Corporations Causing Slow US Growth

[Veliko]

people get bitter when they aren't treated the same for arbitrary reasons that may or may not be outside their control. why should the rich pay more? why should they be viewed as a different "class" than us? it simply creates a divide where one isn't needed.

Those poor, poor, rich people!

Won't someone please think of the rich people?

Their lives are so hard these days.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

LOL, what a smart comment. Consumer spending is majority of GDP growth/jobs. Consumers largely rely on corporations for their wages. Corporations are paying lowest wages ever. Corporations are hoarding the most profit ever.

Ever heard of deductive reasoning?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning

This is what is so frustrating. Instead of addressing the MEAT of what I said, F*** the low hanging fruit, everyone picks the dead rotting apple on the ground by turning the thread into a discussion of my minimum wage proposal. Want a specific number:FINE $10.74
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-16/u-s-minimum-wage-lower-than-in-lbj-era-needs-a-raise.html

http://inequality.org/colas-cpis-awis-14-minimum-wage/






If the federal minimum wage had been updated since 1974 using the Social Security AWI, it would now stand $10.74 an hour.

Are you going to argue that inflation adjusted $10.74 (likely hitting $11 next year) would not have upward affect on many other wages? OH NO INFLATION! Right now it is not an issue, low income people are getting creamed. Do you really HONESTLY believe this proposal would lead to runaway inflation? If so post some links as I have done.

Again, using simple LOGIC, it could be seen that I was ALSO implying that simply voluntarily paying a higher wage or giving raises would also...wait for it...HELP REVERSE A MAJOR CAUSE OF CORPORATIONS SLOWING THE ECONOMY

There, a held your hand all the way through it, do you feel better?



ARE YOU SERIOUS OR IS THIS A JOKE?

I Didn't say it was all the GOP's fault. I pointed out what ROMNEY'S SOLUTION WAS. Read his plans on his website. Obama has proposed more stimulus with surcharge on the rich that was filibustered. It is their fault when the propose no credible solutions.

Does Obama have all the answers? F NO, but he is being hog tied to the right by the GOP.

Right now we can borrow FOR FREE, Obama offered to pay for it as a freakin' bonus.

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-ce...rest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=realyield

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/13/taxes_are_costly_when_money_is_free.html

Why do I have to call out everyone individually? I know you guys are better than this, but it is like you aren't even trying to have a serious debate. If I had more time in the day to post this stuff I could have taken every single reply (I already dismantled most of them) and rip them to shreds, no wait, this is what I could to every single counter argument presented:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

I wanted to give you crap for bumping a nearly 2 week dead thread but this is one of the best, most accurate and to the point, posts I have read in this forum. AT needs more people like you.

 

[Darwin333]

Why on earth would hiring at multi-billion-dollar-profit corporations get STRONGER if their deductions (for capital expenses, for salaries, for R&D costs, for overhead) were eliminated? Why would their hiring grow if some minimum-wage guy at McDonald's paid the same tax rate as Exxon-Mobile? Why would the complexity of the tax code affect Fortune 500 companies at all when they have teams of lawyers to help them find the juiciest write-offs and widest loopholes in the tax code?

I'm really curious: Where is the cause-and-effect chain of reasoning that gets you from your premise (no-deduction, flat rate taxes) to your conclusion (the U.S. economy is unleashed)?

Stop mouthing the ideology and actually SHOW us how you get from point A to point B?

Companies don't hire based on any of that bullshit.

Companies hire because they think that the person/people they are hiring will make them more money than they cost them. Period.

 

[Darwin333]

snip

Borrowing for "free" might be beneficial if we actually paid the debt off. We don't, we simply refinance it when the bonds come due at some point in the future, if at that time the "interest rate" we pay has risen even to historical norms we will be in a fairly large bind as far as our budget goes. The real fear is that can lead to a spiral of rising interest rates if we get into to that big of a bind.

Of topic a bit, why do you suppose so many people are willing to lend us over a trillion a year at an effective negative return?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Corporations pay our politicians.

News Flash I tell ya....

 

[Atreus21]

No, its not at all. Equality is a 100% objective situation, EQUALity means that everyone has equal rights/taxes/privileges/etc.

Outcomes?

 

[sm625]

The low marginal tax rate is the root cause of this. Corporations return profits to their shareholders because the tax rates are low. This leaves less for capital investment, which leads to less growth in terms of the labor force and also productivity.

This is all a result of billions invested into think tanks and foundations for the sole purpose of enriching the rich and crushing the poor. They have even convinced most of the poor that low taxes are good. It is hard to argue against that today given all these bloated public pensions and everything the public unions have done with our tax money. But these people own those frickin unions. This country and all its prevailing ideologies, the entire political spectrum, is controlled by tax free foundation money. That is the real power center in the US, and it is still growing in strength.

Go back 50 even 100 years and you can find foundation documents clearly stating that growing public unions and lowering taxes are two important goals for cementing elite power. They are accountable to no one yet hold all the power through constant pervasive ideological conditioning. 90% of the opinions you read are generated by this cabal. If you contribute to their ends, ie if you shill for them, you make money. You get the freelance contracts. You get the cushy job with the corner office. If you attack this system, it comes together to defend itself. Much like an actual living entity would.

 

[sandorski]

Clearly more Tax Cuts would achieve nothing. Raising Minimum Wage would have numerous benefits, but most importantly would stimulate the Economy and lower the Deficit as a result.

 

[Matt1970]

Raising Minimum Wage would have numerous benefits, but most importantly would stimulate the Economy and lower the Deficit as a result.

High School kids around the country would rejoyce.

 

[MovingTarget]

High School kids around the country would rejoyce.

Yes, they would. So would single mothers, those trying to afford tuition bills, unskilled laborers, and people in all walks of life. Have you been in a retail store or restaurant lately? I assure you, if those employees aren't making minimum wage (most of them are), then they aren't making much more than a few ¢ above it. Many even have exceptions where they make less than minimum due to factoring in tips (basically relying on the generosity of others instead of an employer to make ends meat). If you think that high schoolers are the only people making minimum wage, you are either highly delusional or live in an area with an insane cost of living (large city, perhaps?). A consumer based economy cannot function if consumers cannot afford to consume.

 

[Vdubchaos]

A consumer based economy cannot function if consumers cannot afford to consume.

And we are getting there...slowly but surely.

Just have to wait for banks to stop giving loans away....and people to start defaulting.

 

[Matt1970]

Yes, they would. So would single mothers, those trying to afford tuition bills, unskilled laborers, and people in all walks of life. Have you been in a retail store or restaurant lately? I assure you, if those employees aren't making minimum wage (most of them are), then they aren't making much more than a few ¢ above it. Many even have exceptions where they make less than minimum due to factoring in tips (basically relying on the generosity of others instead of an employer to make ends meat). If you think that high schoolers are the only people making minimum wage, you are either highly delusional or live in an area with an insane cost of living (large city, perhaps?). A consumer based economy cannot function if consumers cannot afford to consume.

I have never ever made minimum wage. If you decide to work in a retail store than have at it. If you wish to make more, grab a hammer, or a paint brush and within a year you will be making twice minimum wage. Grab a lawn mower and you can make $600-$800 a week. If that kind of work is too hard or beneath you then too f-in bad.

 

[werepossum]

Companies don't hire based on any of that bullshit.

Companies hire because they think that the person/people they are hiring will make them more money than they cost them. Period.

This is incontrovertibly true, but lost on an astonishingly high percentage of our population. A poll of those under 25 would probably find the leading answer to the question of why companies hire to be because people need jobs. We're raising children who not only don't appreciate capitalism, they don't even understand how it works.

And based on this board, many of those children never grow up.

 

[chucky2]

I have never ever made minimum wage. If you decide to work in a retail store than have at it. If you wish to make more, grab a hammer, or a paint brush and within a year you will be making twice minimum wage. Grab a lawn mower and you can make $600-$800 a week. If that kind of work is too hard or beneath you then too f-in bad.

I don't think you understand: 'Those are jobs Americans just won't do.'

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by sandorski
Raising Minimum Wage would have numerous benefits, but most importantly would stimulate the Economy and lower the Deficit as a result.

High School kids around the country would rejoyce.

That is such an old Republican lie.

Do you watch Undercover Boss?

They feature employee after employee working for minimum wage supporting not just themselves but families.

That is the true reality of the America Republicans have made.

You caused this why do you not acknowledge what you have purposely designed?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Originally Posted by sandorski
Raising Minimum Wage would have numerous benefits, but most importantly would stimulate the Economy and lower the Deficit as a result.



That is such an old Republican lie.

Do you watch Undercover Boss?

They feature employee after employee working for minimum wage supporting not just themselves but families.

That is the true reality of the America Republicans have made.

You caused this why do you not acknowledge what you have purposely designed?

And the moment government forces a significant wage increase on their employers many of those same people will see themselves out of a job because the cost of their employment for many employers would be to high for them to maintain or justify. In addition those who are not laid off would have the cost of their employment become the catalyst that directly contributes to the slow but steady increase of the costs of goods and services over time in society. Thus increasing the cost of living for everyone in society, including these employees and negating any long term gains they would see from a wage hike. Hint: There is a reason why cities with the highest cost of living, highest minimum wage laws, (e.g. San Francisco) have steadily seen a decline in the population of low income minorities in their cities as more is done to help the "working poor" in regards to wage hikes or other needless regulation.

 

[sandorski]

And the moment government forces a significant wage increase on their employers many of those same people will see themselves out of a job because the cost of their employment for many employers would be to high for them to maintain or justify. In addition those who are not laid off would have the cost of their employment become the catalyst that directly contributes to the slow but steady increase of the costs of goods and services over time in society. Thus increasing the cost of living for everyone in society, including these employees and negating any long term gains they would see from a wage hike. Hint: There is a reason why cities with the highest cost of living, highest minimum wage laws, (e.g. San Francisco) have steadily seen a decline in the population of low income minorities in their cities as more is done to help the "working poor" in regards to wage hikes or other needless regulation.

Tired argument that has never bore fruit in the past, is tired.

 

[Icepick]

The sense of entitlement people are getting is reaching ridiculous proportions. This thread - no, P&N as a whole - is full of wealthy people with a strong sense of entitlement. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

 

[Jhhnn]

The sense of entitlement people are getting is reaching ridiculous proportions. This thread - no, P&N as a whole - is full of wealthy people with a strong sense of entitlement. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

From having money, and from some primal need to look down their noses at others. It's the Church Lady superior dance in a different format.

 

[Jhhnn]

And the moment government forces a significant wage increase on their employers many of those same people will see themselves out of a job because the cost of their employment for many employers would be to high for them to maintain or justify. In addition those who are not laid off would have the cost of their employment become the catalyst that directly contributes to the slow but steady increase of the costs of goods and services over time in society. Thus increasing the cost of living for everyone in society, including these employees and negating any long term gains they would see from a wage hike. Hint: There is a reason why cities with the highest cost of living, highest minimum wage laws, (e.g. San Francisco) have steadily seen a decline in the population of low income minorities in their cities as more is done to help the "working poor" in regards to wage hikes or other needless regulation.

Lame assertion remains lame assertion. San Francisco's service workers live across the bay in Oakland because the can't afford to live in San Francisco proper. It's been that way for decades. Minimum wage laws have absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski
Raising Minimum Wage would have numerous benefits, but most importantly would stimulate the Economy and lower the Deficit as a result.



That is such an old Republican lie.

Do you watch Undercover Boss?

They feature employee after employee working for minimum wage supporting not just themselves but families.

That is the true reality of the America Republicans have made.

You caused this why do you not acknowledge what you have purposely designed?

Fail.

While 2.2% of all hourly workers (hourly workers make up roughly 60 percent of the work force) earn minimum wage or less, just 1.4% of workers over the age of 25 are paid at or below the Federal minimum wage. More than half (51.2%) of minimum wage workers are between 16 and 24 years old. Another 21.2% are between 25 and 34.

Source: Department of Labor

 

[CaptainGoodnight]

The low marginal tax rate is the root cause of this. Corporations return profits to their shareholders because the tax rates are low. This leaves less for capital investment, which leads to less growth in terms of the labor force and also productivity.

Please explain how that works.

 

[werepossum]

The sense of entitlement people are getting is reaching ridiculous proportions. This thread - no, P&N as a whole - is full of wealthy people with a strong sense of entitlement. Where does this sense of entitlement come from?

Amazing how a high earner wanting to keep the lion's share of what he earns is considered entitlement but low earners wanting to have that same wealth seized and redistributed to them is not considered entitlement.

 

[TheBlackRabbit]

Fail.

Just STOP already when you are just FAILING yourself. It's like you are intentionally trying to look bad.

"According to the Economic Policy Institute, if Harkin has his way and the minimum wage was actually raised to $9.88 an hour, it would increase wages for 30 million Americans — 10 percent of the country."
http://www.npr.org/2012/07/08/156458470/raising-minimum-wage-a-help-or-harm

So what is that, about 21% of the entire workforce. Take note that is for $9.88 an hour, so 10.74 would probably up that number to 25%.

It is the same ass-backwards logic the righties use by saying the average income of the minimum wage household is often 50,000 or higher...UM MAYBE BECAUSE THEY ARE FORCED TO LIVE WITH OTHER PEOPLE JACKASSES.

Again, I shake my head and ask IS THIS INTENTIONAL? I sincerely hope it is because otherwise IQ tests mean nothing. They MUST include a category on deductive reasoning and information synthesis and weight it about 40% in the future then because some serious retardation is destroying what used to known as America.

www.google.com - Quite the Nifty tool, but dangerous in the wrong hands.

Why am I being a condescending jerk you wonder, members and lurkers? I am trying to shame people into trying to stop this nonsense.

Let me give another analogy. GOP'ers here are trying to prove Romney is the better athlete, while I am trying to prove Obama is.

I propose a 100m sprint. Obama wins by 50 meters. Now it is GOP turn.

They propose we go race to the end of next Rainbow to find a pot of gold and dancing leprechauns. I explain there is no gold or leprechauns. GOP explains that if I don't PROVE their is no pot of gold and leprechauns, they have clearly outsmarted me and Romney is the superior athlete. I send obama towards the rainbow at a leisurely pace until I prove there is no gold or leprechauns. While Obama and myself are busy proving there is no gold and leprechauns, Romney puts out attack ads saying Obama is a communist while he hits in a recliner eating filet mignon with a shredded $100 bill white wine sauce enjoying the fallout To complete the analogy the GOP, additionally, hires midgets to dress up in leprechaun costumes and erects a massive pot of gold. DNA testing must be conducted to prove that the leprechauns, are in fact, midgets in costumes.

Perfect analogy for an intellectual liberal debating against 99% of people who either:

A. Hate Obama
B. Love the GOP
C. Embrace their failed ideology because the thought of turning against a belief they have held for 30-70 years is a devastating blow to someone's ego. The blow in "ego points" goes something like this: Years*IQ (100=1). People with IQ's under 100 don't care because they are probably too stupid to understand what they are talking about either way; politics, particularly economics, can be complicated and takes dedication and open mindedness to understand.

Am I so F'ing smart or wonderful? Wonderful enough to be born into a creationist GOP household and become who I am today. For the record, I'm a 9th grade dropout because I was yanked out of the evil public schools for teaching evolution - YEAH, that household.

Sorry for Resurrection of the old threads, but I do not have the energy (primarily), more so than time, to do this more than every couple of days.

 

[dmcowen674]

Fail.

How bout you trade your riches for a $8 hr job and report back to us how you like it.