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Corrected title: Now the GOP has accomplished massive tax reform

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pad23amg said:
Well, giving Tax relaxation for companies as well as middle class individuals will surely affect the spending level in market and will gradually help the overall growth. Tax relaxation will encourage companies to generate more products in less cost thus increasing the job opportunity .
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Doubtful. Few companies fail to meet demand because they don't have enough capital. If their product is profitable there is ample investment capital to help them meet demand. Companies take a windfall like a tax cut to lower costs and increase profits per unit, by doing stuff like automating and offshoring. That means that 'tax relaxation' on corporations will lead to fewer jobs which will in turn create a increase in the supply of qualified applicants which in turn means lower wages.

Which is exactly what we saw in Kanas when they tried this.
 
SMOGZINN said:
Doubtful. Few companies fail to meet demand because they don't have enough capital. If their product is profitable there is ample investment capital to help them meet demand. Companies take a windfall like a tax cut to lower costs and increase profits per unit, by doing stuff like automating and offshoring. That means that 'tax relaxation' on corporations will lead to fewer jobs which will in turn create a increase in the supply of qualified applicants which in turn means lower wages.

Which is exactly what we saw in Kanas when they tried this.
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Considering the amount of investment capital floating around looking for something to invest in, capital costs are at some of their lowest levels in history. It is unlikely that lowering them further will spark much additional investment.

The most likely answer for these changes is the most obvious one: they will overwhelmingly put money in the pockets of the rich. I imagine over the next few months Republicans will come up with all sorts of inventive lies and distortions to attempt to hide this fact, but we all know it's true. Reducing the tax burden on the rich has been the #1 public policy priority for the Republican Party for the last 30 years and I see no signs of that changing.
 
Jhhnn said:
It won't change the lifestyles of the mega rich in the slightest, other than maybe hiring more security. It just lets them acquire assets at fire sale prices.
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Is that why they spend hundreds of billions trying to get people to buy stuff? Why don't they just use that money to buy assets instead? Because it's not just about assets, it's about getting a return on them. Tax cuts don't effect their lifestyles in the slightest either, but look at them selling the country out for just a little bit more. Stop buying crap, you will be happier too.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
... Followed immediately by the 'Make America Buy Again' EO, which will mandate that all citizens spend at minimum 20% of their taxable income (to a cap of $100k, of course) on commercial goods, no more than 20% of which is made in America
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That would lower corporate profitability, Republicans will never allow it.
 
senseamp said:
Is that why they spend hundreds of billions trying to get people to buy stuff? Why don't they just use that money to buy assets instead? Because it's not just about assets, it's about getting a return on them. Tax cuts don't effect their lifestyles in the slightest either, but look at them selling the country out for just a little bit more. Stop buying crap, you will be happier too.
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They have the luxury of playing it one way on the way up & reversing their field on the way down.

It's Puerto Rican bonds & Greek bonds in a slightly different realm. Securitizers separate the buyer & the seller, tell them both what they want to hear & profit. A lot. A whole shitpile. When it all goes to Hell just as securitizers knew it would the actual investors are left to beat whatever money they can out of the hapless borrowers. The only time the securitizers get beat is if they buy into their own bullshit & get caught holding the bag themselves a la the Ownership Society. Even then it just kills the horse, not the rider.
 
Jhhnn said:
They have the luxury of playing it one way on the way up & reversing their field on the way down.

It's Puerto Rican bonds & Greek bonds in a slightly different realm. Securitizers separate the buyer & the seller, tell them both what they want to hear & profit. A lot. A whole shitpile. When it all goes to Hell just as securitizers knew it would the actual investors are left to beat whatever money they can out of the hapless borrowers. The only time the securitizers get beat is if they buy into their own bullshit & get caught holding the bag themselves a la the Ownership Society. Even then it just kills the horse, not the rider.
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They are buying securities primarily from people like themselves. Ultimately it is about holding income streams. Kill the income, and equity is worthless. But more to the point, a major depression and failure of free markets will create lasting political implications, like the New Deal.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
To add to this, there's a very high likelihood that any of those individuals losing their home/foreclosing/selling will now become renters, giving their money to someone else rather than building equity/family wealth, and I say that as both a renter and a rentee. Owning a home is generally the Best Thing (tm) the average person will obtain in their lifetime, and most of their work leads to that end. Dropping an extra $200-$300 on families will have a severe effect on the lower 50% of home owners.
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Makes no sense, home ownership is in general good for the economy. This looks like another give away to the wealthy at the expense of the everybody else.
 
senseamp said:
They are buying securities primarily from people like themselves. Ultimately it is about holding income streams. Kill the income, and equity is worthless. But more to the point, a major depression and failure of free markets will create lasting political implications, like the New Deal.
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Those securities end up in people's 401k plans & pension funds, also the portfolios of people whose wealth is quite modest compared to the titans of Wall St & the giant conglomerates that collect economic rents in energy, transportation, housing, communication & insurance.It all floats on credit & they're not shy about lending people more money than they can pay back.
 
Jhhnn said:
Those securities end up in people's 401k plans & pension funds, also the portfolios of people whose wealth is quite modest compared to the titans of Wall St & the giant conglomerates that collect economic rents in energy, transportation, housing, communication & insurance.It all floats on credit & they're not shy about lending people more money than they can pay back.
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So you are spending money on stuff to have more money in 401k? Brilliant!
 
senseamp said:
So you are spending money on stuff to have more money in 401k? Brilliant!
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So you're being deliberately obtuse?

You must be extremely well off & rather callous to welcome the notion that we should crash the economy. The first people to lose their jobs are the people who can least afford it & the last to go back to work when the bubble economy looting cycle starts over again. Wild economic swings are poison to people who have little wealth & large overhead relative to income but great for people who can ride the waves like a supercarrier.
 
Jhhnn said:
So you're being deliberately obtuse?

You must be extremely well off & rather callous to welcome the notion that we should crash the economy. The first people to lose their jobs are the people who can least afford it & the last to go back to work when the bubble economy looting cycle starts over again. Wild economic swings are poison to people who have little wealth & large overhead relative to income but great for people who can ride the waves like a supercarrier.
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The low wealth people keep voting to gut their own safety net, which is why economic swings are poison to them. A crash will teach them some important lessons, like the Great Depression did, leading to similar prosperity that the New Deal led to, instead of the slow oligarchical rot we are in now.
 
senseamp said:
The low wealth people keep voting to gut their own safety net, which is why economic swings are poison to them. A crash will teach them some important lessons, like the Great Depression did, leading to similar prosperity that the New Deal led to, instead of the slow oligarchical rot we are in now.
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history.txt
 
senseamp said:
The low wealth people keep voting to gut their own safety net, which is why economic swings are poison to them. A crash will teach them some important lessons, like the Great Depression did, leading to similar prosperity that the New Deal led to, instead of the slow oligarchical rot we are in now.
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Whatever they learned in 2008 they'd forgotten by 2010. People often make big mistakes when they're fearful & stressed, as well. Witness Hitler's Germany.
 
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Says it all......
 
pad23amg said:
Well, giving Tax relaxation for companies as well as middle class individuals will surely affect the spending level in market and will gradually help the overall growth. Tax relaxation will encourage companies to generate more products in less cost thus increasing the job opportunity .
Click to expand...

In the real world, these policies have only ever led to higher profits for the executives, as they chose to trap those savings, and lower wages and less jobs as they further choose to ship those jobs over seas or funnel those glorious new savings into cost of automation startup. Such a great idea, you know: too bad it never works. Supply-side economics is a myth, perpetuated by morons.
 
Jhhnn said:
Whatever they learned in 2008 they'd eforgotten by 2010. People often make big mistakes when they're fearful & stressed, as well. Witness Hitler's Germany.
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It's not going to be a voluntary thing. Once the jobs are automated away, without safety net, consumers will tap out. And boy is automation coming.
 
Public seems not quite on board with the current tax plan...34% approve

A slim majority of Americans (52%) oppose President Donald Trump's recent tax reform proposals, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS, while only one-third (34%) say they support the Trump plan.

Support is split largely along party lines: eight-in-10 Democrats (81%) say they oppose the plans, but seven-in-10 Republicans (70%) say they support them. Independents break against the proposals: 50% opposed to 35% in favor. About 14% say they don't have an opinion.
Indeed, half of Americans disapprove of the way Trump is handling taxes, the highest level in CNN polling so far, while only 36% say they approve of his job performance on taxes. This is similar to a 34% approve to 47% disapprove split on the issue in September.
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/poll-trump-tax-reform/index.html

Contrary to Trump's claims it is extremely doubtful any Democrats will vote for the proposal.
 
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