 trillion net by itself.”

That’s wishful thinking. So is most Republican rhetoric around tax cutting. In reality, there’s no evidence that a tax cut now would spur growth.

The Reagan tax cut did have a positive effect on the economy, but the prosperity of the ’80s is overrated in the Republican mind. In fact, aggregate real gross domestic product growth was higher in the ’70s — 37.2 percent vs. 35.9 percent.

Moreover, GOP tax mythology usually leaves out other factors that also contributed to growth in the 1980s: First was the sharp reduction in interest rates by the Federal Reserve. The fed funds rate fell by more than half, from about 19 percent in July 1981 to about 9 percent in November 1982. Second, Reagan’s defense buildup and highway construction programs greatly increased the federal government’s purchases of goods and services. This is textbook Keynesian economics.

You know, the GOP used to use the Laffer curve (now called the Laugher curve as far as I'm concerned) in that there was a sweet spot in the middle for tax rates vs revenue. If you cut or raised taxes too much, you wouldn't have the revenue needed to run things. Now, it seems, that as rates approach zero, revenue approaches infinity (hence Laugher).

The underlined part will cause Cheeto Von Tweeto and his little dog Ryan to become unhinged....as well as a few other billionaire cabinet members.

Other tidbits from Bartlett in the article. I'm sure he will be dismissed as a RINO.

 

[Jhhnn]

From one of the people who helped create the "GOP Tax Myth"....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uts-dont-equal-growth/?utm_term=.6cd39e1a2070



You know, the GOP used to use the Laffer curve (now called the Laugher curve as far as I'm concerned) in that there was a sweet spot in the middle for tax rates vs revenue. If you cut or raised taxes too much, you wouldn't have the revenue needed to run things. Now, it seems, that as rates approach zero, revenue approaches infinity (hence Laugher).

The underlined part will cause Cheeto Von Tweeto and his little dog Ryan to become unhinged....as well as a few other billionaire cabinet members.

Other tidbits from Bartlett in the article. I'm sure he will be dismissed as a RINO.

Reagan/GHWB? Anybody can look good stimulating the economy while cutting taxes & quadrupling the national debt. Well, until deregulated S&L's blew up the economy & forced bailout. GWB cut taxes at the top, nearly doubled the debt again, then crashed it when that wasn't enough liquidity to cover Wall St's deregulated games.

Ready for another run at it? Maybe this time the guys at the top will finally finish the rest of us off, huh?

 

[Sonikku]

Reagan/GHWB? Anybody can look good stimulating the economy while cutting taxes & quadrupling the national debt. Well, until deregulated S&L's blew up the economy & forced bailout. GWB cut taxes at the top, nearly doubled the debt again, then crashed it when that wasn't enough liquidity to cover Wall St's deregulated games.

Ready for another run at it? Maybe this time the guys at the top will finally finish the rest of us off, huh?

How the hell do these clowns continue to hold so much of government hostage??

 

[Jhhnn]

How the hell do these clowns continue to hold so much of government hostage??

Because they employ extremely effective propaganda about a lot of other highly emotional issues they don't really care about to get people to vote for them. No matter their position on any other issue, they're all about maintaining the false promises of so-called trickle down economics.

 

[Meghan54]

Please elaborate on this, and provide some links too.

TIA

Fern

Fern,

The top marginal tax rate, which was 25% in 1930, increased to 63% in 1932 and became 79% in 1936. The top marginal tax rate then bounced around mid-80% to low 90% from 1940 through 1964, when it was reduced to 77%.

The number of brackets did decrease from 55 brackets in 1932 to 24 brackets in 1942 and up to 33 brackets in 1968. The huge decrease in brackets and top marginal tax rate were done via Reagan. (1981-69.125%; 1988-28%)

You can go to Wiki here...laid out nicely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

Or you can follow the next link if you want to really delve into all the tax brackets that existed over the years:
https://taxfoundation.org/us-federa...2013-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets/

 

[ivwshane]

Fern,

The top marginal tax rate, which was 25% in 1930, increased to 63% in 1932 and became 79% in 1936. The top marginal tax rate then bounced around mid-80% to low 90% from 1940 through 1964, when it was reduced to 77%.

The number of brackets did decrease from 55 brackets in 1932 to 24 brackets in 1942 and up to 33 brackets in 1968. The huge decrease in brackets and top marginal tax rate were done via Reagan. (1981-69.125%; 1988-28%)

You can go to Wiki here...laid out nicely.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

Or you can follow the next link if you want to really delve into all the tax brackets that existed over the years:
https://taxfoundation.org/us-federa...2013-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets/

His reply will then be to point out to you that nobody paid those rates and that the effective tax rates were much lower.

Of course he will also ignore that nobody pays the current marginal rate now either and the current effective rate is still way lower than the effective rate back then.

 

[ch33zw1z]

How the hell do these clowns continue to hold so much of government hostage??

Easily manipulated voters.

 

[brycejones]

From one of the people who helped create the "GOP Tax Myth"....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...uts-dont-equal-growth/?utm_term=.6cd39e1a2070



You know, the GOP used to use the Laffer curve (now called the Laugher curve as far as I'm concerned) in that there was a sweet spot in the middle for tax rates vs revenue. If you cut or raised taxes too much, you wouldn't have the revenue needed to run things. Now, it seems, that as rates approach zero, revenue approaches infinity (hence Laugher).

The underlined part will cause Cheeto Von Tweeto and his little dog Ryan to become unhinged....as well as a few other billionaire cabinet members.

Other tidbits from Bartlett in the article. I'm sure he will be dismissed as a RINO.

Kansas has proven the Laffer curve to be utter and complete bull shit. The GOP loves to tout the states as laboratories of democracy where experiments can be run so other states and federal government can learn. Kansas ran the full on supply side experiment. It failed completely and utterly. The budget was a shambles, state services were cut left and right, and economic growth was not improved. The only thing that happened is that so called "job creators" put more money in the back or sent their extra money out of state.

 

[Engineer]

Even Bush tax cuts were better to middle class than this steaming pile (and that doesn't include the fact that nearly 30% of the middle class could see a hike from this)...Just look at those big tall red lines at the top 1 and .1% ranges vs the others.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/real-middle-class-tax-cut/541779/

 

[Engineer]

Companies may use extra money from tax cuts......to automate.

From the fake news site....

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...fits-to-invest-in-automation-experts-say.html

Good for automation companies, unless imported (and yes, many do, especially Japanese companies), I suppose.

 

[TheVrolok]

Companies may use extra money from tax cuts......to automate.

From the fake news site....

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...fits-to-invest-in-automation-experts-say.html

Good for automation companies, unless imported (and yes, many do, especially Japanese companies), I suppose.

Republican voters are doing it to themselves. Unfortunately, they're doing it to everyone else as well.

 

[Ajay]

Companies may use extra money from tax cuts......to automate.

From the fake news site....

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...fits-to-invest-in-automation-experts-say.html

Good for automation companies, unless imported (and yes, many do, especially Japanese companies), I suppose.

That sounds about right. There is allot of wage pressure right now, so with greater liquidity companies might loosen the purse strings a bit more as well. Mixed bag for sure as investors will expect to be rewarded as well (by more than 'simple' stock gains).

 

[Engineer]

That sounds about right. There is allot of wage pressure right now, so with greater liquidity companies might loosen the purse strings a bit more as well. Mixed bag for sure as investors will expect to be rewarded as well (by more than 'simple' stock gains).

Yeah, probably lots of dividend increases.

 

[Jhhnn]

Companies may use extra money from tax cuts......to automate.

From the fake news site....

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...fits-to-invest-in-automation-experts-say.html

Good for automation companies, unless imported (and yes, many do, especially Japanese companies), I suppose.

Yep, the iinvestor class intends to thank the voters for some nice tax cuts with... robot cornholio! Never goes limp, gets tired or becomes disinterested, calls in sick or goes on vacation. No drug testing or health insurance, no employee handbooks, no nothing. It's a relentless pipe laying machine 24/7/365. No unemployment benefits, either. Just switch it off.

 

[Engineer]

Was reading the 'Framework' for this tax 'reform' at Whitehouse.gov this morning and there is a consistent theme of 'simpler'. They remove individual exemptions to make the taxes simpler yet add other credits (fixed - not indexed for inflation - important to get those with dependents to pay more over time) which brings us right back to where we were in complexity (which, in today's taxes done on a PC, isn't). Also removing the tax brackets from 7 to 3 to make it 'simpler'. Again, why does that matter? It's all on software or tax tables so what difference in simplicity does that make?

Anyone who works through the numbers and looks at what's going to happen over time will realize that this is a slow tax hike on the middle and lower classes and a giant instant cut on those at the top or corporations. I'm at the point I'm not going to spend my time worrying about whether the top gets a cut because they will get it regardless of my opinion. However, I won't sit idly by and let them raise my and other lower and middle class family taxes in order to finance the massive tax cut at the top. To that point, I give Rand Paul some credit (and that's very rare - even though he's my senator).